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Wise Young
10-26-2006, 02:45 PM
http://www.ananova.com/news/story/sm_2051583.html?menu=news.quirkies

Women are grumpier than men in the morning, according to a new survey.

The study found women were grumpier than men when they wake up - and stay in a bad mood for longer.
<more>


http://u.tv/newsroom/indepth.asp?id=77505&pt=n
Some 24% of men say that they never awake grumpy compared to only 14% of women. British people are apparently amongst the grumpiest. In Northern Ireland, more than a third of the respondents said that they felt crabby after the first hour after waking.

This study by the Sleep Council in Britain has been widely reported in UK.
http://www.responsesource.com/releases/rel_display.php?relid=27806&hilite=

Aside from avoiding British and particularly North Irelanders in the morning, I wondered what possible biological implications could underlie this phenomenon and whether this had been reported before. A little searching revealed a study presented in last year's British Psychological Society Conference reported that women are far grumpier than men (Source (http://news.scotsman.com/uk.cfm?id=343462005)).

Mellow old men leave the anger to grumpy women
PETER RANSCOMBE

GRUMPY old men, exemplified by the moaning Victor Meldrew, are a myth, new research suggested yesterday.

But the study also showed that women, both young and old, get equally cross, making older women grumpier than their male counterparts.

The researchers discovered that men tend to mellow as they get older and do not take on the mantle of grumpy television character Victor Meldrew, but found levels of self-reported anger among women stayed roughly the same throughout their age range. The team at Middlesex University looked at 52 men and 101 women aged between 18 and 60.

<more>

Although the paper attributed to "grumpiness" to lower quality of sleep, other explanations should be considered. For example, lower blood sugar levels may lead to "grumpiness" (Source (http://www.ajc.com/news/content/living/stories/0705lvlovefood.html)).
Another possibility is a possible linkage between grumpy and brainy (Source (http://www.webmd.com/content/article/126/116267)).
Are Smart People Grumpier?

Maybe After 60, Shows Personality and Intelligence Study
By Miranda Hitti
WebMD Medical News Reviewed By Louise Chang, MD
on Thursday, August 10, 2006

Aug. 10, 2006 -- Grumpy and brainy may go together in older folks; but young people tend to be more open and friendly if they're bright, researchers report.

The study looking at the connection between personality and intelligence was presented today at the American Psychological Association's 2006 convention in New Orleans. <more>

A quick review of the medical literature revealed several possible explanations. Wu, et al. (2000) reported on the incidence of "male menopause". Apparently, testosterone production dwindles quickly after age 50 to become 20-50% of peak levels in men. Amongst the symptoms was grumpiness. Even though it occurs, it is possible the more women start earlier with menopause and women live longer than men and therefore there are more older women with menopause then men with low testosterone.
Wu CY, Yu TJ and Chen MJ (2000). Age related testosterone level changes and male andropause syndrome. Chang Gung Med J 23: 348-53. BACKGROUND: Much like the menopause syndrome occurring among older women, a similar condition has been defined among men. Testosterone production increases rapidly at the onset of puberty, then dwindles quickly after age 50 to become 20 to 50% of the peak level by age 80. Many men older than age 50 have experienced frailty syndrome, which includes decrease of libido, easy fatigue, mood disturbance, accelerated osteoporosis, and decreased muscle strength. We investigated serum total testosterone levels and andropause syndrome in men. METHODS: Serum total testosterone levels were measured in 53 symptomatic men older than age 50 and in 48 men younger than age 40 for a control group. We also analyzed andropause symptoms among the 53 men older than age 50. RESULTS: The mean serum total testosterone level in the symptomatic men older than age 50 (mean: 2.68 +/- 0.51 ng/ml, range: 1.21 to 4.13 ng/ml) was significantly lower than that in the control group (mean: 7.01 +/- 0.82 ng/ml, range: 5.53 ng/ml to 8.14 ng/ml). Male frailty syndrome in these men older than 50 included: decreased libido (91%), lack of energy (89%), erection problems (79%), falling asleep after dinner (77%), memory impairment (77%), loss of pubic hair (70%), sad or grumpy mood changes (68%), decrease in endurance (66%), loss of axillary hair (55%), and deterioration in work performance (51%). CONCLUSION: The serum total testosterone level showed a decline with aging, especially in the men older than age 50. Low serum testosterone levels were also associated with the symptoms of male andropause syndrome. Department of Family Medicine, Chang Gung Memorial Hospital, Kaohsiung, Taiwan, R.O.C. yin516@ksmail.seed.net.tw http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&dopt=Citation&list_uids=10958037

Women have an increased risk of new onset depression during their menopausal transition, according to Cohen, et al. (2006).
Cohen LS, Soares CN, Vitonis AF, Otto MW and Harlow BL (2006). Risk for new onset of depression during the menopausal transition: the Harvard study of moods and cycles. Arch Gen Psychiatry 63: 385-90. CONTEXT: Transition to menopause has long been considered a period of increased risk for depressive symptoms. However, it is unclear whether this period is one of increased risk for major depressive disorder, particularly for women who have not had a previous episode of depression. OBJECTIVE: To examine the association between the menopausal transition and onset of first lifetime episode of depression among women with no history of mood disturbance. DESIGN: Longitudinal, prospective cohort study. SETTING: A population-based cross-sectional sample. PARTICIPANTS: Premenopausal women, 36 to 45 years of age, with no lifetime diagnosis of major depression (N = 460), residing in 7 Boston, Mass, metropolitan area communities.Main Outcome Measure Incidence of new onset of depression based on structured clinical interviews, Center for Epidemiologic Studies Depression Scale scores, and an operational construct for depression. RESULTS: Premenopausal women with no lifetime history of major depression who entered the perimenopause were twice as likely to develop significant depressive symptoms as women who remained premenopausal, after adjustment for age at study enrollment and history of negative life events. The increased risk for depression was somewhat greater in women with self-reported vasomotor symptoms. CONCLUSIONS: The current study suggests that within a similarly aged population of women with no lifetime history of depression, those who enter the menopausal transition earlier have a significant risk for first onset of depression. Further studies are needed to determine more definitively whether other factors, such as the presence of vasomotor symptoms, use of hormone therapy, and the occurrence of adverse life events, independently modify this risk. Physical symptoms associated with the menopausal transition and mood changes seen during this period may affect many women as they age and may lead to a significant burden of illness. Perinatal and Reproductive Psychiatry Clinical Research Program and Department of Psychiatry, Harvard Medical School, Massachusetts General Hospital, Boston, 02114, USA. lcohen2@partners.org http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&dopt=Citation&list_uids=16585467

Morgan, et al. (2005) reported that estrogen augmentation relieves mood but not memory in perimenopausal women
Morgan ML, Cook IA, Rapkin AJ and Leuchter AF (2005). Estrogen augmentation of antidepressants in perimenopausal depression: a pilot study. J Clin Psychiatry 66: 774-80. OBJECTIVE: To investigate the effects of estrogen augmentation on mood and memory in women with perimenopausal depression who had experienced a partial response to antidepressant medications. METHOD: In a double-blind, placebo-controlled trial, 17 subjects taking antidepressant medication were randomly assigned to either 0.625 mg/day of conjugated estrogen (N = 11) or matching placebo (N = 6) for 6 weeks. Women between the ages of 40 and 60 years with DSM-IV major depressive disorder (MDD) in partial remission who had been taking antidepressant medication for a minimum of 8 weeks and were experiencing 1 or more perimenopausal symptoms (hot flashes, night sweats, irregular periods, sleep disturbance, memory impairment) were recruited from the community. The primary outcome measures were the final scores for the Hamilton Rating Scale for Depression (HAM-D) and the Buschke Selective Reminding Test. Data were gathered from April 2002 to August 2003. RESULTS: Women receiving estrogen had a significantly larger decrease in HAM-D scores than women receiving placebo (t = 2.86, df = 15, p = .012). Group differences in tests of verbal memory were not significant, although improved scores in verbal memory were significantly correlated with a decrease in follicle-stimulating hormone (p = .021). CONCLUSION: Short-term, low-dose estrogen augmentation of antidepressant medication was significantly associated with improved mood, but not memory, in perimenopausal women with MDD in partial remission. Laboratory of Behavioral Pharmacology, University of California Los Angeles Neuropsychiatric Institute and Hospital, Department of Psychiatry and Biobehavioral Sciences, 90024, USA. melinda@ucla.edu http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&dopt=Citation&list_uids=15960574

In addition, perimenopausal symptoms are associated with poorer sleep in women
Kloss JD, Tweedy K and Gilrain K (2004). Psychological factors associated with sleep disturbance among perimenopausal women. Behav Sleep Med 2: 177-90. The complex nature of sleep among perimenopausal women warrants a biopsychosocial conceptualization; however, research on the psychological factors that contribute to the increased prevalence of poor sleep quality during this time is limited. We conducted a survey study of perimenopausal women (N = 168) to investigate the relations among nocturnal hot flashes, mood, dysfunctional beliefs and attitudes about sleep (DBAS), and subjective sleep quality. Self-report ratings of depressive symptoms, trait anxiety, hot flashes, and DBAS significantly correlated with poor sleep quality. Ratings on the DBAS Scale-Short Form mediated the relations both between nocturnal hot flashes and sleep quality and between mood and sleep quality. The interplay between physiological and psychological mechanisms among perimenopausal women is highlighted. Department of Psychology, Drexel University, Philadelphia, PA 19104, USA. jdk29@drexel.edu http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&dopt=Citation&list_uids=15600054

I wonder about the ages of the people that were sampled in the study and the extent to which the survey represented men and women in their 50's.
In any case, there are a myriad of explanations for the finding and not necessarily an intrinsic difference of grumpiness between men and women in the morning.

Wise.

LaMemChose
10-26-2006, 03:20 PM
I'm very ungrumpy. In fact, family and SO have commented on it when they've been around and I am awakened or awakening.

Just not my nature to be grumpy when sleep ends.

chick
10-26-2006, 04:08 PM
The groups are not distinguished and compared by relationship status- single or married, etc.

We know that married men are generally healthier and happier than unmarried men, and married men healthier and happier than married women.

Men in relationships seem better off than women in same. This account for: less stress, better diet, more sex, more freq. Dr. visits, etc., contributing to healthier men.
Thus, better sleep patterns and more restful sleep among men.
Older women tend to have been married more and for longer periods than single women. Therefore, having had to deal with men and having had to suffer the consequences of caring for and being burdened by men for longer time, older women/married are more likely to be "grumpier" waking up in the morning than younger/single women. Add to this: disturbed sleep due to snoring men. men waking up horny after full nights rest with a raging hard-on, needing "help" women who wake up happy but after turning over in bed to face their aging, beer-bellied, balding, flatulent lump next to them.... well.... ...is it any wonder?

Zeus
10-26-2006, 07:28 PM
Ouch Chick!

brocko
10-26-2006, 07:35 PM
Chick, men may indeed be difficult to cope with BUT ave you ever tried living with a woman?

Steven Edwards
10-26-2006, 07:40 PM
Chick's hypothesis fails to account for female grumpiness at a young age. Her explanation assumes that younger women aren't grumpy, which contradicts the findings from Middlesex University's reported research.

Sorry dear. :)

chick
10-26-2006, 07:43 PM
Jus Fun'in, you manly men, you :)

but.... TRUE! :p (supported by some data, out there in dataland)


brocko, yes I have. Had to kick her out after 2 weeks. True! Ha!

christopher
10-26-2006, 07:44 PM
Older women tend to have been married more and for longer periods than single women. Therefore, having had to deal with men and having had to suffer the consequences of caring for and being burdened by men for longer time, older women/married are more likely to be "grumpier" waking up in the morning than younger/single women. Add to this:

* disturbed sleep due to snoring men.
* men waking up horny after full nights rest with a raging hard-on, needing "help"
* women who wake up happy but after turning over in bed to face their aging, beer-bellied, balding, flatulent lump next to them.... well....

...is it any wonder?

Stop talking about my Mom like that!

artsyguy1954
10-26-2006, 07:50 PM
My ex wife would be proof of this theory.:D

chick
10-26-2006, 08:09 PM
Chick's hypothesis fails to account for female grumpiness at a young age. Her explanation assumes that younger women aren't grumpy, which contradicts the findings from Middlesex University's reported research.

Sorry dear. :)Most of Wise's articles indicate grumpiness in older persons - men and women, with that 1 study including younger women showing "anger" - similar across age groups. Nevertheless, the studies indicate increased "grumpiness" with increased age, for men and women, possibly a factor relating to hormonal changes with age and onset of menopause/decreased testosterone, adverse events, illness, etc., with these symptoms more often effecting women.

My "hypothesis" was specifically relating to RELATIONSHIP status. Older women being "grumpy" (per self-reported feelings and observed physiological changes), was in relation to this aspect being a possible factor. Young women being grumpy wasn't ignored, nor was there any assumption that young women aren't grumpy. ("more/less likely")

"Anger" in women of all ages can relate to many things, the triggers possibly being different but nonetheless relating to "anger". Possible triggers I noted were in relation to RELATIONSHIP status.

Sorry dear! :p

Health and well-being among married couples, or those in long-term relationships, and gender differences, has been studied and available in data-sphere if you're interested :)

leschinsky
10-26-2006, 08:36 PM
[/list]Older women tend to have been married more and for longer periods than single women. Therefore, having had to deal with men and having had to suffer the consequences of caring for and being burdened by men for longer time, older women/married are more likely to be "grumpier" waking up in the morning than younger/single women. Add to this: disturbed sleep due to snoring men. men waking up horny after full nights rest with a raging hard-on, needing "help" women who wake up happy but after turning over in bed to face their aging, beer-bellied, balding, flatulent lump next to them.... well.... ...is it any wonder?

Too funny chick :p That said, I'm not a morning person and there's no man around to blame that on.

Hunker
10-26-2006, 08:44 PM
Both are gumpy that is what makes it work.

brocko
10-26-2006, 08:46 PM
Too funny chick :p That said, I'm not a morning person and there's no man around to blame that on.

Maybe having a fella around to worship you in the AM would gruntle your mood!

leschinsky
10-26-2006, 09:12 PM
Maybe having a fella around to worship you in the AM would gruntle your mood!

Possibly! Do you think you can find one for me?

Myc0
10-26-2006, 11:49 PM
NOBODY is grumpier than me in the morning.

Broknwing
10-27-2006, 12:00 AM
NOBODY is grumpier than me in the morning.
Don't be so sure....I'm not a pleasant person in the morning...hence why I opt not to wake before noon unless absolutely necesary :p

Wise Young
10-27-2006, 10:18 AM
The responses seem to support the thesis. I wonder what the grumpiness quotient of people with spinal cord injury is. Wise.

adi chicago
10-27-2006, 10:39 AM
My ex wife would be proof of this theory.:D
my ex wife too:)

Leif
10-27-2006, 10:51 AM
The trick is to find the one that makes one ungrumpy I guess, goes both ways, and to replace them when the real grumpiness kicks in Lol. And if one is living alone does grumpy really matter, what is the point with grumpiness towards oneself morning after morning?

Robynbird569
10-27-2006, 11:04 AM
Originally Posted by chick
Older women tend to have been married more and for longer periods than single women. Therefore, having had to deal with men and having had to suffer the consequences of caring for and being burdened by men for longer time, older women/married are more likely to be "grumpier" waking up in the morning than younger/single women. Add to this:
disturbed sleep due to snoring men.
men waking up horny after full nights rest with a raging hard-on, needing "help"
women who wake up happy but after turning over in bed to face their aging, beer-bellied, balding, flatulent lump next to them.... well.......is it any wonder?


Thats just to funny Chick:applaud:
Anyhow I am not a morning person. Everyone knows not to talk to me right away because there is nothing worse than being bombarded with questions and such when I am not fully awake and focused yet. So I try to get up before everyone else and get the java in me to face these ppl I live with.

chick
10-27-2006, 11:35 AM
The responses seem to support the thesis. I wonder what the grumpiness quotient of people with spinal cord injury is. Wise.Seems to be pretty mixed according to gender. I think I am pretty ok in the mornings, despite very little sleep many nights. I may be a bit sluggish and slow at first, but not grumped. Who pops outta bed all chipper and fresh always?

I know many who get grumpy when heated or hungry too. People are just way too easily irritated :p

It would be interesting to see grumpiness in SCI pop. Given all the medical/health/care issues which are (in)directly related to SCI, in particular the much research supporting the lack of and disturbed sleep patterns among SCI's, I think it would be fair to say (w/legitimate cause) that many SCI's are grumpy-like in the mornings, both genders.

Leif, right. Does it matter if wake up alone? Ummm.... but then again, maybe yes, if that grumpiness follows you throughout the day and affects your day and relationships/interactions with others. I think then that it is not so much the grumpy factor alone, but the reasons/causes for one to feel so angry, unhappy or generally blah, or "grumpy" in the mornings, that's important to understand.

Anyway, I still think the Relationship status/Factor probably plays a role :)
See.... I'm single and ungrumpy (les, I may blame that on having no man around!) :p... AND old... eh hem.. errr oldER! :)

davesgirl aka anty
10-27-2006, 11:41 AM
I am up early with 2 kids going to school. I am just happy to be alive when i open my eyes in the morning :) anty

chick
10-27-2006, 12:56 PM
Anty, yes, having responsibilities that come with motherhood and parenting would have much effect on women (generally more on women than men). Understandably, effecting sleep and rest.

Wise, re testosterone effect on "grumpiness", and possible impact on SCI'd persons, it seems that if there is lower testosterone in SCI (men in particular, per provided studies in link below), then that may have some influence in the "grumpyiness quotient" among male SCI. But, metabolic changes in SCI persons are due to so many things, incl. aging (as is in general pop), but the factors that impact people in general would most likely impact SCI'd at earlier ages/stages and in greater degrees. Then again, any "mellowing" in men, in part due to lowered testosterone, might be countered by all the other stress and grump-inducing variables (such as decreased sleep, care and health problems, pain, etc) relating to SCI.
Lower testosterone and SCI? (http://sci.rutgers.edu/forum/showthread.php?t=5015)

FoolishOld was also wondering about a link between SCI and Rage/Aggression (http://sci.rutgers.edu/forum/showthread.php?t=70932) (specifically, if there is direct neurologic link). I thought it might be good subject for SCIENCE. :)

Wise Young
10-27-2006, 01:56 PM
Anty, yes, having responsibilities that come with motherhood and parenting would have much effect on women (generally more on women than men). Understandably, effecting sleep and rest.

Wise, re testosterone effect on "grumpiness", and possible impact on SCI'd persons, it seems that if there is lower testosterone in SCI (men in particular, per provided studies in link below), then that may have some influence in the "grumpyiness quotient" among male SCI. But, metabolic changes in SCI persons are due to so many things, incl. aging (as is in general pop), but the factors that impact people in general would most likely impact SCI'd at earlier ages/stages and in greater degrees. Then again, any "mellowing" in men, in part due to lowered testosterone, might be countered by all the other stress and grump-inducing variables (such as decreased sleep, care and health problems, pain, etc) relating to SCI.
Lower testosterone and SCI? (http://sci.rutgers.edu/forum/showthread.php?t=5015)

FoolishOld was also wondering about a link between SCI and Rage/Aggression (http://sci.rutgers.edu/forum/showthread.php?t=70932) (specifically, if there is direct neurologic link). I thought it might be good subject for SCIENCE. :)

Yes, I agree. Incidentally, SCI also reduces estrogen levels in women. It would be interesting to see what the grumpiness quotient in men and women. If lowered sex hormones is responsible for grumpiness, we should have the worst grumps here.

Let me look for a neurologic link between SCI and Rage/Aggression.

Wise.

Myc0
10-27-2006, 01:58 PM
I've always been a creature of the night, so I've never been a morning person. My SCI has definately exacerbated my mo(u)rning loathing.

Hunker
10-27-2006, 02:45 PM
I always and up early and even in High School I was the " waker upper" in my group every morning.:)

Lindox
10-27-2006, 03:03 PM
The groups are not distinguished and compared by relationship status- single or married, etc.

We know that married men are generally healthier and happier than unmarried men, and married men healthier and happier than married women.

Men in relationships seem better off than women in same. This account for: less stress, better diet, more sex, more freq. Dr. visits, etc., contributing to healthier men.
Thus, better sleep patterns and more restful sleep among men.
Older women tend to have been married more and for longer periods than single women. Therefore, having had to deal with men and having had to suffer the consequences of caring for and being burdened by men for longer time, older women/married are more likely to be "grumpier" waking up in the morning than younger/single women. Add to this: disturbed sleep due to snoring men. men waking up horny after full nights rest with a raging hard-on, needing "help" women who wake up happy but after turning over in bed to face their aging, beer-bellied, balding, flatulent lump next to them.... well.... ...is it any wonder?

Totally hysterical!

CapnGimp
10-27-2006, 03:13 PM
I ALWAYS woke up needing 'help' in the morning (spot-on chick!), before injury, lol. No better way to start a chipper day. Just seemed like by the time I got home from work, that happy woman I left at home had been replaced by a grumpy old nag about 4 out of 7 days. I have NEVER been a grouchy person, until sci...those days you wake up with various sci related problems are the worst. Second are those days someone wakes you with a stupid phone call, that was unnecessary had the caller used their head for something besides growing hair. Other than that, I'm still spry and wily when I wake up, but alas, don't need 'help' since my injury. I NOW control my life with my 'bigger' head :D

leschinsky
10-27-2006, 06:35 PM
Seems to be pretty mixed according to gender. I think I am pretty ok in the mornings, despite very little sleep many nights. I may be a bit sluggish and slow at first, but not grumped. Who pops outta bed all chipper and fresh always?

I know many who get grumpy when heated or hungry too. People are just way too easily irritated :p

It would be interesting to see grumpiness in SCI pop. Given all the medical/health/care issues which are (in)directly related to SCI, in particular the much research supporting the lack of and disturbed sleep patterns among SCI's, I think it would be fair to say (w/legitimate cause) that many SCI's are grumpy-like in the mornings, both genders.

Leif, right. Does it matter if wake up alone? Ummm.... but then again, maybe yes, if that grumpiness follows you throughout the day and affects your day and relationships/interactions with others. I think then that it is not so much the grumpy factor alone, but the reasons/causes for one to feel so angry, unhappy or generally blah, or "grumpy" in the mornings, that's important to understand.

Anyway, I still think the Relationship status/Factor probably plays a role :)
See.... I'm single and ungrumpy (les, I may blame that on having no man around!) :p... AND old... eh hem.. errr oldER! :)

In my own defense, I more sluggish (I blame the meds) than grumpy in the morning, especially in the last few months. It helps to have something to really look forward to in your day. :)

Steven Edwards
10-27-2006, 06:40 PM
I wake up all full of p*ss and vinegar. :p

Hunker
10-27-2006, 06:48 PM
I get up one hour earlier than anyone.I like the time to myself.

NoDecafPlz
10-27-2006, 07:15 PM
We should have qualified this poll to reflect
how many SINGLE women wake up grumpy and ALONE.

I bet you the men's side wouldn't budge, unless a cooked
breakfast were included of course. There could be an additional bonus if she cooked in the raw-maybe.

Next study on the fairer gender we cross-poll to select for grumpiness as due to over multi-tasking.

:mega:

J.

Hunker
10-27-2006, 07:38 PM
We should have qualified this poll to reflect
how many SINGLE women wake up grumpy and ALONE.

I bet you the men's side wouldn't budge, unless a cooked
breakfast were included of course. There could be an additional bonus if she cooked in the raw-maybe.

Next study on the fairer gender we cross-poll to select for grumpiness as due to over multi-tasking.

:mega:

J.
I was a single Dad took my child @ 7:30 am then to school & work then pick up from child care and wash, cook, clothes etc. We both are grown and still get up early and "Party Downs" No Mom she was playing with wetbacks and cheating om my son as as a Mother.

Andy
10-27-2006, 07:42 PM
Ok, so I gather from this thread girls are nuts, no kidding!?!

Me, I guess I am grumpy until I down my pot of coffee in the morning, need something to get the metabolism going which improves my desire to deal with others

cathy j
10-27-2006, 08:22 PM
not in my house!
cj

Leif
10-28-2006, 09:59 AM
Leif, right. Does it matter if wake up alone? Ummm.... but then again, maybe yes, if that grumpiness follows you throughout the day and affects your day and relationships/interactions with others. I think then that it is not so much the grumpy factor alone, but the reasons/causes for one to feel so angry, unhappy or generally blah, or "grumpy" in the mornings, that's important to understand.

Anyway, I still think the Relationship status/Factor probably plays a role :)
See.... I'm single and ungrumpy (les, I may blame that on having no man around!) :p... AND old... eh hem.. errr oldER! :)
I think you are right here and that one also has to keep in mind there are a distinction between light morning grumpiness and anger and unhappiness although there could be a connection. In relationships one reason for women living in relationships are grumpier could also be to the nature of how our societies are organized, most of our societies are arranged in a patriarchal way where men are in charge. This could generate a general frustration and anger in woman which builds up over time and comes to play especially with grumpiness towards the men in the morning. Thus, this does not necessarily mean that it is the men they are living with they are attacking but more the society as a whole. This can easily be tested if the woman is grumpy in the morning by the man in the relationship just taking a few "steps to the side" and then the grumpy beam from the woman will miss him and fly out the window and attach the society as a whole instead Lol. Maybe you would have been grumpier due to this if you had a man there LoL

rollin64
10-28-2006, 07:01 PM
before this sci i wasn't very grumpy in the mornings. i could get up with eyes wide open.

since sci, i try my best not to sound grumpy but on the inside i hate the world an everybody in it. waking up to the realization that i can't walk, knowing i'm gonna have to do the exact routine, bowel program on schedule and then.........THE PAIN, knowing i'm gonna be in pain until time to go back to bed. i wanna just roll back over and get into another dream and .......just........sleep. :(

edit: after i'm showered and dressed things kinda level out and i'm able to find my humor and smile. :)

cali
10-28-2006, 07:10 PM
i didn't vote because i don't know what to pick. in the morning, i am much quicker to get grumpy, but i don't wake up in that mood.

Leif
10-28-2006, 07:54 PM
i didn't vote because i don't know what to pick. in the morning, i am much quicker to get grumpy, but i don't wake up in that mood.
Typical morning bird! Is it morning?

adi chicago
10-28-2006, 08:29 PM
Typical morning bird! Is it morning?
i remmember a conversation beetwen an old friend and his wife regarding mornings and grumpiness.he told to his wife ......dam it if you wake up with your clitoris on the right side you are happy all day,if you wake up with the clitoris on the left side you are grumpy all day long.

Leif
10-28-2006, 08:35 PM
Have to remember that, but how will your study come out below equator and vice versa?

adi chicago
10-28-2006, 08:46 PM
Have to remember that, but how will your study come out below equator and vice versa?
i was a sailor as well before my injury [carnival cruise line]5 years.
i have been to the most exotics places on the world.
i should travel using a ship not a car.
because of cars and a idiot driver i am paralysed .

Wise Young
10-31-2006, 07:43 AM
From our small sample set, it appears that women are grumpier in the morning than men. Surprisingly, able-bodied women are the grumpiest of all and spinal-injured men are the least grumpy. We need more votes.

Wise.

Hunker
10-31-2006, 04:05 PM
I get grumpy at night maybe the poll should be put a different way? I know why women are grumpy in the morning is because they party all night. :)

betheny
10-31-2006, 04:19 PM
I get grumpy at night maybe the poll should be put a different way? I know why women are grumpy in the morning is because they party all night. :)

That's my story and I'm stickin' to it! :rotfl:

leschinsky
10-31-2006, 04:48 PM
From our small sample set, it appears that women are grumpier in the morning than men. Surprisingly, able-bodied women are the grumpiest of all and spinal-injured men are the least grumpy. We need more votes.

Wise.

I had not voted yet Wise because of the wording of the question since I am sleepy the first two hours of the morning but not in a bad mood. Although I just noticed you wrote "am female with SCI and I am bright-eyed, busy-tailed (e.g. not grumpy) when I awake"." Since you used e.g., for example, and not i.e., that is, can I deduce that the answer could include sluggish but not in a bad mood?

Leif
11-01-2006, 05:15 AM
Chick, Bet’ and Les’

http://www.bbc.co.uk/comedy/images/320/grumpyoldwomen.jpg

leschinsky
11-01-2006, 08:44 PM
Chick, Bet’ and Les’

http://www.bbc.co.uk/comedy/images/320/grumpyoldwomen.jpg

Hey older doesn't mean old! That said, I call the frying pan :p

adi chicago
11-01-2006, 09:50 PM
Hey older doesn't mean old! That said, I call the frying pan :p
just now i realised why i never had a breakfast served to me beeing in bed by a girl[except my mom and my sister]and hospital nurses of course.
too grumpy .....poor men:)

Rock
11-01-2006, 10:34 PM
You gotta love a woman who can dish it out though. :mega:

Wise Young
11-02-2006, 02:11 AM
I had not voted yet Wise because of the wording of the question since I am sleepy the first two hours of the morning but not in a bad mood. Although I just noticed you wrote "am female with SCI and I am bright-eyed, busy-tailed (e.g. not grumpy) when I awake"." Since you used e.g., for example, and not i.e., that is, can I deduce that the answer could include sluggish but not in a bad mood?

Les, you are right. I had put in parenthesis (e.g. not grumpy)... The term e.g or exempli gratia means "for example" whereas i.e. or id est which means to be the same as. Not grumpy is not the same as not bright-eyed, bushy-tailed. One example of not grumpy is to be bright-eyed and bushy-tailed. I agree that being sluggish is not precisely the same as being grumpy. But, I guess I was expressing a bias that being sluggish is a form of post-awakening malaise. So, I leave the choice to you.

Even though the sample set is small, it really does suggest that a larger percentage of women are grumpier than men in the mornings, regardless of spinal cord injury.

Wise.

antiquity
11-02-2006, 01:16 PM
I didn't vote either. I'm not bright eyed and bushy tailed but I'm not grumpy either, there is a medium. I am sluggish due to poor sleep patterns as chick mentioned because I have sleep apnea and often wake to a piercing headache and pounding heart but it doesn't make me pissy.

Leif
11-02-2006, 01:27 PM
More grumpy wimmins. Typical, words and no action :partyguy:

chick
11-02-2006, 01:42 PM
I chose not grumpy. Taking a few minutes to wipe my eyes, yawn, and adjust to low bp, may be sluggish or simply just a body waking up after sleeping and being prone too many hours.

Many men may be grumpy-like in the mornings but not be as likely to associate any emotional state with their "grumpy/sluggishness" simply because men are not as likely to identify (negative) emotion states as it relates to themselves. There may be many reasons for this, incl. possibly being less aware and conscious of Self, ignorance and/or denial, fear of stigma, sub-conscious fulfillment of stereotype (response to aforementioned factors), etc. Or to sum it up, just plain lazy, lethargic and clueless. :)

However, it seems from responses, there are many reactionary men, quick to reply with emotionally infused posts. :)

keps
11-02-2006, 02:00 PM
Me and my ab boyfriend are both grumpy for a while after waking.

But that's only to be expected; we are both British, after all. :D

chick
11-02-2006, 02:05 PM
Much of the responses in the studies relating to this, have respondents evaluating their states long after having woken up and after having been influenced by whatever conditions (esp. adverse) they had to endure after waking. This is particularly a factor when you look at women with children and families where the women are generally the care-takers and have a great deal of responsibilities in the morning. Add to that any additional pressures/stressors related to working mothers. Now add a disabling condition as SCI, and you compound stress that may impact self-reported eval. Even if one reports in a diary immediately after waking, before having had dealt with any stressors mentioned, just the knowledge one has in their responsibilities, including the anticipation of the work and burden ahead of them, can impact one's assessment and personal feeling state.

This relates to what I first posted in this thread, as well as Leif's points about social expectations/roles.

Leif
11-02-2006, 02:05 PM
However, it seems from responses, there are many reactionary men, quick to reply with emotionally infused posts. :)
Chick - You need more coffee to wake up here now. Still, when you wake up you ain’t too grumpy, in our little www village here I mean. More coffee coming here for the grumpy ole lady; - with our without sugar and milk my dear? Was a coffee offer clueless as for clueless above? :mega:

Ooops, seems I was too quick to reply here, didn’t see you edited. Still, coffee ain’t too bad.

chick
11-02-2006, 02:10 PM
Chick - You need more coffee to wake up here now. Still, when you wake up you ain’t too grumpy, in our little www village here I mean. More coffee coming here for the grumpy ole lady; - with our without sugar and milk my dear? Was a coffee offer clueless as for clueless above? :mega:

Ooops, seems I was too quick to reply here, didn’t see you edited. Still, coffee ain’t too bad.lol wha?? Leif, I think your inner child is acting out and pouting sumthin fierce :p

Yes, coffee is good.
Fat free lattee is even better ... which, btw, you still owe me :D

Leif
11-02-2006, 03:02 PM
lol wha?? Leif, I think your inner child is acting out and pouting sumthin fierce :p

Yes, coffee is good.
Fat free lattee is even better ... which, btw, you still owe me :D
Who me??? Inner child? No way, I am a typical blue-dress bureaucrat only interested in break-even money analysis during my work day, and when I finish work I prefer to sleep in my chesterfield with a newspaper over my head watching football on TV regardless of the interests of the missus (well nowadays, everything is gone; the grumpy miss, the grumpy job and the grumpy blue-dress I can’t find either lol). But, don’t you ever try to change that in your smart wordings here now Lol

Well, to be serious; as for this study, if it really was a study that could point out facts I’m not too sure. As you and others have said there are too many variables. As for variables in such studies to have something to say as for what or who I doubt it is not more than a study, still such studies are important. I guess if one disagree, everything that deals with the human brain and behaviour should be cancelled, I don’t believe in that, I believe that behaviour analysis is good for many things e.g. helping people to more adopt to different communities especially these days when so many people move around here on this earth due to different circumstances etc., and so on…. I personally have buddies that has no reason to be grumpy (don’t know about the mornings tough) and have a good life but still are, the same with women friends I have, but they seem to laugh more – maybe it is because of me?

Coffee and gangsta’s? Black boiled from water on the oven it must be, guess not, to longa time. But the coffee offer still stands. Got another new job the other day, well to make a long story short I’m invited with some researchers from here over to Texas next year, during the spring, how is Texas coffee? Well, if Texas let me in I’m there…, and Chicago gangsta country is as fare away as Antarctica to the North Pole in comparison to Texas I guess, or is it? And maybe I’ve criticized the sitting president too much here so there will be no coffee for me? Anyways, hope you got a cup of coffee and the “grumpiness” is gone by now Lol. :)

porchdog
11-02-2006, 03:30 PM
Morning is the best time for me. As the day passes my pain level elevates.
Sometimes I wake at night and if there is no pain I dont want to move, just enjoy sometime without pain.

chick
11-12-2006, 12:18 PM
Who me??? Inner child? No way, I am a typical blue-dress bureaucrat only interested in break-even money analysis during my work day, and when I finish work I prefer to sleep in my chesterfield with a newspaper over my head watching football on TV regardless of the interests of the missus (well nowadays, everything is gone; the grumpy miss, the grumpy job and the grumpy blue-dress I can’t find either lol). But, don’t you ever try to change that in your smart wordings here now LolI wouldn't dare try to change anything. What you were doing in a blue-dress....well, that's your bidness :)

Well, to be serious; as for this study, if it really was a study that could point out facts I’m not too sure. As you and others have said there are too many variables. As for variables in such studies to have something to say as for what or who I doubt it is not more than a study, still such studies are important. I guess if one disagree, everything that deals with the human brain and behavior should be canceled, I don’t believe in that, I believe that behavior analysis is good for many things e.g. helping people to more adopt to different communities especially these days when so many people move around here on this earth due to different circumstances etc., and so on…. I personally have buddies that has no reason to be grumpy (don’t know about the mornings tough) and have a good life but still are, the same with women friends I have, but they seem to laugh more – maybe it is because of me?Absolutely, the women could be laughing more because of you. This may be a good thing, as long as they aren't only laughing when you are in your blue-dress prancing around pretending to be a bear in drag.

Yes, can have great uses - incl., as you state, helping others adapt to different environments and situations. If through these studies on "grumpiness", there's better understanding why men/women differ, and the possible stressors involved and their consequences, people may then be helped in ways to live longer, healthier and happier lives. But, haven't there have been many studies on these types of issues? Yea, maybe. But what else we gonna spend money on, since we're not funding ESC huh? :p

Coffee and gangsta’s? Black boiled from water on the oven it must be, guess not, to longa time. But the coffee offer still stands. Got another new job the other day, well to make a long story short I’m invited with some researchers from here over to Texas next year, during the spring, how is Texas coffee? Well, if Texas let me in I’m there…, and Chicago gangsta country is as fare away as Antarctica to the North Pole in comparison to Texas I guess, or is it? And maybe I’ve criticized the sitting president too much here so there will be no coffee for me? Anyways, hope you got a cup of coffee and the “grumpiness” is gone by now Lol. :)Coffee might not be as great w/o the vodka while lounging atop the submarine deck observing brown bears, but a fresh brew is always great in taking a bit of chill out the Chicago winters. Hey, gangsta's are human too!

Awesome news about your job! (I'm assuming it's related to SCI and stem cell research?) You will have to follow-up with the Texas conference/meetings, as I'm sure you will, with your usual pictures :).

Oh, I can't be sure about the Texas coffee, as beans might come from different regions .... but I dunno, there just might be something in the Texas water, so be very very wary, k ? (warning: you might lose a few brain cells simply by crossing the border into Tx) Your criticism of the sitting president may have been well founded and warranted. Clearly, most Americans agreed :)

Hell, forget the coffee... if you help get the ESC restrictions lifted, I'll buy you enough vodka to bathe in. Just don't forget to wear your blue-dress (prancing may be negotiable).

Wise Young
11-12-2006, 03:56 PM
Well, our little poll is confirming that more men wake up not grumpy in the morning than women, whether spinal-injured or not. About half of the women who have responded in the poll indicate that they are grumpy in the morning while about a third men say that they are. It is interesting, however, that more people with spinal cord injury say that they wake up grumpy than the previously reported study. Unfortunately, we have too few responders who don't have spinal cord injury to see whether this is true of our community, but 3 of 7 non-spinal-injured people in our polls wake up grumpy in the morning, more than the usual number in the general population. This may be because caregivers don't sleep well and wake up grumpy. Wise.