HOA refuses to approve garage doors - ADA citation?

[kittim]

We installed garage doors that would allow us to better control the temperature in our garage (this is where my husband exercises), and has windows so that he may see out from a seated position and others to see in if necessary to check on him. He had a fall out there and lay on the floor for hours, even though someone had come by to check on him, they could not see in the garage. Because of a snafu, our original application appeared to become "lost". Our hoa allows assumption of approval if no response is received within 3o days of application. Well, we went ahead an installed them. This was 2 years ago. Now someone has complained about them and the HOA is telling us we have to remove them. We have tried everything to convince them to let us keep them. They are also very attractive, but that was our last consideration.

I was considering quoting the Fair Housing Act which dictates that "responable accomodations to rules, procedures etc. must be made to allow a handicapped person to fully enjoy..." Seems to cover the situation but does not really specifiy HOAs. They are quite uneven in what they approve and we have decided to move for that and many other reasons, one of which is that our house it 2 story. Anyway... my question is, does anyone have any experience in dealing with HOA boards that may help in our plight. We have an offer on our house, but the deal may fall through because of this problem.

Thanks... we are at our wits end.

[addiesue]

Nice house.
I have no advice but try zillazangel. She had trouble with her HOA about a ramp I think.

[Tiger Racing]

Our hoa allows assumption of approval if no response is received within 3o days of application. Well, we went ahead an installed them. This was 2 years ago. Now someone has complained about them and the HOA is telling us we have to remove them.
Did you ever hear from your owner's association prior to this complaint? Do you have documentation showing that you tried contacing them prior to installing these doors? That would seem to take care of the issue.

At our current location, our HOA prohibits parking overnight in driveways and in the public parking areas. We were contacted about my husband's car a couple of years ago. We responded by telling them that I use a wheelchair and that if we park two cars in our garage, I cannot open my door completely to get in and out of my car. The HOA granted an exception to their rule and my husband is allowed to park in the public spaces overnight.

That being said, I despise HOAs. Every one I've ever heard of seems to be ruled by small people fascinated with power and control. I'm sure there are exceptions and I wouldn't want the house next to mine painted fuschia or electric orange, but overall, I think that these associations are a ridiculous waste of time and money.

C.

[Le Type Français]

I love that house.

[dan_nc]

I believe the homeowner associations are required to comply with the Federal Fair Housing Amendments Act (FHAA). You should contact a lawyer if you are not getting the answers you need from your HOA.

[2jazzyjeff]

You said they are garage doors, but are they functional like a typical door would be, just more decorative? If so, I can't see how in the world HOA or anyone would be against or could make you remove them. At my present house, 8 years ago I had a garage door installed for security of my vehicles and misc. things.

If you are selling and have a potential buyer, why not take them down rather than it being a deal breaker?

[SCI-Nurse]

In CA, there is state law that specifically states that HOAs cannot prevent the installation of accessible features, although they are able to set standards for their appearance (for example, they could determine the color you paint a ramp). If you are having problems with the board, then I would suggest that you request formal mediation (Alternative Dispute Resolution or ADR). This is required by law in CA as well, and you may need to obtain the services of an attorney to get your rights met.

Here is a pretty good discussion of the related laws:

http://www.hoa-law.com/publications/fair-housing-compliance.html

I just moved out of a CA condo into a house and am SOOOOO glad to not have to deal with the HOA board anymore!!!

(KLD)

[kittim]

Thanks everyone for your replies and suggestions. We considered taking them down, but they were expensive, and then there is the cost both financially and time associated with replacing them. We are on a fixed income now and we just can't continue to lose money that we need for our future. One of the reasons we are selling our home is to get the cash out of it, move to a smaller place. THis is so hard. We have lived in this house for almost 20 years.

We are meeting with one of the board members today and then tomorrow night we will address the entire board, for the third time. We have hesitated to bring up the disability issues, although we have told them from the start the reasons we did this were due to his injury.

[zillazangel]

Yes, we have experience with this. The ADA does not technically cover private dwellings, but the Fair Housing Act does cover homes and HOAs. Just bring up his injury, use the sympathy card first because you catch more flies with honey than vinegar. If they don't come around, have a lawyer write a letter, and if that fails, call a news station that does consumer fraud type coverage. They eat this stuff up. Here in Raleigh, a family with a 4 year old boy with autism was asked to take their fence down that enclosed their backyard, which backed up to a pond. Because he is autistic, the fence is a disability necessary item. Their HOA vetoed it, but then the newspaper picked it up and suddenly the HOA changed their minds. Bad publicity is a great motivator!!

[kenf]

very nice house. i think the doors look great , coming from a former doorman and i know there not cheap. got a suck pp telling you what you can and can't do on your own house and property. good luck.

[JenJen]

I too had major problems with HOA board members. They are elected homeowners so I worked with the Property Manager, who has a better understanding of ADA and the Fair Housing Act. As soon as we established that I am D/A, all (well most) of my problems evaporated. You've been dealt the card, play it.

[RSieck]

What would happen if you just completly ignored them? I have hardly any idea what a HOA is. We live on a 140 acre farm out in the country and nobody can tell us what to do except the county, and they always leave us alone...

[kittim]

Well, we just had a meeting with one of the more sympathetic members of the board. I set up this meeting as a prelude to the actual board meeting tomorrow evening. I am hoping to get this guy on our side. We had an exhaustive talk about my husbands injury and his road to recovery and life's challenges. We brought up all the reasons that we changed out the doors and the very last thing we talked about was the boards responsiblity to not discriminate and I gave him the appropriate citation from the Fair Housing Act and also exerpts from the discussion that KLD pointed me to (which was great by the way). I don't think he really gets that legally they are required to make an exception for us. Of course, I didn't know it either until last night. In any event, it will be an interesting meeting tomorrow night. Sadly, we have to make a counter offer, which will probably be the last one, today. Unless the buyer does not except it, we will be bound by it and have to do whatever the board dictates.

I wish we could just ignore them, but during escrow there is a process by which the HOA has to sign off on the deal. Has to do with HOA fees, but they may be able to halt the sale. Don't know.

Its like we don't have enough to deal with!!!

[kittim]

By the way, thank you all who mentioned that you like my house. We really love it, it will be so sad to leave... just another loss. But my husband feels he will do better in a warmer less humid climate and I think there is value in "starting over" somewhere else. I hope it will give us both a fresh perspective.

[Leif]

I wish we could just ignore them, but during escrow there is a process by which the HOA has to sign off on the deal. Has to do with HOA fees, but they may be able to halt the sale. Don't know.
Sometimes when selling property or real estate it is not uncommon there could be attached disputes with third parties, but this does not necessarily have to hamper a sale as long as the buyer is notified about ongoing disputes. Isn’t it possible to make a note in the contract that a potential buyer will inherit the dispute and that HOA could agree on that as well? Then it would be up to the buyer/new owner to sort out the issues or leave things as is. For HOA this should be fine I guess, as it is the doors they have problems with. Maybe you could check this option with a real estate lawyer. This could make things easy for you if it could be an approach, which it should be for minor issues like this. I also think the house will sell better with the doors like this although there is a small dispute with third parties.
Good luck.

[CapnGimp]

That being said, I despise HOAs. Every one I've ever heard of seems to be ruled by small people fascinated with power and control. I'm sure there are exceptions and I wouldn't want the house next to mine painted fuschia or electric orange, but overall, I think that these associations are a ridiculous waste of time and money.

C.

Agree 110% ! I had some sissies in TX tried to bs me at my house. They were pulling lies out of there a_ses. When they threatened me with fines(over lies, not fact) I lifted my shirt, patted my 45 and said your move. As I walked off I said try me. Never heard another word from them.
Sometimes, when push comes to shove, you have to knock some people down. Power hungry punks are the worst and most deserving kind.

Now I don't advocate these actions for fine, upstanding citizens but if you are wrestling with pigs, you gotta get muddy to play effectively.

These last few years I don't behave this way. But there is enough residual fear of my past history, that people tend to be real nice today. :D

If a sale is hanging in the balance, talk to the prospective buyers. Unless they are hc also, the doors will have to be removed anyway, once you are gone. Negotiate the sale price to include what it costs to change them. All the meetings in the world will not change the fact that they will come down once you leave UNLESS the buyer is hc also.

[kittim]

Well, just returned from my HOA meeting. Made a presentation which began with trying to educate them about SCI and in particular my husbands condition and culminated with the Fair HOusing act citations. Only 3 of the board were there, two seemed sympathetic, they basically listened and said we would hear from them. They did not seemed phased by the state and federal law that prohibit them from doing what they are trying to do. As a matter of fact, the reference I read from an attorney who represents HOAs indicates that they cannot require them to be removed, even when we leave this home. So... we will see. I was nice, did not threaten. But if this doesn't work, I will be more proactive about seeking an attorney letter, maybe calling the news media, and filing a lawsuit. I would go to small claims to recoup money for having to replace the door and file a claim with the feds. It really angers me... And to top it all off, they have handicapped parking that leads to a pretty steep ramp. Which is good. Then at the end of the ramp there are two stairs, so while someone in a wheelchair can get to the building, they can't get in the building. And belive me... those board members do not care how difficult our life is. It pisses me off.

[zillazangel]

Ahhhh kittim, that sooooo sux. Even before I met and married a disabled person, I would have been completely understanding of your situation. I was the president of my neighbor HOA for a number of years (note: when we moved from that neighborhood, I never once volunteered again as it is a truly rotten, miserable thankless job if you're a good-guy, as it tends to be full of power hungry losers who exert their authority by denying people things that are completely reasonable, say accomodations based on disability ... but I disgress).

Uuhhh, where was I? LOL...

I'm really sorry to hear about the meeting not going as well as it should have. Especially since an attorney costs $$ and you are moving to save $$, I'm thinking that a high priced lawyer ain't in the picture. :(

Keep chipping away though, see if you can talk to the members individually. Divide and conquer.

[zillazangel]

Wait, I just re-read your post! GO GET 'EM!! File a complaint with the Dept of Justice about the inaccesability of their building. The building IS required to be ADA compliant if its a public place, not a person's home. That's called leverage. Grrrrrr, that now makes me really REALLY mad.