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Thread: DR. YOUNG Incomplete injury

  1. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by MADPRODUCER
    Oops, Yes im incomplete. I have sensation around my anus. I can feel the contraction when i move my sphincter. I have feeling below my waist too. Its weird cause when I tried to move any muscle group below my waist. I feel muscle movement on the inside, but the muscle don't physically move.. Whats the reason for that? Hope i made sense.

    imight thanks

    MadProducer, you just described me. I'm C-5 Inc. I have sensation everywhere. I can feel the wind blow the hair on my legs. I also think I can move muscles in my legs and I actually think they are moving a little but when I look at them nothing is moving.

  2. #12
    Those "I think there might be something there" muscle sensations might be something or nothing but you'll likely never know if you don't commit to an appropriate exercise therapy.

    Speaking for myself, it has been a long 2+ years of daily repetitions, sometimes months of no noticiable return, often wondering "have I peaked?" but not giving up. But I haven't peaked and continue to strengthen weak connections and forge new ones.

    I'm just starting to be able to free stand for 20 seconds at a time and can ambulate with the walker. Walking aside, the improvement in the general quality of life since day 1 is night and day. My underlying point though is that it is as much an exercise in patience and fortitude. It's much more than attending a week or two at the local SCI-gym, it's a lifestyle. Start today, see what happens.

  3. #13
    Whats biofeedback? Can i benefit from it?

    I have full sensation and i'm a ASIA C, I was ASIA B at the time of my accident.
    Last edited by kirkwood; 10-09-2008 at 09:35 PM.

  4. #14

    Biofeedback

    Quote Originally Posted by kirkwood
    Whats biofeedback? Can i benefit from it?

    I have full sensation and i'm a ASIA C, I was ASIA B at the time of my accident.
    kirkwood,

    Biofeedback is simply a training method that is based on providing you information concerning your muscle movements recorded with electrodes. it is more sensitive and can detect small contractions of your muscles. You then train with it, getting the electrical signals to grow until it reaches a certain criterion and then you reset that criterion to a higher level. This goes on until you "learn" how to move that muscle voluntarily. A lot of biofeedback is still more art than science and you need somebody with experience guiding you.

    Wise.

  5. #15
    I too fit into a similar category as madproducer. From the beginning I was an incomplete Asia B. I remember hearing about the 90% statistic and thinking that I fit into that category. I later learned that the statistic was referring to people who were Asia C.

    Now more than four years post, I am an Asia C incomplete and I am involved in a intensive recovery program attacking the paralysis not only with exercise but with other avenues as well. I am making tremendous progress considering how stagnant my progress was during the first three years.

    I have a lot of sensation all over my body and I can relate to the sensation of feeling like a muscle is working, but then looking down and not seeing any results. I commonly describe my overall sensation as if I am strapped down to my chair. When I try and lift my legs, it's as if something is holding them down and not allowing them to move. As my recovery continues this strapped down sensation becomes stronger and stronger. Some days I will lay in bed and work on various patterns, trying to initiate muscle movement and extreme anxiousness will come over me as my entire body begins to buzz and vibrate. An overwhelming sensation comes over me that I'm going to jump out of bed but it doesn't happen. It can be quite frustrating and inspiring at the same time.

    A comment from Alpentalic struck me when he said that trying to recover is a "lifestyle". It certainly has become that for myself, and many times I feel like throwing in the towel. But day in and day out I continue to heal myself and encourage my nerves to reconnect. It's not an easy job trying to achieve the impossible but I don't think a life is worth much if you don't chase your dreams.

  6. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by madcolin
    I too fit into a similar category as madproducer. From the beginning I was an incomplete Asia B. I remember hearing about the 90% statistic and thinking that I fit into that category. I later learned that the statistic was referring to people who were Asia C.

    Now more than four years post, I am an Asia C incomplete and I am involved in a intensive recovery program attacking the paralysis not only with exercise but with other avenues as well. I am making tremendous progress considering how stagnant my progress was during the first three years.

    I have a lot of sensation all over my body and I can relate to the sensation of feeling like a muscle is working, but then looking down and not seeing any results. I commonly describe my overall sensation as if I am strapped down to my chair. When I try and lift my legs, it's as if something is holding them down and not allowing them to move. As my recovery continues this strapped down sensation becomes stronger and stronger. Some days I will lay in bed and work on various patterns, trying to initiate muscle movement and extreme anxiousness will come over me as my entire body begins to buzz and vibrate. An overwhelming sensation comes over me that I'm going to jump out of bed but it doesn't happen. It can be quite frustrating and inspiring at the same time.

    A comment from Alpentalic struck me when he said that trying to recover is a "lifestyle". It certainly has become that for myself, and many times I feel like throwing in the towel. But day in and day out I continue to heal myself and encourage my nerves to reconnect. It's not an easy job trying to achieve the impossible but I don't think a life is worth much if you don't chase your dreams.
    At the "Summer Workshop" in Vienna, that I just attended, there was a general consensus that the injured spinal cord is a "new" nervous system and has to relearn anew how to function. The more severe the injury, the greater the relearning that is necessary. The same of course would apply to any repair, regeneration, or remyelination that occurs. This is the big challenge in front of us, what to do so maximize the function of systems that we restore.

    There was quite a lot of discussion about the beneficial effects of spasticity and how spasticity is one of the manifestations of plasticity. There were hints about how suppression of spasticity with drugs such as baclofen may be counterproductive for recovery of function. While I must say that I am not as down on baclofen as some of my colleagues, it makes sense to reduce the dose of baclofen and other anti-spasticity drugs to the minimum necessary for comfort and function.

    There is a lot of food for thought and I am digesting it slowly as the meeting closed and I headed home. I just got back last night.

    Wise.

  7. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Wise Young
    At the "Summer Workshop" in Vienna, that I just attended, there was a general consensus that the injured spinal cord is a "new" nervous system and has to relearn anew how to function. The more severe the injury, the greater the relearning that is necessary. The same of course would apply to any repair, regeneration, or remyelination that occurs. This is the big challenge in front of us, what to do so maximize the function of systems that we restore.

    There was quite a lot of discussion about the beneficial effects of spasticity and how spasticity is one of the manifestations of plasticity. There were hints about how suppression of spasticity with drugs such as baclofen may be counterproductive for recovery of function. While I must say that I am not as down on baclofen as some of my colleagues, it makes sense to reduce the dose of baclofen and other anti-spasticity drugs to the minimum necessary for comfort and function.

    There is a lot of food for thought and I am digesting it slowly as the meeting closed and I headed home. I just got back last night.

    Wise.

    I am a very very strong believer and proponent of getting off of spasm medication. I do realize that some people must medicate for safety but in my own case I've never used spasm medication. I was on medicine for nerve pain for a while and slowly got off of that. The only prescription drug I use now is ditropan and I'm hoping to get off of that in the near future.

    I'm also a firm believer in the relationship between neuro plasticity and spasticity. Much of my recovery has come back in the form of spasms and also has come in the form of reduction of spasms. The neuro plasticity-spasm relationship is especially prominent in my triceps and chest muscles. It began with extension spasms in my left arm and now my right arm as well has extension spasms. But along with the spasm is definite control over the muscle. Another interesting point is the connection between my biceps and my triceps. Many times I cannot get my triceps to fire unless I flex my bicep first. The triceps tighten as I flex my bicep which then makes it easier to extend.

    Another interesting phenomenon is when I use e-stim on my triceps in standing. With my hands attached to a bar and my knees blocked out, the firing of the triceps causes an extension spasm from the upper body all the way down to the quads. This also seems to be partially under my control as I can do mini squats under these conditions.

    Now I've also noticed a reduction of the spasms in my legs. I used to get a hip flexor spasm which simulated a step, but is now gone. This does not bother me too much as I realize that I do want spasms to eventually turn into real movement.

    It is true that much of my movement would be labeled as spasms to many doctors. But as I go forth, I'm slowly beginning to see some consistency with spasms. Some days are better than others but there is no doubt that the negative connotation of spasms should be eliminated. I do believe that spasticity should be encouraged but I also believe that one should try and train spasticity to turn into real movement. Bad habits of initiating spasms can be hard to break. They're still no doubt much to be learned about how the injured nervous system works.

    Thank you Dr. Wise for your continued effort.

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