Water on Mars

[Them Bones]

http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/mars/news/mgs-20061206.html

I have many opinions on many things. One thing that I believe to be true is that life is a general phenomenon occuring throughout the universe. Where the conditions are sufficient I believe it may be found. And I believe that one day the knowledge that life exists elswhere will be as common as the knowledge that the Earth is round.

I also believe that when we discover evidence of life elsewhere the effect it will have on society will be on the order of magnitude of Gallileo discovering the Heavens, Man's very model of God's perfection and order, were imperfect and chaotic. Proving that life is a random natural phenomenon could finally lead humanity to stop killing over religion. We would enter the next true period of enlightenment in human history. In our own corner of the world, it would at the very least end the "value-based" political platform.

This is probably too hazardous speculation to even be considering, but what if we get to Mars and we find the remains of life? I believe it is inevitable that we find life, or as fiction would write, life finds us. I only today began seriously considering the implications of such a discovery. Could such an event happen in my lifetime?

I think the odds we find evidence of life on Mars are around as slim as the odds of finding a grain of salt on Waikiki Beach. But that doesn't stop me from wondering.

[rdf]

I hope it is water the images show, and I hope we can find microbial life there.

The huge question to me isn't if there's life elsewhere, such as on Mars, but if extraterrestrial life is anatomically different than life on Earth.

If it's the same stuff we have here, that would be a bombshell, sure, but I can think of a few ways life from Earth could have gotten to Mars, or the same kind of life could have gotten on both planets.

But if the life on Mars is different, has different DNA/RNA, etc., or no DNA at all but is life that is anatomically structurally different, or made of organic elements different from ours, well, to me that means there is an abundant diversity of life all thorughout the Universe.
If we check the next planet over and there's another form of life on it (or maybe even Earth's type of life), then statistically, to me, life exists everywhere in the Universe where the conditions are right.

Amazing stuff, I only hope I'm alive when they do find life either on Mars, or Europa or one of the other outer solar system moons.

[Tiger Racing]

One thing that I believe to be true is that life is a general phenomenon occuring throughout the universe. Where the conditions are sufficient I believe it may be found.
That seems logical.

I also believe that when we discover evidence of life elsewhere the effect it will have on society will be on the order of magnitude of Gallileo discovering the Heavens, Man's very model of God's perfection and order, were imperfect and chaotic. Proving that life is a random natural phenomenon could finally lead humanity to stop killing over religion. We would enter the next true period of enlightenment in human history. In our own corner of the world, it would at the very least end the "value-based" political platform. Now that seems a leap. I don't understand why you think that life on other worlds would prove or disprove anything about "god". Is this directly related to the Desert God? To the Judeo/Xian/Islamic god? Even so, why would life on other worlds say anything about the perfection or imperfection of one god? Why would it prove anything about life on this world being more or less worthwhile?

C.

[Scott Buxton]

Smart thinking outside the box! Scott.

[Tufelhunden]

Ironic this should come on the seven year anniversary of the disappearance of the Lander...

[Leif]

I don't think NASA was looking for a god, not this time at least :)

[Them Bones]

Now that seems a leap. I don't understand why you think that life on other worlds would prove or disprove anything about "god". Is this directly related to the Desert God? To the Judeo/Xian/Islamic god? Even so, why would life on other worlds say anything about the perfection or imperfection of one god? Why would it prove anything about life on this world being more or less worthwhile?

C.

I feel like the major religions are based on the idea that a god created life uniquely on this planet. So much of science already flies in the face of what's written in scriptures, and this could be one very major addition. We evolved from a primordial soup, but we don't know what gave the spark of life, and that creates a lot of doubt. I think that problem helps a lot of people resolve evolution to creation. Evidence of life on another planet would strongly support the idea that that spark of life is a natural phenomenon, rather than an act of a divine creator.

As far as life being more or less worthwhile, I would like to think that life is plenty valuable regardless of the existence of a god. There are a lot of people who need religion to give their lives meaning, my fiance made the point that people who only live moral lives because god tells them to will probably just not believe it. Like they already don't believe the age of the Earth, or evolution.

[Them Bones]

If it's the same stuff we have here, that would be a bombshell, sure, but I can think of a few ways life from Earth could have gotten to Mars, or the same kind of life could have gotten on both planets.



That is an interesting thought, that life may have gotten from the Earth to Mars. We've already found that some lichens (http://www.esa.int/esaCP/SEMUJM638FE_index_0.html)can survive extended exposure to space. So maybe life came to Earth from elsewhere, but I don't think it would be possible for life to have left Earth on a rock with an escape velocity (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Escape_velocity) of at least 11.2 kilometers per second. Also, for that life to thrive and propagate on Mars, there would have to be a much thicker atmosphere than there currently is, which would make it unlikely that life would survive entry into the Mars atmosphere.

[Them Bones]

We've recently found liquid water on one of Saturn's moons, Enceladus (http://www.nasa.gov/centers/jpl/news/cassinif-20060629.html). Of course, manned space missions probably won't be making it that far in our lifetime.

[rdf]

That is an interesting thought, that life may have gotten from the Earth to Mars. We've already found that some lichens (http://www.esa.int/esaCP/SEMUJM638FE_index_0.html)can survive extended exposure to space. So maybe life came to Earth from elsewhere, but I don't think it would be possible for life to have left Earth on a rock with an escape velocity (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Escape_velocity) of at least 11.2 kilometers per second. Also, for that life to thrive and propagate on Mars, there would have to be a much thicker atmosphere than there currently is, which would make it unlikely that life would survive entry into the Mars atmosphere.

Good stuff bones, you make good points.

I think we can't rule out any environment as life supporting, or not. The existence of extremophiles here on Earth leads me to believe life may exist in places where we never before would have believed. We have found such life here on Earth, also life that doesn't get its energy from the sun, but from chemicals or warm ocean vents, etc.

We have found bacteria I believe miles and miles down deep in the Earth. We've even found rock-eating bacteria. The more we look, the more places we find life thriving in environments we always thought were life-prohibitive, from life in frozen Antarctica to the acidic hot-water geyser systems in Yellowstone that contain algae. Water so acid it would eat through metal contained life.

The moon was created by the Earth getting hit by another "planet," in the early years after the solar system was created. I think the Earth absorbed this collision, barely, pretty much turning the whole planet into a molten mess.

This collision sent huge quantities of Earth material into orbit, where it coalesced and became the moon. (I don't know if this is accepted theory, or not, but it's what I tend to believe).

If that could happen once, then other collisions could have bounced off of the Earth, and continued on their way and collided with Mars, bringing microbes and such, or at least most of the basic ingredients for life as we know it.

Also, comets could have been the genesis for life on Earth, and if that was the case, it could just as well have happened on Mars. Comets are known to contain amino acids and peptides, and other organic chemicals needed for life, so anything is possible. I'm not saying life itself came from a comet, but maybe many of the ingredients needed for life did.

There's a word for life coming from outside the Earth, but the term eludes me at this time.

I'm not sure, but I think Mars may have had a much more efficient and dense atmosphere in its past. Regardless, life could possibly still exist on Mars today, even in the harsh environment.

I guess I'm trying to say we can't really define where and what life is based on what we now know. I wish I could live to be a thousand...

Fascinating stuff, wish I would have been born about a century or two later than I was :( ;)

[Them Bones]

Thanks pal, This is fascinating stuff.

Let's hope progress moves quick and we see some amazing things in our lifetime!