Murderball

[Kimberly24]

Does anyone else besides me feel like Murderball was an amazing movie, and was really not given a chance by the american people? I mean, it was slathered all over late night talk shows about how great it was, and then when released, went FLOP...DVD upon DVD of Murderball has been collecting dust on the clearance rack at Blockbuster for months now. It has even been reduced to 2.50. I suggested to a friend of mine too watch it, and she had no clue of what it even was....It was so sad to see the guy who created the moove(I forgett his name) all excited and stuff promoting his movie, and it ended up a dud. Do you think that there was a hype bby the TV industry only because they felt they HAD to promote this movie since their arent really movies with disabled peoplle in them? Just curious. Have a beautiful day.

[Patonb]

I actually wasn't thrille with it. It was goosd to showcase quad rugby, but the rest of the movie made us complete quads look bad. The highest level was like c6or7 incomplete.
I think there needed a bit more in the "What a quad is" deptartment.

But other than that, it was like watching Americian Chopper, with all the fighting.

There was a HUGE thread last year if yo7 haven't seen it yet.

[SCI-Nurse]

It wasn't marketed right, and also, the general public does NOT want to see films about disability. It makes them too aware of their own vulnerability and scares the s**t out of them, so they avoid any films like this. Also, it was a documentary...death to most films in the area of making a commercial success. It will be interesting to see if the new fictional film The Goal (http://www.thegoal-movie.com) will be any more successful (I doubt it).

Murderball was successful on the film festival circuit. Many good films are made every year (many even win major film festival awards like Murderball) that never even get a distribution deal. The minimum costs (in addition to the costs for making the film) to distribute a film in the USA is around $30 million (rights, marketing, duplication, etc.), and you just are not finding distributors who will put up that kind of money for a film that is unlikely to be a commercial success. We see great films all the time at the Cinema Society I belong to that will never get USA distribution.

Any yes, we did discuss this here ad nauseum over year ago when Murderball first came out. A lot of people on this forum also found the film uncomfortable to watch, so it was not even a success within the disability community.

(KLD)

[Myc0]

Murderball is fantastic, and I don't usually like sports movies. When I first saw the poster for it at Sheperd I thought it was some kind of lame sci-fi/horror film from the name. But I thought it was really well done and compelling and have reccomended it to everyone I know. I played a game of Quad Rugby while I was at Sheperd, but they duct-taped my hands into fists to even it out since I'm para. Figures, the one sport that I could still play and enjoy I'm not disabled ENOUGH to qualify for.

[orangejello]

Murderball was successful on the film festival circuit. Many good films are made every year (many even win major film festival awards like Murderball) that never even get a distribution deal.

It's interesting. I first saw the movie at the annual international film festival in my city. It was a great success--both screenings sold out. Due to the great response at the festival, one of the independent theatres brought it back for a planned four week run. It was a disaster and they yanked it after two weeks because ticket sales were terrible. That isn't uncommon though, because the film festivals often attract a different type of audience--although it always amazes me that people will go to these films if they are shown as part of a "festival", but they won't just go see them for regular showings. This is a rant I have been on for several years. Plus as kld also mentioned, documentaries generally do not do very well, whatever the subject matter. You get the rare one like March of the Penguins, but it doesn't happen very often.

Another thing I found interesting about Murderball was that I saw it with a friend who is a C6 quad and actively participates in a number of sports, some of them quite extreme in nature. I was able bodied at the time and I thought the film okay, although it wasn't something I would watch a second time. But he absolutely hated it for a number of reasons. He ranted about it for days lol.

I watched it a few weeks ago mainly because it was the only thing around I could find and a visiting friend of mine hadn't seen it before. My feelings on it hadn't changed watching it as somebody with an injury. I still think it was a mediocre documentary.

[Jeepin]

I liked it.

[harley-lynn]

I really liked the movie...I kept hearing about Quad Rugby and I was wondering how the game was played and the movie explained how...I would like to attend a real game if I could...

[Juke_spin]

Does anyone else besides me feel like Murderball was an amazing movie, and was really not given a chance by the american people? I mean, it was slathered all over late night talk shows about how great it was, and then when released, went FLOP...DVD upon DVD of Murderball has been collecting dust on the clearance rack at Blockbuster for months now. It has even been reduced to 2.50. I suggested to a friend of mine too watch it, and she had no clue of what it even was....It was so sad to see the guy who created the moove(I forgett his name) all excited and stuff promoting his movie, and it ended up a dud. Do you think that there was a hype bby the TV industry only because they felt they HAD to promote this movie since their arent really movies with disabled peoplle in them? Just curious. Have a beautiful day.
Hi and welcome, Kimberly. I see you joined back in January and have only just now made your first post. Wow. Congratulations.

The documantary movie you've commented on was the subject of intense and often bitter debate months ago. Here's a link to the main thread in which it was discussed:
http://sci.rutgers.edu/forum/showthread.php?t=57959&highlight=MarK+Zupan

Good luck; it's nice to have you aboard.:)

[Jeff B]

The trailers for that movie The Goal have more cheese than an extra large pizza.

I'm not sure why the ability to play quad rugby is supposed to make everything ok and be inspirational. You wouldn't see some guy with cancer playing badminton and get all teared up. "Sure he's really sick but look at that drop shot! I have a feeling that everything is going to be alright."

[croman18]

ok The Goal wow..stinkbomb in the making sorry

and Murderball like someone said definitly doesnt portray all quads especailly lower leveled, which erks me..but it was interesting to watch at least 1 time

[Kimberly24]

Wow. Thanks for responding so quickly. I did join a while ago, but was laid up for several months, and then it became summer..lol....and here it is fall, and I am just remembering about this site. I really appreciate you responding to me,lol. It jut irked me the other day when a friend of mine haado idea what Murderball even was. I was kind of offended though I dont know why. I lookk fward to getting to know this site and itts people.
Thanks:)

[fuentejps]

GREAT FLICK. i think it just showed what a quad can be. i mean seriously, u cant make a movie about a high dependant quad, they cant do anything, it doesnt inspire anybody. no offense.
this movie showed guys in relationships, getting laid and living good, fun and productive lives..

[Cherry]

I'm not sure why the ability to play quad rugby is supposed to make everything ok and be inspirational. You wouldn't see some guy with cancer playing badminton and get all teared up. "Sure he's really sick but look at that drop shot! I have a feeling that everything is going to be alright."

Agreed from the small part I saw of it.

[Cherry]

GREAT FLICK. i think it just showed what a quad can be. i mean seriously, u cant make a movie about a high dependant quad, they cant do anything, it doesnt inspire anybody. no offense.
this movie showed guys in relationships, getting laid and living good, fun and productive lives..

WTH :thinking: I happen to know a high quad who is the most intelligent guy I have ever encountered. He accomplishes great feats......with his MIND. Far more inspirational to me than tossing a velcroed ball around a court.

How narrow-minded

[orangejello]

.....

[chick]

GREAT FLICK. i think it just showed what a quad can be. i mean seriously, u cant make a movie about a high dependant quad, they cant do anything, it doesnt inspire anybody. no offense.
this movie showed guys in relationships, getting laid and living good, fun and productive lives..Yes you can.

Rory O'Shea Was Here.

Great Film and story. Not contrived or with forced and manufactured sympathy. Not a "feel good" story about tough strong quads living the good life, but funny, sad, touching, and sometimes brutal, glimpse into lives of 2 tough kick ass crips who just have to deal....

You don't need Crips to shout out how great and independent they are, to "prove" their strength and worth....

Many simply live it and reveal their strength in quiet but undeniably powerful ways.

[Jeff B]

Yes you can.

Rory O'Shea Was Here.

Great Film and story. Not contrived or with forced and manufactured sympathy. Not a "feel good" story about tough strong quads living the good life, but funny, sad, touching, and sometimes brutal, glimpse into lives of 2 tough kick ass crips who just have to deal....


But did they win a shiny trophy at the end of the movie?;)

[Jim]

Murderball is a good thing because it got a lot of people to come out and play rugby that wouldn't have otherwise.

[orangejello]

GREAT FLICK. i think it just showed what a quad can be. i mean seriously, u cant make a movie about a high dependant quad, they cant do anything, it doesnt inspire anybody. no offense.
this movie showed guys in relationships, getting laid and living good, fun and productive lives..

I am wondering: is this need of yours to put down and disparage anybody who doesn't fit into your deluded view of "the super quad" something pathological? Or is it just plain old fashioned rudeness?

Just a question from somebody who "can't do anything"....

[paramoto]

But did they win a shiny trophy at the end of the movie?;)

No, actually Rory dies at the end.

I was up late one night recently and saw a movie with Wesley Snipes, Helen Hunt and other pretty good actors about life in a rehab facility. It was pretty interesting eventhough I feel a little uncomfortable when movies show a bit too much about our lives to AB people. In one scene he is making love to his girlfriend and the bag leaks and he pisses all over the bed. Yikes. Still an interesting, emotional movie to me.

[2jazzyjeff]

i enjoyed the movie and the fact that it showed that some quads can still play organized sports.. after the screening Mark Zupan was there for a Q and A. what a terrible speaker he is.. being a graduate of Georgia Tech, you'd think that he could get thru his answers w/o so much profanity. after seeing the guys on Larry King and other things, i really lost interest in them.

[fuentejps]

I am wondering: is this need of yours to put down and disparage anybody who doesn't fit into your deluded view of "the super quad" something pathological? Or is it just plain old fashioned rudeness?

Just a question from somebody who "can't do anything"....
NOT PUTTING ANYONE DOWN, JUST THINKING OUTSIDE THE BOX. AGAIN JUST MY OPINION.

[orangejello]

NOT PUTTING ANYONE DOWN, JUST THINKING OUTSIDE THE BOX. AGAIN JUST MY OPINION.

But it's your opinion about what? Humour me for a moment here and please explain what "can't do anything" entails? Because I don't understand that part of your "opinion." What do you think a person should be able to do that would make their life "important" or "interesting" in your eyes?

I am actually very interested in hearing what you can offer in response. What's the most important part of a person--their body or their mind? Is it better to be able to wipe up your own feces than to get a graduate degree? The types of quads you are sterotyping can do one, but not the other. Is that "not being able to do anything?"

Just one example. I am sure you will refute this and any others I could offer you.

[Jeff B]

If you can't flop yourself into a wheelchair like a sack of meat and run your wheelchair into other wheelchairs hard then you are boring.;)

[fuentejps]

But it's your opinion about what? Humour me for a moment here and please explain what "can't do anything" entails? Because I don't understand that part of your "opinion." What do you think a person should be able to do that would make their life "important" or "interesting" in your eyes?

I am actually very interested in hearing what you can offer in response. What's the most important part of a person--their body or their mind? Is it better to be able to wipe up your own feces than to get a graduate degree? The types of quads you are sterotyping can do one, but not the other. Is that "not being able to do anything?"

Just one example. I am sure you will refute this and any others I could offer you.
MY POINT. THE MURDERBALL GUYS AND GUYS LIKE THEM ARE MORE INSPIRING TO MAINSTREAM SOCIETY. U CERTAINLY CANT ARGUE THAT.

[orangejello]

MY POINT. THE MURDERBALL GUYS AND GUYS LIKE THEM ARE MORE INSPIRING TO MAINSTREAM SOCIETY. U CERTAINLY CANT ARGUE THAT.

I see you didn't answer my question lol. That's okay. That was what I expected from you.:agog:

But for the record I didn't ask you who was more inspiring. I asked you what "can't do anything" means.

Actually I would argue with your above assertion. The people I saw the film with (one C six quad and three able bodied people) certainly didn't seem all that inspired by it. I wasn't all that inspired by it then and I am still not inspired by it. Some people were, and that is great. How many able bodied viewers would say they were truly inspired by it, I don't know. And I am guessing you don't either. We could both speculate and generalize, but that is all.

It's great that people like Zupan do what they do. All the power to them. But as somebody else already pointed out, there are many more ways of being inspirational than being able to throw around a velcro ball and bash your chair into somebody else (I am guessing I will take flack for this statement, but oh well). I am not putting down quad rugby players or fans. You can certainly argue that quad rugby is a way to achieve goals, collect experiences, and inspire others. It is one way. But it's not the only way and it's in the eye of the beholder whether or not it is the best way. For Mark Zupan it might be. For others, quad rugby means nothing. I am guessing for a large portion of the able bodied population, it actually does mean nothing in their universe. And so what?

I am much more inspired by people like trainman and Brooke Ellison than I am by the people profiled in murder ball. And I would venture that asked the question, many able bodied people would find finishing college degrees and devoting yourself to helping others--as both these individuals have done--as much more inspirational than playing quad rugby, even if it is played at a world class level.

(Sorry J. for dragging you into this.)

[rfbdorf]

I expect that the basis for much of the above discussion lies in the diversity of the SCI population. It covers the gamut, from those who go to a demolition derby to those who would rather go to the ballet; workouts at the gym to writing a Ph.D. thesis; gold medals to Nobel prizes.
No-one is spared, dammit, but take your inspiration from wherever you can get it.
- Richard

[Buck_Nastier]

i enjoyed the movie and the fact that it showed that some quads can still play organized sports.. after the screening Mark Zupan was there for a Q and A. what a terrible speaker he is.. being a graduate of Georgia Tech, you'd think that he could get thru his answers w/o so much profanity. after seeing the guys on Larry King and other things, i really lost interest in them.

I agree, he sounds like an idiot.

I met Andy Cones and Scott Hogsett in Phoenix and they acted like
they didn't want to be there.

Good movie though.

[croman18]

no what orangejello is saying is..SCI c4 and with no ability to move can do things still..either way she could still not use her brains or movement, shes beautiful..she can just go off and win beauty contest

I expect that the basis for much of the above discussion lies in the diversity of the SCI population. It covers the gamut, from those who go to a demolition derby to those who would rather go to the ballet; workouts at the gym to writing a Ph.D. thesis; gold medals to Nobel prizes.
No-one is spared, dammit, but take your inspiration from wherever you can get it.
- Richard

[Chaz19]

I am much more inspired by people like trainman and Brooke Ellison than I am by the people profiled in murder ball. And I would venture that asked the question, many able bodied people would find finishing college degrees and devoting yourself to helping others--as both these individuals have done--as much more inspirational than playing quad rugby, even if it is played at a world class level.

(Sorry J. for dragging you into this.)


I hear you. People like Brooke Ellison and Jesse Bilar (sic) should be applauded for their bravery, perseverance and compassion. they both have continue to further awareness of the injury in a positive light and spotlight and raise funds for potential restorative therapies.

So what if a few guys can throw ball back and forth -- regardless of disability or whatever -- but aggravates me about some of these folks is that they continue with the injury is" no big deal" and stereotype many of us as risktakers/alcoholics who fell the wrong way... no one is perfect and I'm sure everyone has had their fair share of indiscretions, but.instead all I saw in their interviews was a show of bravado -- and inflated egos.

it would've been nice if they mentioned at least once nationally about research and rehabilitation of the injury.
But that's just my take --

[Buck_Nastier]

it would've been nice if they mentioned at least once nationally about research and rehabilitation of the injury.

But that's just my take --


My take too. Not one word about research, rehab, or a cure.

In fact, on Larry King Live, Larry King asked Mark Zupan if he was
for stem cell research and a cure. Zupan said "I don't know anything
about it, but I love my life".

All that national attention and nothing positive was said about
research.

[brocko]

i mean seriously, u cant make a movie about a high dependant quad, they cant do anything, it doesnt inspire anybody.

I think you mean YOU can't make a movie about a high quad. Just because a c2/3/4 can't play with radio toy cars doesn't mean people other than yourself won't find them inspiring, for a multitude of reasons that you obviously have no awareness of.

Nerfball bores me to tears.

[Tiger Racing]

In fact, on Larry King Live, Larry King asked Mark Zupan if he was
for stem cell research and a cure. Zupan said "I don't know anything
about it, but I love my life".

All that national attention and nothing positive was said about
research.
So every person with a disability who gets a camera shoved in their face should be required to ask strangers for money to support a cure? We're all poster children?

I don't like that idea. I get interviewed all the time and I can honestly say that a cure is not one of the topics that I typically bring up. I am more concerned with living my life now, than I am with worrying about being cured in 5 or 10 or 20 yrs. I want to be treated with respect and have the same options and opportunities as most people. On a daily basis, I don't want to be seen as pathetic OR as inspirational. Both make us "other" and that's not a feeling I enjoy.

C.

[Tiger Racing]

No, actually Rory dies at the end.
Geez! Seriously? Why would you post a spoiler like this? I typically avoid "inspirational" films, but I watched the trailer and actually thought this movie looked funny enough to rent. I don't know if you were being flippant or if you did give away the end of the movie, but if you did, maybe you could take that part out of your post. The other movie you talk about (The Waterdance) has been out for years and years, but this one is fairly new and I bet I'm not the only one here who hasn't seen it yet, but may like to.

C.

[orangejello]

I expect that the basis for much of the above discussion lies in the diversity of the SCI population. It covers the gamut, from those who go to a demolition derby to those who would rather go to the ballet; workouts at the gym to writing a Ph.D. thesis; gold medals to Nobel prizes.
No-one is spared, dammit, but take your inspiration from wherever you can get it.
- Richard

The point I was trying to make but basically just danced around :)

I wasn't knocking those who find inspiration or enjoyment in quad rugby or the film. I was trying to address fuente's specific comments and inferences. My comments were directed at that, not at the general sci or able bodied communities and where each person might find inspiration.

I am just pointing this out because you quoted me before making your comments and I want to make my motivation for posting what I did clear. I think my comments were taking out a little out of context by leaving out the paragraph above the quoted text.

[leschinsky]

I expect that the basis for much of the above discussion lies in the diversity of the SCI population. It covers the gamut, from those who go to a demolition derby to those who would rather go to the ballet; workouts at the gym to writing a Ph.D. thesis; gold medals to Nobel prizes.
No-one is spared, dammit, but take your inspiration from wherever you can get it.
- Richard
Richard as usual the voice of reason.

Note to those who say "no offense" after saying something completely offensive, that does not negate the effect.

[Buck_Nastier]

So every person with a disability who gets a camera shoved in their face should be required to ask strangers for money to support a cure? We're all poster children?

The camera wasn't "shoved" in Zupan's face, he enjoyed every
minute of his fame.

He was asked directly about a cure for his injury and spinal cord
injury research, he ignored the opportunity to bring a little attention
to the research.


I don't like that idea. I get interviewed all the time and I can honestly say that a cure is not one of the topics that I typically bring up. I am more concerned with living my life now, than I am with worrying about being cured in 5 or 10 or 20 yrs. I want to be treated with respect and have the same options and opportunities as most people. On a daily basis, I don't want to be seen as pathetic OR as inspirational. Both make us "other" and that's not a feeling I enjoy.

C.

Good for you, i'm happy to hear you living your life. If someone asks
you how you feel about stem cell research (like Larry King asked
Zupan), your answer is "i'm more concerned with living my life,
nevermind what will happen 5, 10, or 20 years down the road". That
is a great answer.

Christopher Reeve was both inspirational and a big advocate for sci
research, what is wrong with that?

[2jazzyjeff]

I get interviewed all the time and I can honestly say that a cure is not one of the topics that I typically bring up.the big difference with this is the fact that you have been injured 19 years.. you are most likely satisfied with your life in a chair whereas those of us that are younger and not many years post are more hopeful in a chance of some recovery. if someone interviewed me all the time, i would have to say that i would be blue in the face from bringing up cure talk.

who interviews you all the time and why? what are some of the topics?

[Wheelie_girl_]

What I didn't like about the movie was it was all about GUYS in chair... sci women had no place AT ALL ... bunch of insecure mach guys... it made the rest nice guys in chair looks like an asshole:nono:

[2jazzyjeff]

WG, not sure if you know, but everyone has an equal oppurtunity of making the team..even women, as far as i remember.. :thinking:

just looked it up...

10. Can women play? Absolutely. This is one of the few sports that allow both men and women to compete together on an equal basis.


http://www.murderball.quadrugby.com/faqs.html

[Wheelie_girl_]

The camera wasn't "shoved" in Zupan's face, he enjoyed every
minute of his fame.

He was asked directly about a cure for his injury and spinal cord
injury research, he ignored the opportunity to bring a little attention
to the research.



Good for you, i'm happy to hear you living your life. If someone asks
you how you feel about stem cell research (like Larry King asked
Zupan), your answer is "i'm more concerned with living my life,
nevermind what will happen 5, 10, or 20 years down the road". That
is a great answer.

Christopher Reeve was both inspirational and a big advocate for sci
research, what is wrong with that?

I loved Chris and Dana... they were both great ...but did you see his face a few months before dying? everyone , at least here, said he was the victim of the experiemental drugs and thats why he got a bit movement back...

[betheny]

Note to those who say "no offense" after saying something completely offensive, that does not negate the effect.

:applaud:

[Jim]

We have a woman on our team.

[Tiger Racing]

The camera wasn't "shoved" in Zupan's face, he enjoyed every minute of his fame.
You know what I meant. Is your response that if one enjoys fame that one must be an advocate for SCI cure research? What about when the cameras are off? Does every person with a disability have to represent for cure research to the people they encounter or do you just not like it when famous people fall short of this?

He was asked directly about a cure for his injury and spinal cord
injury research, he ignored the opportunity to bring a little attention to the research.
He said he didn't know anything about it. What was he supposed to do, lie? It sounds like you require everyone with a disability to be actively concerned with a cure. There are a million issues in the world. Everything from the environment, to genocide, to child abuse, to breast cancer. I don't like the idea that just because someone uses a wheelchair that they are required to be informed about and advocate for specific research. Are all black people supposed to speak up about civil rights? Should all women donate money to breast cancer research? Do you see what I'm saying here?

Good for you, i'm happy to hear you living your life. If someone asks you how you feel about stem cell research (like Larry King asked Zupan), your answer is "i'm more concerned with living my life, nevermind what will happen 5, 10, or 20 years down the road". That is a great answer.
Wait a second. You misunderstand me. I didn't imply anything like that. I'll repeat myself and expand.

When I am interviewed, cure research is not typically a topic I bring up. I am more concerned with, note that I did not say only concerned with, quality of life issues than I am with something that I do not believe will directly impact many lives for at least another decade. Accessibility and public awareness are my immediate concerns in connection to my disability. That is not to say that if I am asked about research in general or stem cells in particular that I refuse to answer. I happen to be fairly well informed in this area and support ESC research, but that's me. I don't condemn anyone else for having other interests or in being educated in different ways.

Christopher Reeve was both inspirational and a big advocate for sci research, what is wrong with that?
Oh, dear, like I'm not already unpopular enough around here. This isn't going to help.

I'm never been on the Christopher Reeve bandwagon. I'm sorry the man suffered, I'm sorry he died young and I do appreciate much of what he did while he was alive, but I didn't like all of his methods and and felt that when he was initially injured and only pushing for a cure, he actually had a negative impact on quality of life for people with disabilities.

I was injured almost a decade before Reeve and not only did I feel that I was in many ways fortunate to become handicapped at the point in history that it was, but I also saw great improvements in the following years. The ADA was passed, scientists around the world were discovering that regrowth of the CNS was not the impossibility they had long believed it to be, there was major innovation in technology benefitting people with disabilities and public awareness and acceptance were growing rapidly. I saw a decided downturn in that public awareness after Reeve's accident.

I remember reading a quote from Reeve's first, public speech after he was injured wherein he stated that a cure was needed in order to "restore our pride and dignity". That really pissed me off. I had plenty of pride, regardless of my handicap, and so did the rest of the people that I knew who were in similar situations. Unfortunately, the general public embraced Christopher Reeve wholeheartedly and accepted the notion that he was speaking for all of us. It seemed like overnight AB people went back to feelig sorry for anyone they saw using a wheelchair and they assumed we were all pathetic and dependent and that our lives were barely worth living.

Based on that, I wasn't in the least bit inspired by Reeve. It was a relief a few years later when he finally figured out that a cure wasn't imminent and that making life better while we are still handicapped was a pressing issue. Don't get me wrong, I want a cure as much as the next guy. I'm just not willing to sacrifice my current happiness for the possibility of some neurological improvement in the not so immediate future.

Oh, and just FTR, I blame the APA for using Christopher Reeve and pushing him into the spotlight so soon after his accident. I believe they treated him like a prop in the beginning, before he and his family had time to adjust at all or educate themselves about disability as a whole.

C.

[JDR]

Murderball was good but it could have been better. The rugby scenes were awesome but some of the crap in-between could have been left out.

I met Zupan when they screened Murderball at NCSU this past spring. He's exactly what you see on the movie.

During the Q&A session at the end, I asked him the question about not taking the cure if it were available. He repeated his answer to me...he likes his life and wouldn't take it. I call bullshit on that one.

He doesn't want to be an advocate, and that's cool...to each his/her own. Every disabled person put in the spotlight does not have to be an advocate for the cure...but it's cool when they do.

Overall, Murderball does a great job of promoting quad rugby and I think that it was/is good for our community.

[Tiger Racing]

the big difference with this is the fact that you have been injured 19 years.. you are most likely satisfied with your life in a chair whereas those of us that are younger and not many years post are more hopeful in a chance of some recovery.
Close. I'm sure that my level of injury directly affects my quality of life and therefore my relative acceptance of my disability. As does my financial situation and the fact that I have an amazing emotional and psychological support system in my friends and family. However, it's not that time heals or anything like that. It's more that I have been involved with medical research in this area for quite awhile and perhaps have more intimate knowledge of the details than many here do. (Not all, but certainly some.)

The possibility of a cure isn't news to me. My family has been involved with the Miami Project practically since its inception and have been funding research from the time of my initial injury. Dr. Barth Green promised me a cure within 5 years. Then he changed that to 10 years. I've met many, many devoted scientists and doctors in the past 2 decades who are wholly focused on this area of research. I was never told that I would always be handicapped and, in fact, I was able to stand and walk for a few years after my initial injury and was seeing consistent recovery right up until it all went to Hel again. I had a bout with syringomeylia that wiped out everything I gained after my accident and more. Dealing with that was almost as traumatic as my initial injury and it exhausted my patience with rehabilitation. It was after that I decided to work more on life as a whole than in focusing on my disability.

who interviews you all the time and why? what are some of the topics?
I race cars at the professional level and being a women with a disability, I tend to attract a bit of attention. My car also has a very high level of technology incorporated into it and I am an ambassador for Ford Mobility Motoring and have been sponsored over the years by companies like Mobility Products and Design, MOMO, Bassani Xhaust, Ricon, Vortech Superchargers and RediAutosport. So in the past few years, I've been interviewed for any number of print and internet articles, by live news media and also for a couple of documentaries. Usually when I am interviewed the focus is on racing and automotive technology and/or on adaptive hand controls and disability awareness in general.

Our race team has looked at ways to further raise awareness and we are also looking into raising money for SCI research. Our latest project will have one of our show vehicles featured in a PSA concerning handicapped parking being done by United Spinal. Ironically, I just found out today that Mark Zupan will also be featured in that PSA. Small, small world, eh? :mega:

C.

[Buck_Nastier]

You know what I meant. Is your response that if one enjoys fame that one must be an advocate for SCI cure research? What about when the cameras are off? Does every person with a disability have to represent for cure research to the people they encounter or do you just not like it when famous people fall short of this?


He said he didn't know anything about it. What was he supposed to do, lie? It sounds like you require everyone with a disability to be actively concerned with a cure. There are a million issues in the world. Everything from the environment, to genocide, to child abuse, to breast cancer. I don't like the idea that just because someone uses a wheelchair that they are required to be informed about and advocate for specific research. Are all black people supposed to speak up about civil rights? Should all women donate money to breast cancer research? Do you see what I'm saying here?


Wait a second. You misunderstand me. I didn't imply anything like that. I'll repeat myself and expand.

When I am interviewed, cure research is not typically a topic I bring up. I am more concerned with, note that I did not say only concerned with, quality of life issues than I am with something that I do not believe will directly impact many lives for at least another decade. Accessibility and public awareness are my immediate concerns in connection to my disability. That is not to say that if I am asked about research in general or stem cells in particular that I refuse to answer. I happen to be fairly well informed in this area and support ESC research, but that's me. I don't condemn anyone else for having other interests or in being educated in different ways.


Oh, dear, like I'm not already unpopular enough around here. This isn't going to help.

I'm never been on the Christopher Reeve bandwagon. I'm sorry the man suffered, I'm sorry he died young and I do appreciate much of what he did while he was alive, but I didn't like all of his methods and and felt that when he was initially injured and only pushing for a cure, he actually had a negative impact on quality of life for people with disabilities.

I was injured almost a decade before Reeve and not only did I feel that I was in many ways fortunate to become handicapped at the point in history that it was, but I also saw great improvements in the following years. The ADA was passed, scientists around the world were discovering that regrowth of the CNS was not the impossibility they had long believed it to be, there was major innovation in technology benefitting people with disabilities and public awareness and acceptance were growing rapidly. I saw a decided downturn in that public awareness after Reeve's accident.

I remember reading a quote from Reeve's first, public speech after he was injured wherein he stated that a cure was needed in order to "restore our pride and dignity". That really pissed me off. I had plenty of pride, regardless of my handicap, and so did the rest of the people that I knew who were in similar situations. Unfortunately, the general public embraced Christopher Reeve wholeheartedly and accepted the notion that he was speaking for all of us. It seemed like overnight AB people went back to feelig sorry for anyone they saw using a wheelchair and they assumed we were all pathetic and dependent and that our lives were barely worth living.

Based on that, I wasn't in the least bit inspired by Reeve. It was a relief a few years later when he finally figured out that a cure wasn't imminent and that making life better while we are still handicapped was a pressing issue. Don't get me wrong, I want a cure as much as the next guy. I'm just not willing to sacrifice my current happiness for the possibility of some neurological improvement in the not so immediate future.

Oh, and just FTR, I blame the APA for using Christopher Reeve and pushing him into the spotlight so soon after his accident. I believe they treated him like a prop in the beginning, before he and his family had time to adjust at all or educate themselves about disability as a whole.

C.

It's a good thing that most people don't think like you, or else nothing
would get done and a cure for this injury would still be considered impossible.

You're making it sound like discussing sci research with people who are
curious about it is the worst thing someone with a disability can do.

Thank you for making me realize how pathetic I must look for advocating
a cure. I think i'll skip the Work to Walk ralley in D.C. next year. They
all must look horribly pathetic, ramming the idea of expanding sci
research down everyone's throat.

[Tiger Racing]

It's a good thing that most people don't think like you, or else nothing would get done and a cure for this injury would still be considered impossible.
People like me and my family have been advocating for the disabled and supporting SCI research since long before you ever knew what a wheelchair was.

You're making it sound like discussing sci research with people who are curious about it is the worst thing someone with a disability can do.
Exactly what have I said that leads you to so wildly misinterpret it that way? How you can twist my saying that I don't bring up cure research in interviews, but advocate for quality of life issues first, into my condemning the discussion completely is totally beyond me. It seems more like you are looking for a specific, negative twist and going from there. Why don't you go back and reread what I wrote and actually address the specifics. Then we can have an honest discussion about it.

Thank you for making me realize how pathetic I must look for advocating a cure. I think i'll skip the Work to Walk ralley in D.C. next year. They all must look horribly pathetic, ramming the idea of expanding sci research down everyone's throat.
Where do you get this stuff?? Did I hit the wrong button with you or something?

I'm happy to discuss this with you further, but first you need to calm down and reread what I've written. You couldn't be further off base. For instance, I said that Reeve stressed the idea that everyone with a disability was without dignity until a cure was found and the general public picked up on that theme and ran with it. It was well before you were injured and even if not everyone agrees with my assessment of it, you certainly weren't around at the time and can't personally comment on it. Why would take all that as ME saying that everyone with a disability is pathetic??

Ya know, since you're already annoyed, I'll go ahead and add a bit more info that will likely piss off a few more people. It needs to be said.

Some people advocating for a cure DO stress this idea that having a disability makes one worthy of pity and that our lives are hopeless and pathetic as long as we use wheelchairs. I realize that there are handicaps and then there are handicaps, but life can suck with or without a disability. Everytime someone meets a person with a disability for the first time, it's a chance to make an impression on them. There is a balance between cure and quality of life that must be struck. If you leave an AB person with the impression that life with a disability is the worst thing that can happen to anyone, there is a good chance that they will treat the next person they meet who has a disability as though their life must suck, too. Well, if I'm that next person, and I get patted on the head, I am not going to be all grateful to you.

C.

[betheny]

We are pathetic as hell. :rotfl:

It's fine with me that people like Zupan and Tiger Racing choose to not advocate for a cure. I think C. Reeve deserves a lot of respect because he did.

I'm sure he knew it made him unpopular with some of the disabled population. He definitely knew it made him unpopular with some of the government officials he came in contact with regularly.

He knew he made people uncomfortable with talk of cure, instead of wider doorways and quad rugby and other quality of life issues. He could have focused on those issues very effectively. He chose not to. He was a maverick ahead of his time, he held researcher's and Congressmen's feet to the fire and he was far from universally beloved. He didn't retire from public life as his health deteriorated and his beauty and youth fled so abruptly it was like they were never there. He kept that deterioration on public display for a reason.

He never quit fighting for a cure. I believe this because I sat next to his wife when he was only 6 months dead, and I listened to her tell us so. She said he would have been so happy to see us in DC that day, for that reason. She said "I KNOW what it took for all of you to get here today." And she did.

I don't think there's any need to blame the APA for using C. Reeve. I just don't get the impression he was that susceptible to being used.

I wish I'd gotten to meet him. His wife was a sweetheart. I hope their kids are thriving.

I also hope someday this whole "cure vs. care" battle is nothing but history. We'll always need both. I'm glad Zupan and Tiger Racing and United Spinal are doing a PSA about handicapped parking. There's plenty of work to go around; it's just good to see people do it instead of yapping about it.

[Tiger Racing]

We are pathetic as hell.
Some days more than others.

It's fine with me that people like Zupan and Tiger Racing choose to not advocate for a cure.
Fer pity's sake! I did not say that! Lordy, lordy, ya'll don't listen.

He knew he made people uncomfortable with talk of cure, instead of wider doorways and quad rugby and other quality of life issues. He could have focused on those issues very effectively. He chose not to. He was a maverick ahead of his time
Oh, puh-lease! Reeve didnt' actually do anything new, anything that hadn't been done for almost a decade before his injury. Well, the only thing "new" was his being a famous person with a severe disability. If it had been Nick Buoniconti who was injured, instead of his son Marc, then even that base would have been covered.

And Reeve DID advocate for quality of life. I mentioned that. It just took him a few years to get to it and asking the government to add curb cuts and ramps doesn't make for front page news the way that talk of cutting up embryos does.

I don't think there's any need to blame the APA for using C. Reeve. I just don't get the impression he was that susceptible to being used.
The APA pushed Reeve into the spotlight practically the day after he became a quad. Well before he had time to assimilate any real information on his own situation, let alone on the community as a whole. I remember what it was like in the first year after my accident. If I'd been a high level quad like him instead of a functional para who was learning to walk again and a major organization like the APA had been all over me talking cure, cure, cure, I can see how I would have grasped onto them like a lifeline.

I also hope someday this whole "cure vs. care" battle is nothing but history. We'll always need both.
Exactly and I hope it's soon. There is no reason for it to be an either/or thing. We can all do what we can to make our lives better now and in the future.

I'm glad Zupan and Tiger Racing and United Spinal are doing a PSA about handicapped parking. There's plenty of work to go around; it's just good to see people do it instead of yapping about it.
Thank you. I hope the shoot goes well. We've just started working with United Spinal and I've never met Zupan. I'm not sure what to expect with the whole thing, but think the PSA is a good idea in general, and is a good way to promote some of my sponsors.

C.

[Buck_Nastier]

People like me and my family have been advocating for the disabled and supporting SCI research since long before you ever knew what a wheelchair was.

I have a good friend who's been a quadriplegic for 30 years. I can
remember him trying to commit suicide with pain pills when I was
8, 14 years ago. I have been very much aware of his situation for
a lot longer than I have been paralyzed.



Where do you get this stuff?? Did I hit the wrong button with you or something?

Yeah you did, you quoted my first post, blew it way out of proportion
and tried to make me out to be a pathetic bitter cripple. I know what
the movie Murderball was about, I just think that there could have
been better answers to the particular questions on Larry King Live.

Here are the actual questions and answers:

KING: Encouraging, isn't it? Mark by the way, you favor stem cell research?

ZUPAN: Do I favor it? I don't know enough about it.

KING: Do you think it could help you.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We don't really worry about it, because we enjoy pretty much our lives.

KING: If someone had a cure you would take it?

ZUPAN: I wouldn't say that. I would not say that.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is the best thing that ever happened to us.

KING: Wait, wait, wait, wait. Someone comes in here with a vial, a pill, a magic bullet and say, you can walk and do anything you want.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) have a gold medal in the other hand. I don't know.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think all of us would listen, but I don't -- none of us would be the first one to line up and go rush in to do with that. There's nothing wrong with us that needs to be cured and, you know, that's...


Now, they sound like they are doing great and i'm happy for that, but
I would have reminded people that sci has very different degrees of
injury and that some people don't have near the function that I do.
That is why a cure is important.

Regular people who have no idea what sci really is will get the impression
that it's not that bad and maybe not worth the effort.

This was a good chance to say something positive about the research
and instead they totally shot down the idea of a cure.

Now answer this question please, how many positive ads for sci
research and stem cell research, do you see on tv? I saw a
60 minutes interview about 3 months ago on the subject and that
was the only thing positive that I have ever seen on tv regarding
a possible cure. It's either the fraudulant data from South Korean
researcher Hwang Woo Suk, or the veto by Bush, or some other
headline reading "the ethical debate".

It's not like it's being beaten to death.

[betheny]

The Buonocontis built a medical center dedicated to curing paralysis. Reeve's foundation went after Congress, wrote legislation and funded researchers in existing labs.

Both worthy, but not the same. So puh-leeze back atcha.

I think that's one of the problems in my line of work, which is pretty much cure advocacy. The Christopher Reeve Foundation is the only sci/paralysis org that has gone after the cure politically. The other org's help out...for instance, Marc Buonoconti joined us to speak at the first rally, the one I mentioned earlier. But CRF is the only one of the cure-oriented sci/paralysis orgs that ever built a formed a DC office, hired lobbyists, wrote legislation, got it introduced and pushed it. ("It" being the CRPA.)

I'm aware of the quality-of-life advocacy work they did. I've always suspected it was Dana's baby. I think the Paralysis Resource Center is essential for sci'd and their families, especially if they get no rehab.

[chick]

oh fer christs sake. Tho not surprised this topic has spiraled into care/cure debate. Who is worthy? No! Who is MORE worthy?! I am! No, I am! *ugh*

Funny thing though, is how every single day, there are thread after thread of people talking about, with many complaints, how there is such unfair disparity in treatment, lack of access to basic services and needs, and disparaging perceptions of people with dis/SCI, among many other things.

"People (able-bodied) and society don't treat me like an equal... they don't treat me as a normal human being. They look at me like....like... I'm different!"

Then, many of these same people are offended when there are efforts made to improve quality of life and change perceptions of people with disabilities - not as some lesser needing pity, but as an Equally valuable citizen and human being worthy of ALL of the same Rights and Privileges granted any other citizen. They are offended at the gall of some others who are "settling" and/or are "content" to live as a crip. How dare they hurt the cure cause by making disability "ok" and "acceptable"? How dare they attempt to integrate disability into society so people with diabilities don't have to struggle every single day to live with a semblance of dignity?

There are silent, unseen disabled/ity advocates and activists who struggle and fight every single day to enforce this concept of EQUALITY and work tirelessly to make sure that ALL people with disabilities, including those with SCI, can live a better life, a less painful life, a more healthy life, a more productive life, a more self-sufficient life.... these unseen "hero's" fight damn friggin hard, without the glamor, celebrity and idolatry bestowed upon a select few. They commit their lives and sacrifice so YOU can live more empowered, so You are better equipped and more ENABLED to fight YOUR cause, whatever it is.

These people have been fighting FOR YOU, for DECADES.

So please...


Anyway, there are some here, such as Seneca/Antiquity, who do strike a balance very well and respectfully. She is someone who has great understanding of issues from both ends of the spectrum and all that's in-between. Her knowledge, experience and sensibility is undoubtedly worthy of respect. BRAVO

[Buck_Nastier]

oh fer christs sake. Tho not surprised this topic has spiraled into care/cure debate. Who is worthy? No! Who is MORE worthy?! I am! No, I am! *ugh*

Funny thing though, is how every single day, there are thread after thread of people talking about, with many complaints, how there is such unfair disparity in treatment, lack of access to basic services and needs, and disparaging perceptions of people with dis/SCI, among many other things.

"People (able-bodied) and society don't treat me like an equal... they don't treat me as a normal human being. They look at me like....like... I'm different!"

Then, many of these same people are offended when there are efforts made to improve quality of life and change perceptions of people with disabilities - not as some lesser needing pity, but as an Equally valuable citizen and human being worthy of ALL of the same Rights and Privileges granted any other citizen. They are offended at the gall of some others who are "settling" and/or are "content" to live as a crip. How dare they hurt the cure cause by making disability "ok" and "acceptable"? How dare they attempt to integrate disability into society so people with diabilities don't have to struggle every single day to live with a semblance of dignity?

There are silent, unseen disabled/ity advocates and activists who struggle and fight every single day to enforce this concept of EQUALITY and work tirelessly to make sure that ALL people with disabilities, including those with SCI, can live a better life, a less painful life, a more healthy life, a more productive life, a more self-sufficient life.... these unseen "hero's" fight damn friggin hard, without the glamor, celebrity and idolatry bestowed upon a select few. They commit their lives and sacrifice so YOU can live more empowered, so You are better equipped and more ENABLED to fight YOUR cause, whatever it is.

These people have been fighting FOR YOU, for DECADES.

So please...


Anyway, there are some here, such as Seneca/Antiquity, who do strike a balance very well and respectfully. She is someone who has great understanding of issues from both ends of the spectrum and all that's in-between. Her knowledge, experience and sensibility is undoubtedly worthy of respect. BRAVO

Word (slang for "I agree" or "really")

[Tiger Racing]

I have been very much aware of his situation for
a lot longer than I have been paralyzed.
I'm sorry to hear about your friend, but my point was that your characterization of me couldn't be further off the mark. My family has been involved in cure research for almost 2 decades. I am not the enemy.

you quoted my first post, blew it way out of proportion and tried to make me out to be a pathetic bitter cripple.
When you first responded to my post, you didn't seem to so completely misunderstand it. I'm sorry that now you see it this way. You're wrong. First, I didn't blow it way out of proportion. I asked you to clarify your position and I stated my own in response to what I believed you were saying and expanded a bit on it. Second, I don't get where you think I said a word implying that you are pathetic, bitter or even crippled. Reread my inital post and respond directly to what I said if you want me to clarify. I don't like being misunderstood.

I know what the movie Murderball was about, I just think that there could have been better answers to the particular questions on Larry King Live.
OK.

Here are the actual questions and answers:

KING: Encouraging, isn't it? Mark by the way, you favor stem cell research?

ZUPAN: Do I favor it? I don't know enough about it.
That sounds like a very, responsible answer to me.

KING: If someone had a cure you would take it?

ZUPAN: I wouldn't say that. I would not say that.
It's extremely difficult for me to believe anyone would turn down the chance for a fully functioning body, but he doesn't flat out say no.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think all of us would listen, but I don't -- none of us would be the first one to line up and go rush in to do with that. There's nothing wrong with us that needs to be cured and, you know, that's...
Is this Zupan talking?

OK, clearly there is something wrong with anyone with a SCI, but do you not hear what he's getting at? He's addressing the idea that some AB people have that we MUST have a cure in order for life to be worth living. It's like asking a gay person if they would like to instantly be straight because clearly life would be easier for them.

Now, they sound like they are doing great and i'm happy for that, but I would have reminded people that sci has very different degrees of injury and that some people don't have near the function that I do.
This is an excellent point and it's one that I try to always remember to address when I talk about disability. For instance, hand controls for a manual transmission have been a big deal to me since the beginning. Finding them and making them available for street use and for racing is something I've worked on for some time. I'm now working with RediAutosport to market the Guidosimplex controls for street use. Also, I work with Ford Mobility. We put together a Mustang show car for them a year or two ago. We were the first ones to have a Mustang with hand controls at the car shows and it got a lot of attention. I was excited to get the idea out there that there are lots of vehicles that can work for people with disabilities. BUT! I constantly brought up the fact that I realize that a Mustang won't work for everyone. I represent only a segment of the disabled community and I only speak directly for myself. I don't want any interviewer to get the idea that we are all the same.

Regular people who have no idea what sci really is will get the impression that it's not that bad and maybe not worth the effort.
One would have to be an idiot to come to the conclusion that disability is no big deal. I don't think you really need to worry about that.

This was a good chance to say something positive about the research and instead they totally shot down the idea of a cure.
He doesn't know anything about stem cell research! Like I asked before, do you want him to lie about that?

Now answer this question please, how many positive ads for sci research and stem cell research, do you see on tv?
I live in California. It's an election year. I see them all the time. However, I know what you're getting at.

I saw a 60 minutes interview about 3 months ago on the subject and that was the only thing positive that I have ever seen on tv regarding a possible cure.
I hear your frustration with this not being enough of an issue for most people and it not being talked about enough, but you also have to remember that there are thousands of diseases out there competing for people's compassion, time, money and other resources. Honestly, SCI affects a tiny percentage of the population, especially when compared to things like heart disease. Yes, stem cell research will likely help millions of people with other diseases and disorders, but it won't solve every problem.

C.

[Buck_Nastier]

Second, I don't get where you think I said a word implying that you are pathetic, bitter or even crippled. Reread my inital post and respond directly to what I said if you want me to clarify. I don't like being misunderstood.

Ok Tiger, here is your origional post.


So every person with a disability who gets a camera shoved in their face should be required to ask strangers for money to support a cure? We're all poster children?

I don't like that idea. I get interviewed all the time and I can honestly say that a cure is not one of the topics that I typically bring up. I am more concerned with living my life now, than I am with worrying about being cured in 5 or 10 or 20 yrs. I want to be treated with respect and have the same options and opportunities as most people. On a daily basis, I don't want to be seen as pathetic OR as inspirational. Both make us "other" and that's not a feeling I enjoy.

Were these remarks fair? This was your direct response to my first post.
I did not say that we should be asking strangers for money and did not
say we are all poster children. This is so far out in left field from what
I was saying.



It's extremely difficult for me to believe anyone would turn down the chance for a fully functioning body, but he doesn't flat out say no.


You're right, he doesn't.

Is this Zupan talking?

No it's not, i'm more uneasy over what whoever "unidentified male",
said.


OK, clearly there is something wrong with anyone with a SCI, but do you not hear what he's getting at? He's addressing the idea that some AB people have that we MUST have a cure in order for life to be worth living. It's like asking a gay person if they would like to instantly be straight because clearly life would be easier for them.

apples and oranges Tiger, bad analogy. But I will agree that most
AB people really look at us as being very unfortunate and week.
I spend hours and hours a week in the gym to prove that is not
the case.


This is an excellent point and it's one that I try to always remember to address when I talk about disability. For instance, hand controls for a manual transmission have been a big deal to me since the beginning. Finding them and making them available for street use and for racing is something I've worked on for some time. I'm now working with RediAutosport to market the Guidosimplex controls for street use. Also, I work with Ford Mobility. We put together a Mustang show car for them a year or two ago. We were the first ones to have a Mustang with hand controls at the car shows and it got a lot of attention. I was excited to get the idea out there that there are lots of vehicles that can work for people with disabilities. BUT! I constantly brought up the fact that I realize that a Mustang won't work for everyone. I represent only a segment of the disabled community and I only speak directly for myself. I don't want any interviewer to get the idea that we are all the same.


Thank you, one wouldn't know how involved you are by your initial
posts.


One would have to be an idiot to come to the conclusion that disability is no big deal. I don't think you really need to worry about that.

Statistics, 59% of Americans are "for" stem cell research. that leaves
41% who would rather not see a cure happen than further the
research. To put that in perspective, my own rehab Dr., who sees
more injuries and suffering than a regular person, doesn't think a
cure is possible and very much opposes stem cell research.


He doesn't know anything about stem cell research! Like I asked before, do you want him to lie about that?

No.


I live in California. It's an election year. I see them all the time. However, I know what you're getting at.

Of course you do, you live in the most actively involved state. And
to be fair, it is election time.


I hear your frustration with this not being enough of an issue for most people and it not being talked about enough, but you also have to remember that there are thousands of diseases out there competing for people's compassion, time, money and other resources. Honestly, SCI affects a tiny percentage of the population, especially when compared to things like heart disease. Yes, stem cell research will likely help millions of people with other diseases and disorders, but it won't solve every problem.

C.

Alzhiemer's, ALS, Parkinson's, Diabetes, Heart Disease, SCI, ect.

All of these can be cured with embryonic stem cells, i'd say that is
enough reason for it to be the main issue, even though it isn't.

[betheny]

Yep, chick. Like Tiger Racing and I just said, the care/cure battle is ridiculous. We need both, and always will.

I have total respect and appreciation for everybody that has ever fought for improved quality of life for the disabled, or for integrating us into society.

It's gravy when those that do the fighting happen to be celebrities though. They reach a wider audience, that's just a fact of life.

My mom was paralyzed in '83. I pushed her wheelchair many a mile looking for accessible entry-long before my ass got plopped in one.

I was glad that Tiger Racing said Zupan is working with her on a PSA for handicapped parking. He's got the fame, I'm glad to see him put it to use. Apparently TR uses her position to advocate as she sees fit, and I'm grateful for that also.

It's funny...just today I took myself to the local hospital for a mammo and was thinking how nice the parking, curb cut to the sidewalk and push-button access door are, compared to when I used to take Mom for hers.

[Shaun]

Ferking Penguins!

[Max]

'Murderball' star discuss film, life as quadriplegic rugby player
by Ryan McLaughlin (rmmclaug@indiana.edu)
Indiana Daily Student

Published Monday, November 13, 2006
Even though he is bound to his wheelchair, Keith Cavill, one of the stars of the award-winning documentary "Murderball," maintains he is not restricted to it.

Speaking to an audience of more than 50 people in the Whittenberger Auditorium Friday, Cavill shared his story about being a quadriplegic rugby player.

The event, hosted by the Union Board, featured a question-and-answer session with Cavill following a screening of the film.

Cavill, a 25-year-old New Jersey native, suffered a broken neck after a motocross accident in 2003. His rehabilitation process and adjustment to life in a wheel chair is documented throughout the film.

After the screening, Cavill spoke candidly about his life as a quadriplegic and his experiences with quad rugby. He also talked in depth about how he became involved in the filming of "Murderball."

"I think things happen for a reason," Cavill said. "They (directors Henry-Alex Rubin and Dana Adam Shapiro) wanted to show someone who was going through the rehabilitation process, and I guess I had a decent enough attitude, but I wasn't sugar-coating anything."

Cavill said every quadriplegic and paraplegic goes through a step-by-step process of learning how to cope with the outside world. He said that after he left rehabilitation, he was shocked at how much he had to adjust to his new way of life.

http://www.idsnews.com/news/story.php?id=39222&adid=campus

[Tiger Racing]

Even though he is bound to his wheelchair, Keith Cavill, one of the stars of the award-winning documentary "Murderball," maintains he is not restricted to it.
Wow. Who's tying the poor guy to his wheelchair? (I just hate that phrase, bound to a wheelchair.)

C.

[darkeyed_daisy]

At risk of being [attacked].....

I like to think of the disabled community as [analogy only] the spokes of a wheel. I dont know how many spokes it takes to turn a wheel and I am talking an old timey wagon wheel here......

All the spokes come together at the center to make the wheel function. Much like what all this arguement is about. Lets pretend cure research, advocacy, quality of life, money, scientists, and whatever else [even a few horn tooters] helps our community are all spokes on the wheel.

Whether they be care related or cure related, the wheel cant turn without one of them functioning......well maybe it can...it would just be lopsided and a HELL of a bumpy ride!!!

Why argue care vs cure because in the end it is quality of life we are all searching for whether one feels that quality is in a cure or is in a better world with no barriers.

I am a bit confused and amused at one posters abilities to pick apart a thread and turn words around to where the whole thread becomes opposite of what the original poster intended.... What is the point in all this???? Thought provoking discussion? No just time wasted trying to seperate out what is really being said!!!!

I am thankful that their are those out there that advocate for a cure and also those that advocate for barrier free equality....I do not care for those who "toot their own horn" so to speak as they dont represent our community as a whole.

Definition- horn tooters=those who use their disability to draw attention to themselves to get preferential treatment whether it be positive or negative.