Is the Holy Bible for real

[Tufelhunden]

And you base this on? You've never heard of nonlinear equations or systems?


I think he meant string theory.

[Adino]

What is eternal but God's word. The sun dies and the galaxy is black. Where will the light shine in the after life. All evolurtion was created says the Holy Bible. Many people saw the miracles in the East many years ago. How can God not love His creation?

[Adino]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiger Racing
And you base this on? You've never heard of nonlinear equations or systems?


I think he meant string theory.
No, I do not believe in string theory but I could be mistaken if I am wrong. Too many chiefs (dimensions) and not enough indians (relativity). But maybe generally yes.

[Le Type Français]

What is eternal but God's word. The sun dies and the galaxy is black. Where will the light shine in the after life. All evolurtion was created says the Holy Bible. Many people saw the miracles in the East many years ago. How can God not love His creation?

Again, the Word of God is not the Bible. The Word of God is not a book, a translation, a transliteration, or a manuscript. The Logos of God is the Christ.

[Adino]

Again, the Word of God is not the Bible. The Word of God is not a book, a translation, a transliteration, or a manuscript. The Logos of God is the Christ.

I didn't say God wrote the Holy Bible but still yet, there are God's words written in it.

[Juke_spin]

What is eternal but God's word. The sun dies and the galaxy is black. Where will the light shine in the after life. All evolurtion was created says the Holy Bible. Many people saw the miracles in the East many years ago. How can God not love His creation?
One after another of your posts posits the same supposed support of a deistically created cosmos-earth-man. You consistently ignore that moving a creation point from the material sphere to a deity creates more problems with explaining the origins of such a being than what it is being claimed to have created.http://www.sitcomsonline.com/boards/images/smilies/doh.gif Hello.

You choose to believe that a book created by men contains ultimate truth and this is something you may do but that belief is based on faith and nothing more. And you choose not to believe the conclusions of science, a tool developed by men to help us understand the cosmos-earth-man.

[Juke_spin]

I didn't say God wrote the Holy Bible but still yet, there are God's words written in it.
Yes, it's clear that you believe this which is to say that you have faith that it is. You cannot know it is without having both heard god speaking the words and then seen them written exactely so in the bible. Of course you'd have to had understanding of the Hebrew in which they were uttered and then verified that they'ed been translated accuratley in the bible.:thinking:

[Adino]

So what's the problem juke. I believe science is self explanatory except for how it got started. It's stable even though mankind doesn't understand it very well. That's where the Holy Bible doesn't seem to fall short. The word of God has been documented by people who have witnessed these things first hand. It's written and unerstandable that even a child can write them.
:eureka:

[Le Type Français]

Juke,

You and I will disagree on our faiths, but I do agree with you completely that the existence of God and the divinity of Jesus Christ are matters of faith. In my view, science and religion both haven't fully answered the question of life and the truth lies in the middle, neither one excluding the other.

[Le Type Français]

The word of God has been documented by people who have witnessed these things first hand. It's written and unerstandable that even a child can write them.
:eureka:

Is that so? Why are there thousands of denominations all ascribing to different beliefs? The Bible is not elementary; it's a plethora of literary classes. Much is lost in translation and history also.

[Tufelhunden]

No, I do not believe in string theory but I could be mistaken if I am wrong. Too many chiefs (dimensions) and not enough indians (relativity). But maybe generally yes.

String theory has just as much credence as the mythology you've been spewing all over this thread. I am not sure what you mean by too many chiefs and not enough indians in relation to string theory.

[alpentalic]

Well, if you want to call feeding those who are hungry for the word of God evangelizing, then so it is. Well Adino, sounds like you've filled 'em up...

[Tufelhunden]

This is not meant as a wrench thrown at this thread. People have every absolute right to believe whatever they want as to what avenue of approach they take as far as a belief system in the origins of existence. I think the problem is that those who favor more scientific rigor become frustrated when confronted by some of the arguments proposed by those who favor a more spiritual system of origination.

The issue is some of us have been trained in the classical scientific approach in experimentation to build knowledge. Observation leads to theories which leads to the empirical testing of the theories which leads to acceptance or rejection of those theories, all the while of which the theories keep their integrity within some readily accepted and already-established framework.

Further, those in the scientific community become more frustrated when faced with an administration such as ours, which rather than promote scientific exploration, hinders it (as exemplified by the de-fanging of our Surgeon General).

There is a reason that this argument propogates itself even to this very day.

But as I stated earlier, individuals have every right to participate in any belief system they wish. The wishful thinking comes into the issue of the seperation of church and state, and to what degree the public and the politicians wish to risk one for the other, as in this scientific age, one comes at the opportunity cost of the other.

[Adino]

The law is based on morals. What seems right may not seem right yesterday are tomorrow. But the Bible is more than a law. It's truth. Science is not our only answer is what I may be trying to say.

[Tiger Racing]

the Bible is more than a law. It's truth.
The bible may be your "truth", but I'm quite certain that it is not Truth.

C.

[Adino]

Orginally Posted by Alpentalic

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adino
Well, if you want to call feeding those who are hungry for the word of God evangelizing, then so it is.


Well Adino, sounds like you've filled 'em up...


Yes, the Holy Bible is very real .

[Adino]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adino
the Bible is more than a law. It's truth.


The bible may be your "truth", but I'm quite certain that it is not Truth.

C.

And do you think the truth cares what you think is truth?

[Adino]

If the poll is any indication of the general public, then it looks like there is much doubt towards the bible. Only one in six believe in the absolute authority of the bible. About half belief the bible is not real. This is really depressing to think as much as 50% could be wrong.

[Tiger Racing]

And do you think the truth cares what you think is truth?
Back atcha.

"Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored." ~ Aldous Huxley

"Many people would rather die than think; in fact, most do." ~ Bertrand Russell

"Incomprehensible? But because you cannnot understand a thing, it does not cease to exist." ~ Blaise Pascal, Pensés

"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." ~ Daniel Patrick Moynihan

C

[JimmyMack]

Back atcha.

"Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored." ~ Aldous Huxley

"Many people would rather die than think; in fact, most do." ~ Bertrand Russell

"Incomprehensible? But because you cannnot understand a thing, it does not cease to exist." ~ Blaise Pascal, Pensés

"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." ~ Daniel Patrick Moynihan

C

Intersting mix 2 catholics and 2 atheists

JimmyMack

[Adino]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adino
And do you think the truth cares what you think is truth?

Back atcha.

"Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored." ~ Aldous Huxley

"Many people would rather die than think; in fact, most do." ~ Bertrand Russell

"Incomprehensible? But because you cannnot understand a thing, it does not cease to exist." ~ Blaise Pascal, Pensés

"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." ~ Daniel Patrick Moynihan

C


Tiger,


This was my reponse to your response because you seemed so ashurd that the Holy Bible was NOT the truth. How can you be sure the truth cares or doesn't care, especially if not quoting the Holy Bible. What does your perception of truth have that isn't in the bible.

[Tiger Racing]

Intersting mix 2 catholics and 2 atheists
And I am neither one of those things. :)

C.

[Le Type Français]

Adino and TR,

I think you should just concede that both set of your beliefs are a matter of faith. Neither one of you will convince the other.

[Adino]

Tiger did give credit to the Song of Solomon a few few posts back. :applaud:

Son 8:5 Who is this that cometh up from the wilderness, leaning upon her beloved? I raised thee up under the apple tree: there thy mother brought thee forth: there she brought thee forth that bare thee.
Son 8:6 Set me as a seal upon thine heart, as a seal upon thine arm: for love is strong as death; jealousy is cruel as the grave: the coals thereof are coals of fire, which hath a most vehement flame.
Son 8:7 Many waters cannot quench love, neither can the floods drown it: if a man would give all the substance of his house for love, it would utterly be contemned


Only 65 more books to go.

[Juke_spin]

Adino

You ran this thread to enlighten us? But you have demonstrated a full lack of interest in or knowledge of evolutionary theory. You choose to lead a faith based life and facts will not be allowed to impinge. But you have further demonstrated a near complete lack of understanding of the history of the genesis of the bible, hence your claims of insight therefrom are specious, at least.

I'm currious if, when you encounter words you're unfamiliar with, you make use of an English dictionary to bring them within your ken and improve your vocabulary - but I'll bet you do not.

So, from a base of knowing/understanding very little and having negligible interest in improving that situation you are here to enlighten the rest of us. Nice go.

[Le Type Français]

Tiger did give credit to the Song of Solomon a few few posts back. :applaud:

Only 65 more books to go.

I hate religious attitudes like this. Such arrogance masking as humility.

Even many hardcore atheists acknowledge the Bible as an excellent piece of literature.

[Adino]

Juke,


The kindgom of heaven is not meet & drink but rather joy in the holy ghost. The spirit is our guide. I made friends. People seem to give their 2 cents. Shewing me your pennies is nice. I will say yoir rich in this world but if you want my advice, money, looks, and brains does not get you into heaven,

[Tiger Racing]

I think you should just concede that both set of your beliefs are a matter of faith. Neither one of you will convince the other. Couple of problems with that.

1. My religion is NOT a "matter of faith".

2. I don't believe that it is impossible to influence another's beliefs or opinions.
2a. Even if one side cannot change or influence the other, both sides can still learn something by sharing their beliefs and opinions. Especially if they are willing to share how they came to hold their various beliefs.

Tiger did give credit to the Song of Solomon a few few posts back.
Yup. One of the great erotic poems ever written. I wouldn't let kids read that bible of yours. Too much sex and violence.

C.

[Le Type Français]

1. My religion is NOT a "matter of faith".

C.

How can you make such a claim? You have never proven to anyone your gods and goddesses exist, particularly in the way you believe in them as well.

[Tiger Racing]

How can you make such a claim? You have never proven to anyone your gods and goddesses exist, particularly in the way you believe in them as well. I haven't tried to prove to you or anyone else here that the gods exist, nor have I tried to convince you of anything else regarding my religion. I have merely shared what I know. When I say that my religion is not based on faith, I mean that. It is based on facts and logic and actual experience, not hopes or assumptions or wishful dreams. I have the proof that I need in order to follow this path. There is no need for me to try to change yours. The gods will do what they will.

C.

[Le Type Français]

It is based on facts and logic and actual experience, not hopes or assumptions or wishful dreams.

C.

Most Evangelists would say that same thing. That is why I believe religious tolerance and inclusion is very important to humanity.

[Tiger Racing]

Most Evangelists would say that same thing.
No they don't! And, again, I am not envagelizing. Your implication is seriously misplaced.

That is why I believe religious tolerance and inclusion is very important to humanity. Tolerance is extremely important and I have spent as much time advocating for religious freedom as I have for disability issues. Both are important to me.

C.

[Juke_spin]

Juke,


The kindgom of heaven is not meet & drink but rather joy in the holy ghost. The spirit is our guide. I made friends. People seem to give their 2 cents. Shewing me your pennies is nice. I will say yoir rich in this world but if you want my advice, money, looks, and brains does not get you into heaven,
Hum, You claim to know about the "kingdom of heaven" I imagine you've gained your heavenly knowledge from passages in the bible?

Hows about filling us in of the beauties and pleasures of "the kingdom of heaven" you know, provide a sort of a "hitchhikers guide to the dimension of the post-death christian itinerary".

Hows about it; tempt the pagans among us - thrall us with your acumen.

[Tufelhunden]

I haven't tried to prove to you or anyone else here that the gods exist, nor have I tried to convince you of anything else regarding my religion. I have merely shared what I know. I have the proof that I need in order to follow this path. There is no need for me to try to change yours.

C.

I wish all "religious" individuals followed the same mantra as you.

By the way, Adino, people like you are the reason people like me do not take you or your belief system seriously.

[Leif]

Juke,


The kindgom of heaven is not meet & drink but rather joy in the holy ghost. The spirit is our guide. I made friends. People seem to give their 2 cents. Shewing me your pennies is nice. I will say yoir rich in this world but if you want my advice, money, looks, and brains does not get you into heaven,
So everything is remote controlled then, noting to fear then I guess :thumbsup: But what happened to free will?

[Juke_spin]

So everything is remote controlled then, noting to fear then I guess :thumbsup: But what happened to free will?
LooseLeif, Humm, if you'er going to compete for the OP's responses can you at least choose questions more likely to generate an entertaining one? Like mine?:thinking::nono::p

Really!

[IanTPoulter]

Juke,


The kindgom of heaven is not meet & drink but rather joy in the holy ghost. The spirit is our guide. I made friends. People seem to give their 2 cents. Shewing me your pennies is nice. I will say yoir rich in this world but if you want my advice, money, looks, and brains does not get you into heaven,
Adino, do you take communion? If not what is your opinion of this ritual?

[IanTPoulter]

I haven't tried to prove to you or anyone else here that the gods exist, nor have I tried to convince you of anything else regarding my religion. I have merely shared what I know. When I say that my religion is not based on faith, I mean that. It is based on facts and logic and actual experience, not hopes or assumptions or wishful dreams. I have the proof that I need in order to follow this path. There is no need for me to try to change yours. The gods will do what they will.

C.
Fair enough, so could you explain the facts, logic and experience behind your beliefs ?

[Leif]

LooseLeif, Humm, if you'er going to compete for the OP's responses can you at least choose questions more likely to generate an entertaining one? Like mine?:thinking::nono::p

Really!
What’s wrong with you today (or any day for that matter :D ) Juke? - Guess free will is not up you’re alley then but let me remind some here what an overwhelming of the majority of the fairytale people believe in here on this earth. No, I don’t talk about virgin birth; by the way a heroic strategy to evade the law, which otherwise required stoning of woman’s whom was pregnant with others than her fiancé. I’m of course talking about the Holy Ghost Adino refers too. A complete incomprehensible figure which according to one of the earths most widespread religions, Christianity, hovered over the waters even back then when Jesus spiritual father “God” was creating the world in six days - The Holy Ghost must not be confused by a ghost as such, because the Holy Ghost materialises itself in fact preferably as tongs of fire and thereby also is accompanied by speaking in tongues, for those who can things like this, consequently the Pentecostalists. Which again means that the Pentecostalists is dedicated to the Holy Ghost without me by this being able to say if the Holy Ghost or the Pentecostalists are on the right track. - The Holy Ghost is real hard to understand, regardless if “he” appears as a middleman between man and God, as tongs of fire or something else omnipresent. Maybe you can take it a bit further to enlighten us when it comes to the Holy Ghost point in Adinons reply to you?

[Juke_spin]

What’s wrong with you today (or any day for that matter :D ) Juke? - Guess free will is not up you’re alley then but let me remind some here what an overwhelming of the majority of the fairytale people believe in here on this earth. No, I don’t talk about virgin birth; by the way a heroic strategy to evade the law, which otherwise required stoning of woman’s whom was pregnant with others than her fiancé. I’m of course talking about the Holy Ghost Adino refers too. A complete incomprehensible figure which according to one of the earths most widespread religions, Christianity, hovered over the waters even back then when Jesus spiritual father “God” was creating the world in six days - The Holy Ghost must not be confused by a ghost as such, because the Holy Ghost materialises itself in fact preferably as tongs of fire and thereby also is accompanied by speaking in tongues, for those who can things like this, consequently the Pentecostalists. Which again means that the Pentecostalists is dedicated to the Holy Ghost without me by this being able to say if the Holy Ghost or the Pentecostalists are on the right track. - The Holy Ghost is real hard to understand, regardless if “he” appears as a middleman between man and God, as tongs of fire or something else omnipresent. Maybe you can take it a bit further to enlighten us when it comes to the Holy Ghost point in Adinons reply to you?
First: What's wrong with me today, etc., etc.? Nothing in particullar - ssdd - same shit different day. LOL What's wrong that I talk issue with you post/question to Adino is that you're doing one of the things I did repeatedly earlier in this thread; you're not remaining aware of whom you addressing with you "holy ghost" question - and you're heaping it on top of my more aware "heaven" question.

Adino has made it abundantly clear that he's not up to snuff where theological hair-splitting/Thomas Aquinas type questions/replys are concerned. Hello! Am I getting through to you? Yet? All you can do by posing such Qs to Adino is a) annoy/confuse him or b) get your Q answered by another, more therologically versed, member in something like a satisfactory manner.:doh::p:mega:

Anywho, are you sufficiently enamored of Christianity that the exploration of the nature of the holy ghost seems a satisfying realm?:thinking: Hello.:doh::rolleyes:

BTW, holy ghost=free will?

[Adino]

Ian,

Well, I was just thinking a couple of days back about what I would do as a minister who has a different set of beliefs as someone else. I say set of beliefs because I am a believer that people go thru changes in life. I went thru some changes just in the last 7 years actually. My tolerance is much easier in many areas and some areas I tend to try not being slack. One of the things that really changed me the most was my brother. Maybe it was not my fault but I would brush off things that my brother was doing. I would try to justify his sins and being a sin broker is what I was doing in affect. Maybe my brother could have done better or even worse had I used a little better approach. So a mediator is ok but you have to really be sharp about it. Some things just don't float well though, regardless of how much one can go.


Now, I do believe there may be a time for everything, which doesn't mean that everything is automatic as leaf asked earlier. I think people have their own accesable roads to their beliefs. Some roads are very common. But, communion in the traditional sense can have two main effects. One positive and one negative. Negative is just the mediation effect and not a wrong thing. Something wrong in my book would be neutral. Sin neutralizes the soul like a paralysis. We are unsure if things are right when we are in a negative state, not that it's wrong. And then there's the positive. Communion in this case can serve as confidence for many things and is for making a statement of faith. Statements should be done often enough not to become complacent for yourself. Should not give others the impression that sin is a very nice thing to cuddle up with. Sin will try it's best to take the life out of faith.

[Adino]

Originally Posted by Juke_spin

Maybe you can take it a bit further to enlighten us when it comes to the Holy Ghost point in Adinons reply to you?

First: What's wrong with me today, etc.,

Juke,

You just upset because we don't turn the Holy Bible into a impossible evolution thread. God forbid that someone chooses salvation instead oif being enslaved by the world. Do you honestly think evolution will fully be understood without help from God word.

[Adino]

Originally Posted by Juke_spin

What's wrong that I talk issue with you post/question to Adino is that you're doing one of the things I did repeatedly earlier in this thread; you're not remaining aware of whom you addressing with you "holy ghost" question - and you're heaping it on top of my more aware "heaven" question.

Adino has made it abundantly clear that he's not up to snuff where theological hair-splitting/Thomas Aquinas type questions/replys are concerned. Hello! Am I getting through to you? Yet? All you can do by posing such Qs to Adino is a) annoy/confuse him or b) get your Q answered by another, more therologically versed, member in something like a satisfactory manner.:doh::p:mega:

Anywho, are you sufficiently enamored of Christianity that the exploration of the nature of the holy ghost seems a satisfying realm?:thinking: Hello.:doh::rolleyes:

BTW, holy ghost=free will?



Leif,


You are very aware indeed, so don't let Juke_spin's sharade distract you. Actully, I'll lead off while Juke gets more butter. He's probably 600 lbs and ..

ok, almost got sucked in by the glare off all that shiny butter on his three chins.



Mat 3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:
Mat 3:12 Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.
Mat 3:13 Then cometh Jesus from Galilee to Jordan unto John, to be baptized of him.
Mat 3:14 But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me?

I would say that free will is a trait of the Holy Ghost but to say it'[s "free will" as Juke says is a flimsy definition. Jesus used the power of the Goly Ghost to defeat the world. The way Jesus dies this is that He uses it's knowledge. This in turn created free will. Before the Holy Ghost came, there was a world void of true life. Darkness crept about freely because it knew at the end of the day that it would win. It was well aware of it's prisoners.

God's word is light and it's agent is knowledge in the Holy Ghost. Those who have God's word has assurance that the world only has a limited hold of them. True, some feel freerer than others. Liberty does always pay a price. It will always cost us to live in this world. But don't forget that the blood of Jesus Christ can cover the darkness we create or have in our lives.

But how things move is a mystery and not as Juke writes. He's not that astute about evolution, ;) afterall.

[Juke_spin]

Leif,

You are very aware indeed, so don't let Juke_spin's sharade distract you. Actully, I'll lead off while Juke gets more butter. He's probably 600 lbs and ..

ok, almost got sucked in by the glare off all that shiny butter on his three chins.

I would say that free will is a trait of the Holy Ghost but to say it'[s "free will" as Juke says is a flimsy definition. Jesus used the power of the Goly Ghost to defeat the world.
But how things move is a mystery and not as Juke writes. He's not that astute about evolution, ;) afterall.
I knew that you'd realize there were insults, or maybe just one, in my last posted comments and I see you have and have tried to return the compliment. But where I based my surmise about your knowledge and debating skills squarely on your posttoasties here, you've donned multilple clergical garments and wound up foaming at the mouth. Your claims are unsupported by anything but some wild fantasises but at least in making them you've produced some entertainment.

So, curriously enough, we seem to share a disgust with fatties, i.e. those who've "blimped out", but you're wrong about my weight which is within what's medically considered normal. Sorry, that's the deal even though I consider myself overweght (I haven't been weighed in years so I can't say exactly) as I'm wearing pants a bit larger in the gut than I got by with most of my life. But my chairs seat is just seventeen inches across and, since I'm not slopping over it, I can't qualify myself as blimped.:p Now if you've got substantiation (that's "proof" for those without the sense to use a dictionary) that I'm sporting triple chins it would behove you and amuse all for you to bring it on. No? Didn't think so.

There's the matter of your level of literacy that needs elucidation now. When someone writes "BTW, holy ghost=free will?", as I did, it's a giant leap into iliteracy to rejoin that they've made a statement. The question mark signifies the tentativeness and my address to Leif that I'm asking for clarification.

If you're a minister I grieve for your congregation as you must bore all but the dullest of the assembly. But maybe you've got some offsetting charm that I'm unaware of, something you could advance here to suggest to the CC readership that exposure to you in-the-flesh would be less than boring, revolting or comical. I've got to doubt it though; your resourcefulness has been plumbed and we're in the shallows.:p:D

[IanTPoulter]

Ian,

Well, I was just thinking a couple of days back about what I would do as a minister who has a different set of beliefs as someone else. I say set of beliefs because I am a believer that people go thru changes in life. I went thru some changes just in the last 7 years actually. My tolerance is much easier in many areas and some areas I tend to try not being slack. One of the things that really changed me the most was my brother. Maybe it was not my fault but I would brush off things that my brother was doing. I would try to justify his sins and being a sin broker is what I was doing in affect. Maybe my brother could have done better or even worse had I used a little better approach. So a mediator is ok but you have to really be sharp about it. Some things just don't float well though, regardless of how much one can go.


Now, I do believe there may be a time for everything, which doesn't mean that everything is automatic as leaf asked earlier. I think people have their own accesable roads to their beliefs. Some roads are very common. But, communion in the traditional sense can have two main effects. One positive and one negative. Negative is just the mediation effect and not a wrong thing. Something wrong in my book would be neutral. Sin neutralizes the soul like a paralysis. We are unsure if things are right when we are in a negative state, not that it's wrong. And then there's the positive. Communion in this case can serve as confidence for many things and is for making a statement of faith. Statements should be done often enough not to become complacent for yourself. Should not give others the impression that sin is a very nice thing to cuddle up with. Sin will try it's best to take the life out of faith.
I wonder if you could see where Im going with this and thats why you dodged the question.

[alpentalic]

Alright! another attempt at belittlement. Typical pattern....insult, poke, incite untill someone defends themselves and then comeback with a childish retort you consider to be the final word. Maybe if you'd finished high school you'd have learned to get over your need to be the perceived coolest one in the thread. Paraphrasing an author that you've read does not a scholar make, where did the Prof. credentials come from again? School of comraderie, oh yeah I know that one. I stand by that, despite the insults and all, I feel sorry for you.

Adino, you're not shallow at all - A CC forum is nearly impossible to have a meaningful conversation in. You stick by your faith and would likely be better represented in person. Don't let one person think they speak for all CC readership, a very shallow insult. Love , pray for and forgive I'm sure you might say...

[IanTPoulter]

I dont think Adinos shallow but he did dodge my question.

[Adino]

I wonder if you could see where Im going with this and thats why you dodged the question.


I thought I answered the question. What communion are you referring too then, may I ask. I approached what I consider the Holy Ghost meant in communing it's power. But if your speaking about communing over sacrileges, as in maybe the Catholic tradition, then I gave an example of my own cyber version of it. Keeping things holy is taking on new dimensions here it seems. Is it trashy. Yes in a way. But were the bottom classes of society with our handicaps. When in Rome, do as the Romans is really a becoming a night mare.

[alpentalic]

I dont think Adinos shallow but he did dodge my question. Ian - sorry my man, that wasn't directed at you....

[Juke_spin]

Ian - sorry my man, that wasn't directed at you....
I was unsure as well but he didn't.:D

"take as many cheap shots as you want..."

The boy likes to fester, right Fester? You got it, out of dutuful CC camaraderie-ship I hereby dub you "Fester".:p Or alpenfester, as the spirit moves.:D

YOU can http://www.sitcomsonline.com/boards/images/smilies/drummer.gif... take as many cheap shots as you like.http://www.sitcomsonline.com/boards/images/smilies/thanx.gif

[Adino]

Originally Posted by Alpentalic

Don't let one person think they speak for all CC readership, a very shallow insult. Love , pray for and forgive I'm sure you might say...
Thanks,


It could be a lot worse you know because there are two types of education in the world. Read the Apostle Paul's thoughts about being one of the two most learned men of Rome. I'm not eloquehnt so I will use the Bible. This was why I took a poll. I didn't make this poll to see who was my cyber honey. Sorry, I'm naieve too maybe. A bad spell. Heck, who really knows. But, ah, getting back out to deeper waters,

The Holy Bible is like a sword. It will divide the liers from the pack. It was especially tough on early believers. Around the second century, a Christisan would have been used as hamburger meat to feed to the Roman dogs. My thread poll may look like hamburger helper to many folks but that's the grace that comes with the territory. If Juke needs a bigger piece, then he can read Moses below.


Act 7:24 And seeing one of them suffer wrong, he defended him, and avenged him that was oppressed, and smote the Egyptian:
Act 7:25 For he supposed his brethren would have understood how that God by his hand would deliver them: but they understood not.
Act 7:26 And the next day he shewed himself unto them as they strove, and would have set them at one again, saying, Sirs, ye are brethren; why do ye wrong one to another?
Act 7:27 But he that did his neighbour wrong thrust him away, saying, Who made thee a ruler and a judge over us?
Act 7:28 Wilt thou kill me, as thou diddest the Egyptian yesterday?
Act 7:29 Then fled Moses at this saying, and was a stranger in the land of Madian, where he begat two sons.
Act 7:30 And when forty years were expired, there appeared to him in the wilderness of mount Sina an angel of the Lord in a flame of fire in a bush.
Act 7:31 When Moses saw it, he wondered at the sight: and as he drew near to behold it, the voice of the Lord came unto him,
Act 7:32 Saying, I am the God of thy fathers, the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. Then Moses trembled, and durst not behold.

[IanTPoulter]

I thought I answered the question. What communion are you referring too then, may I ask. I approached what I consider the Holy Ghost meant in communing it's power. But if your speaking about communing over sacrileges, as in maybe the Catholic tradition, then I gave an example of my own cyber version of it. Keeping things holy is taking on new dimensions here it seems. Is it trashy. Yes in a way. But were the bottom classes of society with our handicaps. When in Rome, do as the Romans is really a becoming a night mare.
O.K. Do you participate in any ritual in which you symbolically eat the flesh of Christ and drink his blood? If not then what is your opinion of this ritual?

[IanTPoulter]

Ian - sorry my man, that wasn't directed at you....
Thats good, I really cant afford to make any more enemies . Ive got my full quota already :p

[Adino]

Quote:
Originally Posted by alpentalic
Ian - sorry my man, that wasn't directed at you....

I was unsure as well but he didn't.:D

"take as many cheap shots as you want..."

The boy likes to fester, right Fester? You got it, out of dutuful CC camaraderie-ship I hereby dub you "Fester".:p Or alpenfester, as the spirit moves.:D

YOU can http://www.sitcomsonline.com/boards/images/smilies/drummer.gif... take as many cheap shots as you like.http://www.sitcomsonline.com/boards/images/smilies/thanx.gif

Ok, I guess I'll play your game, big boy. It's only fair in this poll. It's your move.

[Adino]

If you're a minister I grieve for your congregation as you must bore all but the dullest of the assembly. But maybe you've got some offsetting charm that I'm unaware of, something you could advance here to suggest to the CC readership that exposure to you in-the-flesh would be less than boring, revolting or comical. I've got to doubt it though; your resourcefulness has been plumbed and we're in the shallows.:p:D

Juke,

Save your grievences for yourself. Or maybe butter yet. Because when words like butter and better are in the same sentence, then it's time for a new bag of popcorn friend. Cash in your Corn before it's too Late is the name of the next Biblical film. Please bring many dictionarys to play the butter better batter game or Juke will feel sorry for butterless self.

[Juke_spin]

Ok, I guess I'll play your game, big boy. It's only fair in this poll. It's your move.
Not you, son. You go back to reading your catechism and playing minister. We're setting up the special ed. remedial english class for you at some time, when you're ready, in the distant future. Off with you now, the kiddies are calling.:D

[Adino]

Not you, son. You go back to reading your catechism and playing minister. We're setting up the special ed. remedial english class for you at some time, when you're ready, in the distant future. Off with you now, the kiddies are calling.:D
Sorry to hear you are going thru buttered popcorn withdrawals. Maybe you can skip class tomorrow.

[Juke_spin]

Juke,

Save your grievences for yourself. Or maybe butter yet. Because when words like butter and better are in the same sentence, then it's time for a new bag of popcorn friend. Cash in your Corn before it's too Late is the name of the next Biblical film. Please bring many dictionarys to play the butter better batter game or Juke will feel sorry for butterless self.

"So sad to watch good love go bad."

[Adino]

O.K. Do you participate in any ritual in which you symbolically eat the flesh of Christ and drink his blood? If not then what is your opinion of this ritual?


Ian,

Well, honestly. One would have to look at the system that they are apart off. Because religion is such a big entity these days, it's difficult not to be a part of a system. Now there is nothing wrong with being a part of the system unless the system starts to lose a Christ centered meaning. The gospel of Christ is a very rewarding truth but it's also a very very soul wrenching experience at times. This is to those who seek truth, even to other ends. A few truth gems here and there is easy to pick up in most countries of the world. But Christians are told to remember the sacrific of Jesus Chist. How people go about it one thing. Taking it to heart is the point that is important though. I don't think I ever did while in a congregation - to answer the question. Of course I may see things in a different light as well. Maybe a poll to see who does is floating on the internet some where. My mom washed feet and I would too if I could. It would be a humbling and nice thing if I could. Do I really think it would be necessary to wash anothers feet. Well, ask this. How many people make it a point to wash their friends feet?

[Tiger Racing]

so could you explain the facts, logic and experience behind your beliefs ?
Boy is that a broad question. What specifically are you looking for here?

C.

[IanTPoulter]

Boy is that a broad question. What specifically are you looking for here?

C.
You stated you had facts logic and experience to support your religious beliefs which are not based on faith. I find it difficult to believe that anyone can demonstrate facts or logic to support any religion. Experience, maybe.

[Juke_spin]

Ian, reading your efforts to participation in this thread and at stimulating meaningful replies to honest and clearly worded queries, I've got to admire them. You, I don't know.:thinking:

You have enemies? LOL, why not, our enemies define us as well as our friends. That you could ever collect a prohibitive lot is doubtful though; you've got the patience of a saint.

[Leif]

First: What's wrong with me today, etc., etc.? Nothing in particullar - ssdd - same shit different day. LOL What's wrong that I talk issue with you post/question to Adino is that you're doing one of the things I did repeatedly earlier in this thread; you're not remaining aware of whom you addressing with you "holy ghost" question - and you're heaping it on top of my more aware "heaven" question.

Adino has made it abundantly clear that he's not up to snuff where theological hair-splitting/Thomas Aquinas type questions/replys are concerned. Hello! Am I getting through to you? Yet? All you can do by posing such Qs to Adino is a) annoy/confuse him or b) get your Q answered by another, more therologically versed, member in something like a satisfactory manner.:doh::p:mega:

Anywho, are you sufficiently enamored of Christianity that the exploration of the nature of the holy ghost seems a satisfying realm?:thinking: Hello.:doh::rolleyes:

BTW, holy ghost=free will?
First, sorry for the pagan SSDD directors over there making hell for you. Well they must be pagans; otherwise they wouldn’t do it I guess.

Holy Ghost=free will?

Did not say that, first I asked for the “free will” issue as a start, to add to your heaven Q, as for Adinos response to you, then, since you thought it was “double up” as for your Qs I also asked about the Holy Ghost, to improve... As for me when it comes to a God I can understand that God has free will, as for Jesus in the Bible, he didn’t I think (well like the conquer writers of wars write; the proof of history is in the pudding), but will that also imply on us regular humans, well, since Jesus was maid to be one of us? Above that, the Holy Ghost might have some free will, since we do not have a clear understanding of the history track records here. Maybe the Holy Ghost was here before God? Some Pentecostalists think so, I find. Does that mean the Pentecostalists doe not have a clear God, but a free will like the Holy Ghost and no free will as humans (re; Jesus)? Which was the original Q from my side of the corner; does humans have a free will?

[IanTPoulter]

Jukes, Im genuinely interested in what makes people tick and their religious beliefs, I was exposed to a wide variety of cultures and belief systems at a fairly young age and the curiosity has stuck with me.

remember Shakespeare, keep your friends close and your enemies closer.
It seems im good at disguising my slow wittedness as patience :p
Buy you a beer one day.

[Adino]

Ian, reading your efforts to participation in this thread and at stimulating meaningful replies to honest and clearly worded queries, I've got to admire them. You, I don't know.:thinking:

You have enemies? LOL, why not, our enemies define us as well as our friends. That you could ever collect a prohibitive lot is doubtful though; you've got the patience of a saint.

Juke,

Maybe you should give asking thoughtful questions a whirl too. But I'm curious, does your brain jiggle like jello pudding and gets stuck in the fridge very often. Sorry if this thread cutting into your brain buttering time. Ooops. Your brain must be attacking that sorry piece of a computer you got there thinking it's raining down golden fluffy popcorn. Should I ask quickly another faith-based question so you don't hurt the computer. ;)

[Juke_spin]

Jukes, Im genuinely interested in what makes people tick and their religious beliefs, I was exposed to a wide variety of cultures and belief systems at a fairly young age and the curiosity has stuck with me.

remember Shakespeare, keep your friends close and your enemies closer.
It seems im good at disguising my slow wittedness as patience :p
Buy you a beer one day.
Pal, if you weren't "genuinely interested" you could in no way have persisted through at least four pages/40 posts, trying to get the answers to two simple Qs from the OP and a few more from the reluctant one. Leif's amusing but, like many with myself included, has his own aganda. What you've brought provides inspiration and is cause for admiration.

Buy you two beers or a stein of stout...some day and count myself lucky.

[Leif]

Anywho, are you sufficiently enamored of Christianity that the exploration of the nature of the holy ghost seems a satisfying realm?:thinking: Hello.:doh::rolleyes:
Forgot to answer this one Juke. Ha ha, maybe not, do you remember our philosophical boredom friend here some time ago, forgot buddy’s what’s his name but his avatar was from the grateful death I think. Just remember the long thread, guess there was some 10,000 posts or maybe even some 100,000 posts in it lol, can’t recall exactly the posts now. Is he dead or still around, or was it mine suggestion to him for buying a orange coveralls to go to gitmo that did the trick? Lol :D

[Leif]

Leif,


You are very aware indeed, so don't let Juke_spin's sharade distract you. Actully, I'll lead off while Juke gets more butter. He's probably 600 lbs and ..

ok, almost got sucked in by the glare off all that shiny butter on his three chins.
Adino, Juke is okay, but only an omnipresent figure could tell, I guess :D

I would say that free will is a trait of the Holy Ghost but to say it'[s "free will" as Juke says is a flimsy definition. Jesus used the power of the Goly Ghost to defeat the world. The way Jesus dies this is that He uses it's knowledge. This in turn created free will. Before the Holy Ghost came, there was a world void of true life. Darkness crept about freely because it knew at the end of the day that it would win. It was well aware of it's prisoners.

God's word is light and it's agent is knowledge in the Holy Ghost. Those who have God's word has assurance that the world only has a limited hold of them. True, some feel freerer than others. Liberty does always pay a price. It will always cost us to live in this world. But don't forget that the blood of Jesus Christ can cover the darkness we create or have in our lives.

But how things move is a mystery and not as Juke writes. He's not that astute about evolution, ;) afterall.
The trait might be Ok, but what is the Holy Ghost when it comes to the image of Jesus or humans image of free will (other than you keep on saying Christ can cover the darkness we create or have in our lives)? The way Jesus died you hints? That might back up that some organisations of Christianity say both ways, we have a free will, but then not, hmm? Like, why does most Christian communities celebrate the torture and the death of Jesus hence the crucifixion we all have banged into our heads instead of the resurrection of his incident when he supposedly walked out of the tomb? Why not use images of Jesus walking away instead of crucifixion images? Of course you are influenced by the evangelical view here as for this, because if not, you wouldn’t have had so much fear, which also in fact could hamper a humans free will (the Holy Ghost should give some slack here) -A free tip though, one might want to take a step back and take another glance on this “human invented threat image”? As for evolution Adino, the same goes, but on that, fear might not be the ruling part.

[Adino]

Leif,


That word dies was a typo. It should have read does. But - amazingly, what Jesus does is very much like how He dies. Once was enough for Him and after that the gift. The best gift is too have regenerated life in God. This is a very unique ability that this created world has not ever done yet. Hopefully, if man does help himself to regenerate himself, also we will remember the best glorious power found in Jesus; as He asked us too.

[Leif]

Leif,


That word dies was a typo. It should have read does. But - amazingly, what Jesus does is very much like how He dies. Once was enough for Him and after that the gift. The best gift is too have regenerated life in God. This is a very unique ability that this created world has not ever done yet. Hopefully, if man does help himself to regenerate himself, also we will remember the best glorious power found in Jesus; as He asked us too.
Ghost Busters was also a typo I guess lol. Now pls answer Qs. And do not be afraid of Juke, we just take one wheel off his wheelchair if to bad. Like that will help, for his omnipresent green tea advices.

The best gift is too have regenerated life in God. This is a very unique ability that this created world has not ever done yet.
Some say so, some say otherwise, but who knows, and maybe the scary ones will win. Whatcha think?

[Adino]

Quote:
The best gift is too have regenerated life in God. This is a very unique ability that this created world has not ever done yet.

Some say so, some say otherwise, but who knows, and maybe the scary ones will win. Whatcha think?


Yes, definately, the scared ones deserve to win probably.

[Leif]

Yes, definately, the scared ones deserve to win probably.
Why definitely and why probably? Say: why should I believe/trust you?

[Steven Edwards]

Now pls answer Qs. Hypocrite. :p

[Leif]

Hypocrite. :p
Thought I did last time in a thread we discussed. No? Well, you didn’t ask any more Qs after. So why come around now a name me a hippokrite? You really are stretching this scientificall relationship :stirpot: Are you a ghost too?

[Adino]

Say: why should I believe/trust you?

A. Because I say so.

[Leif]

A. Because I say so.
B. Some teachers will also most likely lose their well-paid nonsense jobs in the future when today’s teenagers take over.

[Adino]

Originally Posted by Leif

Ghost Busters was also a typo I guess lol. Now pls answer Qs. And do not be afraid of Juke, we just take one wheel off his wheelchair if to bad. Like that will help, for his omnipresent green tea advices.

What question.

We don't want Juke to be without wheels now do we? He would start wailing and moaning to God to heal himself so he can get up and change the tv channel.

[Juke_spin]

Adino

The word "dies" was a typo for "does"? And you left it undiscovered and uncorrected for...how many posts/minutes? Buddy, and I'm taking you under my semantic wing here so that isn't meant sarcastically, you have got to start making a practice of editing your posts before submitting them to the boards. You are embarked on a semantically exacting discussion which you generated with your topic-post and subsequent claims of special god-word/biblical knowledge. But your habitual sloppy use of words, misspellings and typos make your message a garble and indicate to readers trying to engage you that your too lazy in areas of written communicaton to bother much and most have/will move on, looking for more responsible, intellectually agile and energetic respondents to interact with.

Try to understand, pal, that I'm telling you this for your own good and in an honest effort to help you be effective on these boards. If you can/will make the effort to edit your post for at least word use, spelling and typos you will have a chance of getting your point across and, prehaps, reaching those amongst the CCers "hungry" for your message and willing to see you as a worthy messenger.

BTW, all that smoke you've produced trying to cast me with an eating disorder is seen for what it is. If it's all you can muster to get a sense of isolation from criticism and if that sense is essential to you, keep it up. But it just makes you look sillier and fools no one. Better you see my suggestions here as the friendly and helpful indications they are meant by me to be. Better you adopt them and do yourself and the CC readership a favor.;)

Leif,


That word dies was a typo. It should have read does. But - amazingly, what Jesus does is very much like how He dies. Once was enough for Him and after that the gift. The best gift is too have regenerated life in God. This is a very unique ability that this created world has not ever done yet. Hopefully, if man does help himself to regenerate himself, also we will remember the best glorious power found in Jesus; as He asked us too.

[Leif]

What question.

We don't want Juke to be without wheels now do we? He would start wailing and moaning to God to heal himself so he can get up and change the tv channel.
Did you say wheeling, wailing or whaling (yum-yum), how was that whale story now again :D

[Leif]

Leif,


That word dies was a typo. It should have read does.
No problem. And the dif as for the repliy would be? Same as mod Steven? Or like prof Juke.

[Tiger Racing]

you have got to start making a practice of editing your posts before submitting them to the boards.
That's good advice for anyone. If all we have to represent ourselves is the written word, then we need to take care how we use them. Spelling and grammar count in this context as much as tone of voice and appearance would in a face-to-face communication.

BTW, all that smoke you've produced trying to cast me with an eating disorder is seen for what it is.
Yeah... even if Juke weighed 700 lbs, what the Hel would that have to do with his or anyone else's religion? Weight has absolutely nothing to do with intellect and referring to it is merely an ad hominem attack meant to deflect from the topic at hand. It's a lazy man's argument. Try harder.

C.

[vgrafen]

Juke, your patience and stamina is amazing; how you've managed to continue thoughtfully replying to every barb is...well, either an indication of great Christ-like compassion, or that you have way too much time on your hands, son, way too much...

I love these long threads; the by-play after 10 pages or so is really interesting, in that you really get to see a person's deeper thoughts and justifications. I do my best to stay out of most of them, especially these religion discussions which generally unravel into name-calling, as in this thread.

I'm suspect of any 'religion peddler', and I do my best to either stay far away and not engage or, if they 'get in my face', to ridicule their logic and dismantle their arguments. In Adino's case, the logic simply doesn't hold and the posts speak for themselves and are thus, while well-intended, simply without backbone.

Oh, wait, that's a pun...

Seriously, Adino, you undermine your efforts to win souls by your belittling and 'better-than-thou-cause-now-I'm-saved' righteousness. How many ad hominem attacks did Christ partake of? You'd be better served, as we're told in James, by making your faith become a series of living actions from which we can see Christ.

Shoving scripture down anybody's throats...only makes ya vomit...

[adi chicago]

guys if you belive everything is for real.human nature.dont lose hope,heart and faith.my advice.

[Juke_spin]

guys if you belive everything is for real.human nature.dont lose hope,heart and faith.my advice.

You know that's not what we want to hear from you.:nono::p

[JakeHalsted]

It's unfortunate that Bush and his cronies never actually read what Christ has to say.

http://www.streetprophets.com/

[michaelm]

Yes - Not one mistake or contradiction ever found

Tiny tablet provides proof for Old Testament

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/07/11/ntablet111.xml

[IanTPoulter]

Yes - Not one mistake or contradiction ever found

Tiny tablet provides proof for Old Testament

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/07/11/ntablet111.xml
No it doesnt, it possibly provides proof that one person mentioned in the Bible actually did exist.
Prof Jursa suddenly came across a name he half remembered - Nabu-sharrussu-ukin, described there in a hand 2,500 years old, as "the chief eunuch" of Nebuchadnezzar II, king of Babylon.
Prof Jursa, an Assyriologist, checked the Old Testament and there in chapter 39 of the Book of Jeremiah, he found, spelled differently, the same name - Nebo-Sarsekim.
Nebo-Sarsekim, according to Jeremiah, was Nebuchadnezzar II's "chief officer" and was with him at the siege of Jerusalem in 587 BC, when the Babylonians overran the city.

[Tiger Racing]

Nabu-sharrussu-ukin, described there in a hand 2,500 years old, as "the chief eunuch" of Nebuchadnezzar II, king of Babylon...

Nebo-Sarsekim, according to Jeremiah, was Nebuchadnezzar II's "chief officer"
Two different names and two different titles? Oh, yeah, that's proof.

C.

[Keiser]

The bible should have a footnote saying "How to scare the living shit outta every human of every civilization for generations to come, and how to use that to your advantage". I wonder if GWB has read it lately - He must have misinterpreted... Isn't he dyslexic? he missed a few pointers.

It proves nothing other than there was some good shit being smoked in them days or the bible could have been a record of the worlds earliest know psychotic epidemic from the perspective of the writers being afflicted, or people were just too superstitious.

It also proves tho not obviously that people need direction in life and will lose all capability to reason to find it.

[Juke_spin]

The bible should have a footnote saying "How to scare the living shit outta every human of every civilization for generations to come, and how to use that to your advantage". I wonder if GWB has read it lately - He must have misinterpreted... Isn't he dyslexic? he missed a few pointers.

It proves nothing other than there was some good shit being smoked in them days or the bible could have been a record of the worlds earliest know psychotic epidemic from the perspective of the writers being afflicted, or people were just too superstitious.

It also proves tho not obviously that people need direction in life and will lose all capability to reason to find it.

I get it Keiser, but a little better explication would be helpful on that last sentence.;)

[kenf]

everybody wants to think they go somewhere when they die. not , thats what all religions hope for.

[vjls]

jesus is my lord and saviour he is everything

[Tiger Racing]

everybody wants to think they go somewhere when they die. not , thats what all religions hope for.
You are wrong on both counts.

C.