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Thread: Embryonic stem cell discussion

  1. #121
    Senior Member kate's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DA
    politics will forever hold the sci community back... we shouldnt be democrat or republican first, we should be pro-cure first.
    so what did the Californians do right that the "sci community" failed to do?

    no politics held them back--in fact, they successfully used their political process to go around the barriers.

    that initiative --which changed their constitution-- authorized funding of $3Billion on escr. it passed with a 59.1% majority, which means that if anyone had tried to do such a thing on a national level, it would have failed, because we have to have 2/3 or the states to amend the constitution.

    and some of the hardest workers on its behalf were people with sci (Karen Miner) or whose family members have sci (Don Reed) or researchers who focus on sci (Hans Keirstead).

    it took all of that plus a guy with a lot of dough whose kid has juvenile diabetes and 2 years of effort and a lot of luck -- but they started working on their initiative LONG before it passed in 2004, and at that time there were still some people around here explaining to me that Bush would change his mind about escr after he won in 2004, when he would be free to show his moderate, sensible side at last.

    i'm so glad the citizens of Ca. didn't wait for that.

  2. #122
    Senior Member DA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lindox
    Speaking of "free passes". SO much money is devoted to AIDS research YET today there is NO cure. Just drugs to keep the person alive and the disease process under control. Sorta like insulin. People die of AIDS related problems each and every day. Also DA and his cancer cures. WELL there is NO cure for cancer either. Just treatments. And SCI is the same. Without the ever evolving antibiotics and equipment etc. life would be way shorter for so many. Scientist are human thus attack each other..ego in that business causes problems just like ego in most situations.

    The problem is SCI is so variable in animal and human when it's a natural injury. The data is all askew.
    And the scientists that are deeming MP as a worthless product KNOW this fact well maybe they don't but the care providers do.
    funny how that works. always a drug to keep you alive but never the full cure. keeping alive means to keep you paying.... a cure is only a 1 time payment..

  3. #123
    Banned adi chicago's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DA
    funny how that works. always a drug to keep you alive but never the full cure. keeping alive means to keep you paying.... a cure is only a 1 time payment..
    good one DA....
    • Dum spiro, spero.
      • Translation: "As long as I breathe, I hope."

  4. #124
    Quote Originally Posted by DA
    funny how that works. always a drug to keep you alive but never the full cure. keeping alive means to keep you paying.... a cure is only a 1 time payment..
    We don't have to take the drugs. That is our choice actually. And what would be made from actually curing SCI, AIDS and Cancer would be soooooo damn much nothing and I mean nothing could touch it. Broken people are not always paying..so that is kinda broken thinking.
    Life isn't about getting thru the storm but learning to dance in the rain.

  5. #125
    Senior Member DA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lindox
    We don't have to take the drugs. That is our choice actually. And what would be made from actually curing SCI, AIDS and Cancer would be soooooo damn much nothing and I mean nothing could touch it. Broken people are not always paying..so that is kinda broken thinking.
    my sci keeps me paying big bucks all year.

  6. #126
    Banned adi chicago's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DA
    my sci keeps me paying big bucks all year.
    since my injury 2002 i `ve spent over 70 k ....agrrrrrrrrr...
    • Dum spiro, spero.
      • Translation: "As long as I breathe, I hope."

  7. #127
    Quote Originally Posted by Wise Young
    DA, the devil is in the details.

    I am going to digress a bit and describe the spinal cord injury field and the problems that we face. For a long time, I didn't understand why the cell transplants were not working. Let me first describe the situation in the spinal cord injury field. Some 80% of the laboratories working in the field use rats. Unfortunately, we have not (in fact nobody has) successfully grown rat embryonic stem cells. So, almost all the embryonic stem cell studies in spinal cord injury involved using mouse or human embryonic stem cells in rats. Of course, when you put cells from another species into the rat, it is almost certain to be rejected. In order for the cells to survive longer than 4 weeks, scientists had to treat the animals with cyclosporin.

    We recently, while investigating the effects of lithium on stem cells, gave cyclosporin to the animals and found that the cyclosporin only blocked the effects of lithium but blocked expression of all the major neurotrophins. This is not so surprising because the brain is full of calcineurin, the enzyme that cyclosporin inhibit. Calcineurin turns on many of the nuclear factors that tell cells to grow, protect itself, or differentiate.

    It is not possible to do an HLA-matched umbilical cord blood experiment in rats because the HLA genes for rats have not been identified. Even if we know the HLA genes and could do the matching, there is no such thing as a rat umbilical cord blood bank. Believe me, we tried. So, in all our experiments with neonatal rat blood cell transplants, we had to use cyclosporin and I think that is why we did not see long-distance regeneration.

    In my opinion, this is something that is best done in humans and therefore I decided to go ahead and do it in humans rather than take 5-6 years to develop an rat cord blood bank, rat HLA-matching, and other techniques necessary to get immune-compatible cells. However, we did invest in creating an isogenic strain of GFP Fischer rats where we can transplant cells from one rat to anoother rat without immune rejection. It took us 4 years to develop this strain and we are just now starting to do experiments to test various cell transplants, combined with lithium (or growth factors), and growth inhibitor blockers (such as chondoitinase, nogo receptor protein, and nogo antibodies.

    There are many examples of disease for which there are no adequare animal model and treatments have to be tested in humans. While I have not given up on continuing to develop and work on the animal models, I didn't want this to prevent us from going to clinical trial. So, that is why I went on ahead. In my opinion, as long as the therapy is safe, there is a strong therapeutic rationale, and the treatment is feasible, we should be able to go ahead and do it.

    In China, thousands of people are being transplanted with all sorts of cells, with little or no therapeutic rationale. All the fetal cell transplants are problematical because they are not matched and are very likely to be immune-rejected within a few weeks. Indeed, this is what Hongyun Huang found with fetal olfactory ensheathing glia. He saw several levels of sensory improvement and very modest motor improvements. Places like Beike Technology are transfusing non-HLA-matched CD34+ umbilical cord blood cells. I am very skeptical that this does anything because none of the cells have any likelihood to get into the spinal cord injury site. Worse, the Beike group is not measuring what is happening to the patientts. Rigorous clinical trials are essential for showing what does not work. That is almost as important a finding that something work.

    Wise.
    Prof Young,

    I was reading your post, I have the impression that in the second paragraph, line 2, when you write: "...cyclosporin only blocked the effects of lithium but..." you meant to write: ....cyclosporin not only blocked the effects of lithium but....
    This seems to me a very important finding, so I want to be sure I got it right.

    Thank you

    Paolo

  8. #128
    Just had finish reading article "Repair Stem Cell Institute Says Stanford University's Stem Cell Study Confirms the Futility of Embryonics in Human Therapy"
    The Repair Stem Cell Institute LLC (RSCI; http://www.RepairSemCells.org) reported today that School of Medicine's recent discovery there may be limitations to the effectiveness of human therapies derived from embryonic stem cells (ESC) because the cells injected in mice stimulated the kind of immune rejection seen with transplanted organs clearly delivers a blow to proponents of embryonic stem cell research who continue to ballyhoo the promise of ESC when in effect, as the study showed, the transplanted stem cells were dead within about seven to 10 days.
    and can't to understand, it's foolish propaganda versus ESC or why they don't say the SC did'nt making from this mouse and genetically
    convenient? I only can to imagine what ECS they try to use, who is the mother of it?

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