Bite trigger pull

[forestranger52]

Does anybody know where to obtain a devise that I can bite, and in turn pull a cable and fire the trigger of a rifle?
I have looked at Be Adaptive Equipment LLC, sip and puff trigger pull.
Its too much equipment for me. Also too complicated. I like simple.
I contacted them many months ago about designing something much simpler like a bite activated product. Looks like no dice.

I can hold and aim a pellet or small caliber rifle. However with no hand function I can not hold a rifle and pull the trigger too.

Thanks,
MAC

[robeec]

what're you planning on shooting?

"...i wouldn't use a bullet
'cause a bullet's a disgrace...(BenKweller).

[DeadEye]

Hey Mac,

Several bite triggers have been designed over the years by many quads including myself. You can see some of them here:

http://residents.bowhunting.net/disabledhunters/

Nice bunch of guys at BeAdaptive but terribly over-priced IMO. I designed my bite trigger using a bicycle brake cable, a homemade wooden clothspin type device and a couple other bit's and pieces from a hobby store. A friend who's good with stuff like that put it all together with my guidance. Liability concerns really prohibit me from selling them commercially. Here's a pic of one I put on my muzzleloader. Another on my .270 is in my avatar. Let me know if you want any tips, etc.

[forestranger52]

Thanks DeadEye, I've admired the bite trigger devises designed by others on that website. I am just kind of by myself on these things. I can't get anybody to help with anything, even when I offer to pay.

People promise you everything until your home. Then everyone disappears.
I was the first guy around with a four wheel drive/or any truck. Every time someone needed a hot water heater, something moved, building materials, or a car towed, I got the call. Since I am a Carpenter also, I've built decks, sheds, remodeled bathrooms and kitchens and sided and roofed houses, all to help others.

I haven't seen anyone in three years.

Later,
MAC

[Leif]

Hey Mac,

Several bite triggers have been designed over the years by many quads including myself. You can see some of them here:

http://residents.bowhunting.net/disabledhunters/

Nice bunch of guys at BeAdaptive but terribly over-priced IMO. I designed my bite trigger using a bicycle brake cable, a homemade wooden clothspin type device and a couple other bit's and pieces from a hobby store. A friend who's good with stuff like that put it all together with my guidance. Liability concerns really prohibit me from selling them commercially. Here's a pic of one I put on my muzzleloader. Another on my .270 is in my avatar. Let me know if you want any tips, etc.
DeadEye,
I’m not a quad so I manage to pull the trigger like before, but I saw this image below at you’re link and was thinking, isn’t that one a bit overdone, or made maybe unnecessary complicated? Seems like there is some electric or electro/pneumatic operated lever that is operating the trigger by the person controlling the system by puffing the air into the control system. Works probably fine though, still a bit complicated I would think, a bit expensive too I would recon.

http://residents.bowhunting.net/disabledhunters/03.jpg

Just and idea - I understand you’re bite trigger system works fine but couldn’t it also have been made like this (especially when shooting rifles that can produce some recoil); say if one took a thin rubber hose at a suitable length and took two rubber balloons and connected them to each end to the hose and made it a sealed system. Then one of the rubber balloons could be put inside the trigger guard in front of the trigger, then by biting on the other rubber balloon at the other end of the hose one would create an overpressure inside the sealed system making the rubber balloon mounted inside the trigger guard to inflate a little pushing the trigger making the rifle to fire – if you know what I mean here. The whole set-up then also could be calibrated by adjusting the trigger adjustments screw if necessary, safe for the teeth’s as well if shooting heavier calibre rifles; cheap and simple to make too I would recon, -what do you think? If you like the idea feel free to test it and use it. Or maybe there are similar systems out there, which I wouldn’t know. Anyway, just an idea.

[stlyin moe]

"Just and idea - I understand you’re bite trigger system works fine but couldn’t it also have been made like this (especially when shooting rifles that can produce some recoil); say if one took a thin rubber hose at a suitable length and took two rubber balloons and connected them to each end to the hose and made it a sealed system."

While this is a good idea it's too risky. You'd either need a very light trigger or a very heavy balloon, plus it's not as predictable a release with the variability of the tension within the balloons due to temp.

Cable or hydraulic is the way to go.

Dead Eye's system looks like it works well as it's flexible. The mouthpiece appears to move front & rear enough that recoil isn't going to jam it down your throat.

I could see adding a football or boxer's mouthpiece to make sure it doesn't get lodged in your lungs...lol Other than that it appears to be a very good system to me as is...

[Leif]

Could be Stlyin Moe but I’m not sure. The balloon one would bite on would be the size of a plum I would guess, thus making one having to bite into it quite a bit for the trigger to activate, thus not sure some variations in temp necessarily either would play to big a role if not used in more extreme conditions, in those it could, but for the average hunter/shooter maybe not. The balloon system could also give a nice squeeze. And if being a bit sophisticated one could also use a gas not as sensitive as air to temp variations inside the system as well. Well, like I said, just some ideas I got here by looking at the links, haven’t’ given it to much thinking. And for the balloons I was thinking of some kind of material and consistence like on those old horns you know, sometimes installed on old motorcycles.

[stlyin moe]

Could be Stlyin Moe but I’m not sure. The balloon one would bite on would be the size of a plum I would guess, thus making one having to bite into it quite a bit for the trigger to activate, thus not sure some variations in temp necessarily either would play to big a role if not used in more extreme conditions, in those it could, but for the average hunter/shooter maybe not. The balloon system could also give a nice squeeze. And if being a bit sophisticated one could also use a gas not as sensitive as air to temp variations inside the system as well. Well, like I said, just some ideas I got here by looking at the links, haven’t’ given it to much thinking. And for the balloons I was thinking of some kind of material and consistence like on those old horns you know, sometimes installed on old motorcycles.


Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying it's a bad idea. I'm just saying I think there's less opportunity for accidental discharge and more consistant actuation with Dead Eye's setup...

[Leif]

No no Stlyin Moe, I don’t get you wrong at all, was only thinking of other simple ways it might have been possible to do it. I think Dead Eye’s set-up looks very good and in fact it must be since he has used it quite a lot if I understand correctly.

[DeadEye]

Leif, too big of a rush heading out the door now. I'll reply later today but an idea similar to yourswas considered.

[Leif]

Have a nice trip. I was thinking about something like this. Maybe a dead-end road but it would have been fun to test something like it; cause if it could work it would have been very cheap. Interesting topic you started here.

Principle sketch.

[DeadEye]

Leif,

Sorry for the slow reply. I actually wrote a lengthy reply last night only to have my power blink and completely lost everything. After that, I opted for a martini instead of re-typing.

Your bulb design was actually considered when we were first working on this, as well as the bite-trigger design(BT), and using a small solenoid. I completely agree with you on your earlier comments about the commercial monstrosities out there now, overkill and over priced. Keeping the design small, simple, safe and affordable should be the goal.

The problems with the bulb design was 1) finding the appropriate size and strength bulb to support pushing the trigger, 2) how to control the flow of the air, gas, fluid in the bite bulb rather than it remaining in the trigger bulb after firing so no pressure is on the trigger.

We nixed the solenoid design because as much as we searched 5 years ago, we could not find a solenoid small enough to fit inside the trigger guard. There very well might be one out there now that fit's the bill.

We ended up going with the BT. I've had mine on my Rem. .270 and Knight muzzleloader for 3-4 years each and haven't needed to re-adjust the tension but once on my Knight. There's enough slack in the cable mount so recoil doesn't bother you. I also make sure to position the BT on the right side of my mouth between the molars.

Now I shoot most of my guns simply by pulling back on my left hand index finger while secured in the gun rest. The rest holds it securely enough that I can pull back on the trigger without moving off target. The rest also absorbs a lot of the recoil. I went shooting yesterday to confirm my zero using my CVA Optima Pro .50 cal muzzleloader using 150 grains of trip 7's, and my nasty little Rem. model 7 7mm-08. The 7-08 is really small and lightweight and kicks like a small donkey. The .50 cal. kicks like his daddy. Anyway, using the rest I'm able to shoulder it with my right arm and pull the trigger with my left hand and am still able to handle the recoil.

Sooo, you're the engineer in this group so design us quads a nice, safe, simple, and affordable (or do it yourself) bite type trigger mechanism. I'm always looking for improvements and especially for the higher quads that can't pull the trigger using their hands.

[Brino]

Take a look at this link. HySkore makes a trigger to isolate all contact with the gun for accuracy. Its $20 from Cabelas. You could probably also rig it for yourself to bite by reducing the fluid in the sending syringe. Or get the suppl0iesnext Dr.visit and make one.

http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templates/links/link.jsp?id=0024152226084a&type=product&cmCat=search&returnPage=search-results1.jsp&QueryText=trigger&N=4887&Ntk=Products&Ntx=mode+matchall&Nty=1&Ntt=trigger&noImage=0

[sheriandjr]

i have heard of a company around grand rapids michigan they may be able to help but i can't remember their name or website....i'll ask my hubbie and post it later...unless you have already contacted them

[forestranger52]

No, I haven't contacted anyone in Michigan. Except my mother in law but she was too drunk to talk.
Thanks,
MAC

[who_farted]

hey dead eye is that hard to bite? it seems like it would brake the clothes pin because most triggers require a couple pounds of pull.

[geargrind]

This isn't a simple solution, and needs reworked for weight... but does use a "solenoid" for the trigger, and another for the safety. It's a standard (and very cheap) 12v automotive door lock actuator that provides about 10 lbs pull.
In a different setup, one or both could be mounted to the rifle stock:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/wheeltracks/sets/72157594156935851/

[stlyin moe]

This isn't a simple solution, and needs reworked for weight... but does use a "solenoid" for the trigger, and another for the safety. It's a standard (and very cheap) 12v automotive door lock actuator that provides about 10 lbs pull.
In a different setup, one or both could be mounted to the rifle stock:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/wheeltracks/sets/72157594156935851/


That's a really sweet setup you have there. Is that a mini 14 or a mini 30?

[geargrind]

Thanks, the other guy in the picture is a good friend who flew across the country and spent a week fitting all the parts together that he had pre-fabricated ahead of time. We had worked back and forth online on the design, and he bought some of the parts, and I bought some of the others, and we put them together and tested them in a week. On the improvements, I got the parts and another friend made those modifications a different afternoon (a couple of years later). My thumb is no longer strong enough to operate the microswitch setup that I have in the pictures, so I have been trying the last few years to get someone to help put together a different set of microswitches that I can use. I also need to get a rainproofing bag made for the electronics to slip over everything, because the relays and stuff in the control box is totally exposed to the weather.:nono:

You pegged it -- it's a Mini-30, which is really all the gun the mount can handle at the moment. Where the Mini's aluminum mount is attached to the swivel isn't that strong (we used pre-made parts that were handy, and could be adapted). I'd eventually like to rework that part to be able to handle a 12 ga slug gun, and work in an electric or air system to work a pump action.

A really neat major rework would be to both make it much lighter, and make it much faster and easier to put together. Right now, it takes 30-45 minutes to put together, during which you literally have to watch the deer walking by wondering what in the world that funny human is up to.:agog:
That's a really sweet setup you have there. Is that a mini 14 or a mini 30?

[geargrind]

Shootin Amat-Chair
http://www.islandterrace.com/J1.html

This is Rifle Mount #1, which was strictly for introducing me to the sport. Until the two days of practice that I got to have, I had never fired a shot in my life.

It didn't stay put steady in the leg pad mounts that were on the side of the chair. They tended to slip on the square aluminum rods, so every shot you fired would rock it back a little farther, so it helped to be able to fire the first two shots to get it rocked back about as far as it was going to go. The most disconcerting thing I found was the wind on the second day -- it was blowing hard enough that it kept rocking the seat on the chair, throwing my aim off.:(

I don't have a close-up of the electrical trigger, but this is how it was made: it was a simple clothespin. Not the all-wood type, but the kind with a spring. I can't remember if we re-worked the spring so that it wouldn't squeeze, or if we just substituted a piece of pencil at the hinge, but I think we went with the spring that was already there. On one end, we put in two small machine screws, one for each piece of the clothespin. The bolt part of both faced out, so that the rounded heads of the screws could make a sort of mechanical relay contact. 12V went to one screw, and ground to the other. The other end of the clothespin had rubber bands wrapped around it to keep the contacts at the 12V end apart. Squeeze the 12V end together, and it would apply power to the trigger actuator, and you've just fired a shot. Change the amount of rubber band wraps to adjust your trigger "pull."

[forestranger52]

Thanks folks.
Thats quite the mount you have fabricated. I have a OmegaTrac PC also.
Here is a site that shows a number of user fabricated rifle and crossbow mounts.

http://residents.bowhunting.net/DisabledHunters/dis-hunters-guns2.html

[geargrind]

We looked at those (a lot of neat stuff there) and a few others when we started the project. Couldn't afford the commercial stuff, and couldn't use the other homemade solutions...:)
Here is a site that shows a number of user fabricated rifle and crossbow mounts.

http://residents.bowhunting.net/DisabledHunters/dis-hunters-guns2.html

[forestranger52]

I would like to have one of the rifle mounts that attaches to a plate that is positioned under the seat pan of my Power chair. I could put the plate in before I got into my chair and would only have to put up the rifle mount when I was actually in the field in a shooting position. Maybe someday.