MAC or PC? [Archive] - CareCure Forums

LaoziSailor

11-11-2005, 11:22 AM

Davey

11-11-2005, 11:36 AM

Scorpion

11-11-2005, 11:40 AM

MAC as a more reliable, well-integrated, less virus-vulnerable system. Any thoughts?

All that and more! You're going to have to pay more for a Mac, though, unfortunately. Whether the extra cost is worth it, only you can answer. If you can try out your friend's Mac, that might help you decide, along with some research. I know the Mac operating system has vice recognition built-in, but I've never used it. Check here for more info: http://www.apple.com/macosx/

bob clark

11-11-2005, 03:00 PM

Hi Singin_intherain,

Awhile ago I was looking on the Internet for an objective comparison between PCs and Macs and I found this website called Mac vs PC Shootout (http://www.systemshootouts.org/). It ain't easy finding objective comparisons because it seems that everyone is entrenched in their own computer camp. I think this website is fairly objective.... I spent a couple hours there and from the best I can discern the guy who runs the site seems to be an honest fellow and his material reliable. He did however name his website "Mac vs PC" instead of "PC vs Mac" but maybe he flipped a coin and PC lost.

Here's his mission statement:

"What are the Mac vs. PC System Shootouts?"

Several years ago, when Apple first introduced the $799 entry-level iMac G3, I was curious about just how well it stacked up against the competition, in terms of both hardware, software and other total "user experience" areas such as mobility, bulk, and so on. Eventually, I expanded this into other price points from low to high, as well as laptops. More recently, the Shootouts were expanded to also include some specialized, non-price-based comparisons, and finally evolved into the website you're looking at right now.

Just remember that approximately 90% of all computers are PCs and most run Windows. When you go to Mac you're joining a minority and with that some compatibility problems. Probably none that can't be overcome with a little effort but.....

My first computer was a Mac and it was hard to find games and sims that were compatible with it. Maybe things have changed for the better since then. Trying to find online gaming groups was near impossible.

cjo

11-11-2005, 03:36 PM

I know a lot of peeople that are very adamant in touting their preference as far as PC or Mac. I can honestly say I've never used a Mac, but I know they're far superior to PCs as far as multimedia apps go. I went to a business college where we mostly used Microsoft products (some Unix).

Use what you think will work for you. Unless you're highly specialized, you'll be able to use either to do what you want I'm guessing.

11-11-2005, 04:02 PM

I’m especially interested in using voice recognition, and in accessing my computer through other monitors and keyboards in different rooms.[/FONT][/COLOR]
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I recommended PC when it comes to voice recognition. However, if you can hold off until Apple releases the Mac's with the Intel chip, then you'll probably be able to run both operating systems. Release date is set for the middle of 2006 (http://www.appleinsider.com/article.php?id=1368).

dgrotz

11-11-2005, 05:50 PM

I just switched to an Apple last year, I was a little torn between the discussion but now I'm very happy that I choose a PowerBook. For voice recognition I use iListen.

Jadis

11-11-2005, 06:33 PM

i have a 4-mac/3-windows/1-linux comp network in my house.

i have a choice which one I want to use since I have both and I always use my mac.

I hate windows with a passion bc I find myself doing more maintenance on them and other people's windows POS that I would rather just use one that works that I don't have to fight with.

Mac it is. All my macs are now running some version of OSX (panther, jaguar, and tiger) and it's much more user friendly if you are not a mac person from day one. Going to OS9 and prior from windows was more of a transition than it is now--thanks to OSX

mingo

11-11-2005, 07:24 PM

Not much of a friend, imho ;)

Touche! My friend kept touting the Mac. He finally broke down and bought a beauty of a powerbook or something I dont know... G4. After 6 months he plugged a LCD monitor into it under battery power and totaled his display. Its now a desktop. Big price on Apple service.

I crashed every Mac I touched in grad school. One professor let me use his in his office and left me with it. When it crashed it went nuts BONG BONG BONG! I knew the number of the department secretary and called her. She said, "Oh, so that's where that noise is coming from." She came and hit the on/off switch on the back and guided me out of the maze of stacked books. It was a pig trail.

I like Macs, but they have always been different creatures. I finally bought a new machine a year ago and gave it the name: ITJUSTWORKS

It has worked flawlessly. Its a Media Center PC and I can only guess the parts were well matched. I'll probably get a Mac laptop though, would like the Mac desktop for video but am doing fine.

ITJUSTWORKS ... my friend liked that.

alan

11-11-2005, 09:08 PM

Could look at eComStation at www.ecomstation.com.

SCI-Nurse

11-11-2005, 09:20 PM

I use a Windows based PC at work, and have an iMac at home running Tiger (OS 10.4).

I love Apple computers! This is my 4th Mac since 1988 (a Mac SE with a HUGE 20 MB hard drive was my first!). Macs are so intuitive...you just sit down and start using it. Never had to take any classes, don't need manuals and lots of books. Never have had a virus in spite of being on-line since 1994. On top of that...it looks way more cool than a Windows machine. My parents just bought their 2nd Mac, and for their needs (iPhoto, iTunes, Safari internet browser, e-mail) this is fine for them, and they got it for about $650.

In addition, I love how easy it is to use iTunes and download it to my iPod Nano using my Mac.

At work, I have no end of problems with my computer...I have to call tech support at least once a week (again today!). File management is much more difficult I think. I HATE Microsoft Word (which is the only word processing program we are allowed at work), and have no desire or interest in having the Microsoft suite for the Mac installed in my computer.

Given all that, unless you need voice recognition (since Dragon still does not have a Mac version), I would definately lean toward a Mac.

(KLD)

dgrotz

11-12-2005, 04:19 PM

Given all that, unless you need voice recognition (since Dragon still does not have a Mac version), I would definately lean toward a Mac.

iListen is a good alternative to Dragon, http://www.macspeech.com/ don't think I will switch even when/if Dragon comes to the Mac. :thumb:

SCI-Nurse

11-12-2005, 11:29 PM

Good to know. How much is it? How difficult it is to learn?

My mother (tetraplegia due to MS) tried to learn to use the Mac version of Via Voice a couple of years ago. She found typing with a typing stick and using a track ball actually faster, and had a problem with her MS fatigue changing her voice slightly, so after training the computer by the afternoon it no longer recognized her voice. She stopped using it completely and they did not get an upgrade when they went to OS X.

(KLD)

CapnGimp

11-13-2005, 03:29 AM

I’ve always used a PC but my friend is urging me toward MAC as a more reliable, well-integrated, less virus-vulnerable system. Any thoughts?

I’m especially interested in using voice recognition, and in accessing my computer through other monitors and keyboards in different rooms.

If you want remote access of computers AND it works cross-platform...
http://www.realvnc.com/

I use it, works great, they have free versions here to download, however I do not use the free version. Just got through operating my computer contolled telescope setting outside in the cold, whiLst I was sitting inside in the warmth.
Laptop contols the telescope, it's connected by cat5 to a hub in garage, connected to my hub- desktop, in my room. We have 2 XP for nephew/buddies gaming, bro-in-law laptop, b/u work server on XP, my 2 SUSE/XP laptops, SUSE/XP server. I can control any computer in the house by having them run the VNC server and I run the Viewer. That way I don't have to go up to work on them in most cases.
You get a picture of the remote desktop on your pc, use your mouse/kb to run it as though you are sitting there.
With linux, you have no such thing as a virus. You can download the OS and software bundle, burn to cds or dvd, load it, absolutely free.

I started out on a TRS-80 with the old cassette 'hard drives', few years later Apple 2c. skipped a few years then, 286, 486, started building my own then, now I'm an AMD man. Worked with some OS7 Macs a few yrs ago.

metronycguy

11-15-2005, 12:47 AM

if you think you may be going to use it for video editing or music production , go mac.

Broknwing

11-15-2005, 04:20 AM

Go MAC. I've wanted a Mac for half my life and I FINALLY got to get one this past Feb/March. As much as I'm still taking my time learning some things on it, I am SOOOOO glad that I finally got to do the switch to Mac from PC. I couldn't be happier that I did. I highly recommend going with the Mac. It'll be a lil bit of a learning curve but once 'ya figure out all the tricks, shortcuts, etc, you'll be SOOOOOO glad that you did.

CapnGimp

11-15-2005, 03:18 PM

Imo, what is distressing to most people using computers, can be solved easiest, not by paying a larger sum of money buying a Mac, but rather ditching the Microsoft Operating Systems they use. These cause the most "failures" that people run across daily in the use of the computer.
That said, I DO NOT want this to be taken as a blanket statement, as some are prone to do, getting their tailfeathers rustled. What I suggest is getting a version of the Linux Operating System, there are a large variety also, and trying it out.
You will have to learn anew a few things if you switch to either a Macintosh OR switch to a linux OS. HOWEVER you only have to download and burn a dvd or a few cd's to have a FREE, COMPLETE operating system AND very large array of software when switching to linux(STILL USING your present computer). If you switch to MAC, you gotta pay MORE for another computer altogether. Think about it, seriously.
As in both the miKr0soVt. Mac and Linux worlds, all the documentation and help are built in and are found on the web. You can even DOWNLOAD a FREE, live linux DVD to try out before you switch. This affects your present system N NO WAY, allowing you to use linux. If windows is causing you problems... use linux live and worry about fixing it tomorrow,lol.
All you have to do is put it in your dvd player and boot to DVD and you can see what it's like.It will be a bit slower this way but give it a shot. Lemme find alink for you....
http://tinyurl.com/9ggwg

This is a LIVE DVD download from Georgia Tech mirror. It is an ISO file, a bit over a gigabyte in size. With a fast connection, you can download it in about an hour. Then burn it to a DVD and set your computer to boot from it.
This is the 10.0 SUSE version of linux from NOVELL.
If you happen to want to try switching for free, EMAIL me and I will help you you have any more questions about getting the dvds or cds. Or ask here, either way, I or someone else using linux will send you links for info that you can peruse@your behest....hmmmm, sounded funny.You can also BUY them for around 10 bucks from MANY sites, these are without book form documentation or support. If you want this, you can buy the same at many online locations and have free support through SuSE Novell. Anyway, there ya go, get on it.
HILLBILLY UP!
:)

MultiMacGreg

11-15-2005, 03:40 PM

I've used a Mac since 1984 and Apple has always led the way the computer industry eventually headed. I used to program in FORTRAN and COBOL and just wanted a GUI (Graphical User Interface). Go Mac unless you are a nutty gamer and willing to risk repetitive motion injuries of the wrist, elbow and shoulder.

The new Intel based Macs are rumored to be introduced at Mac World in January so wait til then then go for it.

http://www.appleinsider.com/article.php?id=1368

-Greg Jacobs

CapnGimp

11-15-2005, 03:41 PM

http://tinyurl.com/7o8wz
This is a link for a CD sized live cd distribution of linux called KNOPPIX v 3.9
I have used it before also, you CAN make a hard drive install with it also but, I never have. Just posting the live versions so you can try linux w/o changing your current setup.
Remember it is an ISO so burn it as such and boot it. Enjoy.

singin_intherain

11-15-2005, 06:57 PM

How great to have a tech support team at my fingertips. I'm not going to be buying tomorrow, as much as my Win95 machine kees threaqtening to make that my deadline, but I hope to clear away a couple things and get on this pronto. Not even being able to run Turbotax this year cost me more energy than I wanted to spare. And it usually freezes on the frst two boots.

CapnGimp, Linux is one of those mysteries to me, so please forgive my rudimentary questions. Does it have its own set of programs to run on it, or can it run Windows versions of programs? Would i be able to read/convert my last 10-20 years of Word or WP files, excel spreadsheets? And how hard would it be to set up those wonderful networking things you describe. My life isn't nearly so complicated as the networks you describe.

My ideal would be to have wireless keyboards and screens in dfferent rooms talking to the same central computer, not even have peripheral machines. Nobody has given me any hope that that's possible on any system.

I just do basics right now--Word, Excel, quicken, oulook, exlorer--and want to have the power/memory to run all that w/out crashing, but I' like to start in the right place for being able to add more multimedia stuff, and voice recog.

11-15-2005, 11:00 PM

Does it have its own set of programs to run on it, or can it run Windows versions of programs?

I think Open Office will meet some of your needs when it comes to using Linux. I don't believe you will be able to use voice rec with this operating system. By the way, Open Office (http://www.openoffice.org/) looks and works pretty much the same as Microsoft office but it is free. I'll let the Captain reply to the rest of your questions.

LaoziSailor

11-15-2005, 11:25 PM

..., and voice recog.
XVoice (http://xvoice.sourceforge.net/) provides voice control of X applications using IBM's ViaVoice for Linux (free download at their web site). Both user-defined commands and dictation are supported. It can be used to write letters, write code, control netscape, etc.

Cap'n, I'm just a laozisailor :D, you take it from here.

CapnGimp

11-15-2005, 11:45 PM

Yes it has it's own programs, which come free when you get the cds/dvd. There are a plethora of programs out there. To help you understaND... THIS IS ALL WRITTEN BY USERS FROM ALL OVER THE WORLD, FOR FREE, to be distributed freely. NO money involved.
As Paul said, Open Office is the equivalent of MS's word processing programs. Yes all the old ones should be able to be read/converted. As a matter of fact, you can download it for free and use it on MS machines as well.
In most distributions(different versions) there are equivalent programs with the install media. As I said before, any program you run on a MS machine has an/many equivalent(s) in linux.
The modern versions are pretty much plug n play like windows is, that is if you have it hooked up when you do the install, linux finds, identifies, and sets up any hardware. So networking is simple and VNC is built in to most distrobutions that I have used.
There are some limitations... if you are buying bleeding edge hardware, you might want to check to see if your version of linux supports it or if you have to download drivers for it. Which is really no problem.
As far as multiple monitors/user interface setups with only one computer, it's really best to get a few cheaper computers and network them. Then you have the same amount of money with much more capabilities.
You can get new computers for 3-400 dollars now and remember your operating system and all software is FREE>unlike with microsoft systems.
There is a lot to be said for having a laptop for true portability. I used to load up a desktop and monitor onto a dolly and roll it outside everytime I wanted to use my telescope for astrophotography, really a pain in cold weather. I called it my HillBilly Laptop. ;)
Linux operating systems can read any Microsoft os that is using any file system OTHER than ntfs. You are using win95 so you are fine. Anything you wanted to use could be moved over or even just put the hard drive in the other computer as an extra and read directly off of it. Easier to write the files to a cd though.
I would recommend getting a newer computer, as to efficiently use newer software/operating systems you need the upgrade.
When you go up to modern multimedia, you NEED the power a newer system affords. For example, I put a dvd burner in an older P-II system and it wouldn't even PLAY a dvd,lol. I knew better, was in a hurry, generally have a few here working on them at any given time.
With the win-95 system, you are pretty limited what you can do. If I remember correctly, most video cards in that agegroup, didn't have even dual monitor capability, it required external hardware to power multiple monitors.
At my bro in laws dental office we have two monitors per computer for some of the operatories so the patient can view pertinent info in their seat while the other is for the tech working on them. I used a dual monitor card at one time, until a software/hardware upgrade caused conflicts, then I just switched to a single monitor video card and a splitter off of it, but you can only see the SAME info on those two monitors. Also, there are length restrictions on the cable w/o adding an amplifier between monitor and computer. I think about 12 feet is where it is now.
To make it simple, it is easier with a computer per monitor, if there is much distance between screens, such as you are envisioning.Someone is bound to come and say it IS POSSIBLE but I am assuming you want to be COST EFFICIENT.
Any way, I think I answered your question....I hope,lol. If not, try me again. I have my laptop hooked up in my bed for extreme comfort, wireless keyboards and mice are all I use. My tv at the foot of my bed is my monitor. NO visibilty problems there,lol. I roll around the room and can operate and see it from anywhere unless I'm in front of it.
I get all my parts from www.neobox.ws in Houston, been using them since I lived there years ago, before the present owners bought the previous out. They sell systems and parts. Most systems they sell now are 64 bit AMD, waste of time loading WINDeRZ on them, they don't have a 64 bit operating system YET,lol. You are not using all the hoSSpower that way. Another great benefit in the linux world.

CapnGimp

11-16-2005, 12:13 AM

I just do basics right now--Word, Excel, quicken, oulook, exlorer--and want to have the power/memory to run all that w/out crashing, but I' like to start in the right place for being able to add more multimedia stuff, and voice recog.

As an afterthought, you could probably pick up a used computer that is at least an AMD 1700 or above(I prefer AMD) or a Pentium 4 on up and have plenty of power to use voice applications made today. I would stay at or above 1 GHZ processors generally speaking. 512 meg of ram minimum. This would hold you for the near future. We still have AMD 850 Mhz and a couple of P3 800 Mhz computers running in the office. I just recommend if you are spending g00d m0ney, go ahead and get newer hardware. Now if you are getting the lower end things listed above, don't spend more than 100 bucks on them, a bit more and you could have newer equipment.
Another thing to keep in mind with older stuff.... hard drives, as the size and speed increased, so did the amount of heat generated, thus decreasing lifetime(warranty). Where you used to get a 3 year, now you get one or pay extra. Keep this in mind if buying used. Components such as these are readily replaced by yourself however.
You get the idea. Anyway, let us know if ya got any more questions. <big grin> Somewhere, I tried to warn folks that I was longwinded, and I detest typing,lol.

btw La0zI, I'm gonna look into Xvoice, didn't know about it. I'm trying to come up with a reliable way to get "closed captioning" on the screen behind speakers at church with a puter, so folks with hearing problems can read what is said real time. Don't know if anyone is doing it, but I gotta get on it someday. Hopefully on the cheap, you guys got any ideas?

lurch

11-17-2005, 05:31 AM

Do macs require their own peripherals or would the scanner/printer from my pc be compatible with a mac?

SCI-Nurse

11-17-2005, 10:42 AM

If your scanner and printer are fairly recent, they should be compatable if they have USB 2.0 capability.

(KLD)

Scott Pruett

11-17-2005, 10:50 AM

Depends on the manufacturer, but most are cross-platform compatible. KLD, USB 2.0 isn't a big deal unless the peripheral is 2.0 only. Any 1.1 device will work on a 2.0 port.

Wise Young

11-17-2005, 02:30 PM

Do macs require their own peripherals or would the scanner/printer from my pc be compatible with a mac?

Lurch, I have not yet met a peripheral USB device that did not work for the Mac. This includes every kind of printers, digital cameras, hard drives, and digital RAM devices. In my experience, the powerbook can interface with more devices than any other laptop computer that I have seen. It has USB 2.0 and Firewire, S-video and digital video, microphone in and a built-in microphone, earphon out, an automatic 1 GHz ethernet that adapts to 100 MHz and even different wiring. About the only thing that it cannot do is external SCSI which Apple dropped from its powerbooks about 5 years ago.

Wise.

tegdirb

11-20-2005, 07:27 PM

I recently switched to a MAC and love it. I don't even want to look at a PC anymore :p

11-20-2005, 08:35 PM

Wesley

11-21-2005, 02:57 PM

btw La0zI, I'm gonna look into Xvoice, didn't know about it. I'm trying to come up with a reliable way to get "closed captioning" on the screen behind speakers at church with a puter, so folks with hearing problems can read what is said real time. Don't know if anyone is doing it, but I gotta get on it someday. Hopefully on the cheap, you guys got any ideas?

I have nothing constructive to add except...
If you hooked up Dragon directly to the preacher's mic, you'd get some great misinterpretations. Holy Rollers would take on a new meaning. The congregation would be rolling in the aisles w/ laughter.

CapnGimp

11-22-2005, 01:28 AM

lol, that's why I was askin'
I assume it could be trained eventually. Never used it btw.
Do you type in the new words or how does it work?

Wesley

11-22-2005, 05:22 PM

lol, that's why I was askin'
I assume it could be trained eventually. Never used it btw.
Do you type in the new words or how does it work?

Dragon Naturally Speaking initially trains each user by having them read passages. That gives amazingly accurate results. There are other tools to fine tune accuracy and the program "learns" as you correct it. From my experience, there would be some big barriers to using it the way you want to. First, microphone placement is everything. Best position is just to the side of the mouth, about an inch from the cheek. Second, the person speaking has to learn how to dictate for maximum accuracy. Its not too hard, but it takes work. It won't do well with conversational speaking. You have to speak clearly,using consistent volume and pacing. Background noises can really throw things off.

The reason I said it could be funny is that Dragon generally will always come up with some interpretation of your speech. It tries to create sentences that make sense by using context. The results can be hilarious.

My much less than expert guess is that voice recognition isn't ready your application.

Maybe you could use a prepared sermon to stream text.

Zeus

11-23-2005, 09:39 AM

I just switched to an Apple last year, I was a little torn between the discussion but now I'm very happy that I choose a PowerBook. For voice recognition I use iListen.
Dave,

I'm also a C5/C6 complete mac-owner (iMac G5 for me). I bought iListen a couple of months ago, but I haven't played around with it enough yet (still got to finish all of the training stories). I currently find typing with my knuckle faster/more accurate.

How do you find iListen's accuracy? Do you use a desktop mic, or a headset? I've got a USB mic, because I don't want to constantly annoy somebody to put on a headset for me. I just hope I didn't waste my money on iListen!

Chris.

Zeus

11-23-2005, 10:01 AM

Signin,

I'm gonna join the chorus and recommend a Mac. Macs have integrated software and hardware, which generally makes them a better product for most users. OS X is rock solid and based on Unix, so there's also a bunch of free programs to download from the net. Macs are a little pricier, but not when compared to a similarly equipped brand-name PC.

Linux is an alternative, but it's not for newbies. Also, you do sacrifice alot with Linux. If you want to buy add-ons like an iPod later on, Windows or Mac OS X will be much easier to use. Multimedia is not Linux's strong point, but it's getting there.

If you do buy a Mac, I would wait a couple of months. It looks like Apple may be ahead of schedule with the Intel Macs.

http://arstechnica.com/journals/apple.ars/2005/11/12/1805

Even more exciting, Apple recently filed a patent indicating you will be able to choose Windows, Linux or OS X as your default OS on an Intel Mac, and dual-boot OSes will be standard. If I can't get iListen to work for me, hello Dragon!

Good luck with your decision!

Chris.

Jadis

11-23-2005, 12:14 PM

USB mic is actually the way to go. It doesn't depend on the quality of a soundcard and actually has less interference than the soundcard. That means your accuracy when training and speaking will be higher.

Scorpion

11-23-2005, 12:31 PM

Even more exciting, Apple recently filed a patent indicating you will be able to choose Windows, Linux or OS X as your default OS on an Intel Mac, and dual-boot OSes will be standard.
The geek in me thinks this is awesome! I love my Macs, and I think they're better in many ways, but my first computer was with Windows [386DX, 40MB hard drive, 4MB RAM - I could just barely run "Doom" :D], and I'd like to build my own Frankenstein computer that could boot up with either Mac or Windows. I'd still want a store-bought Mac under warranty though LOL.

CapnGimp

11-23-2005, 07:13 PM

Scorpion

11-23-2005, 07:28 PM

Mac with wind0Z?????
ROFLMbO!!!
WHy in the world would ANY sane person do this???
That's akin to buying a Rolls and putting in a Ford 4 banger!
Do you folks not UNDERSTAND? It is the windows operating systems that cause the worthless headaches with computers to BEGIN WITH??!!!!!!
Ahhhh, pe0ple, I'll never uNNerstAnd.
Oh, I understand. :) But it would be nice to be able to switch to Windows sometimes for converting files and fonts and checking compatibility of certain files with windows (I'm a graphic designer). Plus, I'd like to be able to have access to certain games that take forever to be ported for the Mac...even though I rarely play computer games anymore.

Besides, if I build a Frankenstein computer, I want it to be all crazy, and I'd like to try out the Linux OS for kicks too. So, to answer your question of "Why?" I say "Why not?" But then, my sanity has been questioned.

BTW, I used a PC at home from '93 to '03 with hardly any problems, no viruses that caused any damage, no software issues that I couldn't resolve myself, etc. I found Windows XP Pro to be pretty stable, and using AV software and a firewall, had no spyware problems, etc. But then, I admit, I am a bit of a geek, not nearly as versed in PCs as you are perhaps, but not a casual user.

CapnGimp

11-23-2005, 07:58 PM

Okie, I saavy Sc0rp.
But rather than put my Mac on cRacK, I'd have a dedicated Winderz box, that way you can check real time w/o having to reb00t. There is no end to the usefulness of 2 p00ters. Esp for your case.
I see the FUN aspect of it. Just that I have a bad taste in my mouth from Bill's WAAAY overpriced junk OSes and software.
Just one of my quirks.
Other than GAMING which I do little of now, big time hog, and working on others computers, I wouldn't have windows.
As a matter of fact, unless some one buys me a copy this go around, I won't be fixing anymore windows machines.If ya really, objectively sit and think about this whole windows/virii/spyware/hack/ etc thAANg...... If I made tens of billions selling dope, they'd bury me, everyone says it's bad.I did enough time as it was, I feel the same way for MS. You know where I'm coming from, I'm sure.

Scorpion

11-23-2005, 08:38 PM

I hear ya, dude. You make some good points. The main reason I'd have Mac & Windows on one machine is cost, since I'd probably be building the machine on a bit of a budget, I wouldn't want to use moneu to buy even a cheap Windows machine that would basically just take up space. I already have two Macs (desktop & laptop) so I'd use the frankenputer for experimentation, not only w/software but with the case (might do something funky with it, and not the ol' window in the side w/neon lol) and I could use the monitor as a secod monitor for my main Mac. I dunno, just in the thinking/idea stages at this point. I would like to pick your brain about Linux sometime.

john smith

11-28-2005, 12:17 PM

OK guys;

Indulge my innocence. What will waiting for an iMac with a pentium processor mean? What will it do for the system and me?

Thanks,

John

11-28-2005, 09:56 PM

John: If you're someone who knows that they need to do the Microsoft Critical Updates when they come out about twice a month, along with running several anti-spyware programs, anti-virus, and firewall, then you may not want to spend the money and purchase a Mac with an Intel chip. The advantage of owning a Mac with an Intel chip is that you will be able to run both the Mac operating system and Windows (Think Secret) (http://www.thinksecret.com/news/0506intelmac.html).

If you purchase a Mac then you will not have to deal with the spyware and virus issues that I mentioned above. The bottom line: that is the appeal to owning a Mac instead of a PC. However, CapnGimp makes some compelling reasons to try the Linux LiveCD (http://www.frozentech.com/content/livecd.php).

Scorpion

11-29-2005, 10:15 AM

LaoziSailor

11-29-2005, 10:31 AM

Hey Scorpio,
Paul, is it true that the Motorola PowerPC chips Apple currently uses are faster than Intel chips, despite lower clock speeds? And do you know if Apple is switching to Intel chips completely or will they still offer machines with Motorola chips.

Hmm, I imagine AMD chips will work with the new Intel based Macs. I think I'd prefer AMD processor if the Motorola isn't going to be available...
I'm not a hundred percent on this and would suspect that Motorola would not have a reason to change. Those chips had floating point math as part of the chipset and that allowed it to run circles around it despite the clock speed. Keep in mind that Macs have traditionally served a graphics intensive market which needs floating point.

The Intel chip may have one that is accessible through their Math library (sold separately to s/w developers).
The AMD chip (and I'm thinking Opteron) also has a Math library and is different than Intel's. I know this because I've just finished a CCTV install for a customer where I wanted to place a 64bit dual processor with 2 Opteron's and in discussions with the s/w developer found out they only supported the Intel (Xeon is more expensive than Opteron).

When I told them the AMD Math library would also give them access to the Fast Fourier Transforms routines they indicated that they had choosen to place the development resources in product options. They also indicated that they would take into account my request to add the AMD support.

So my bottom line is watch out for the s/w you are planning to use and ask them which platform they will support.

Zeus

11-29-2005, 10:37 AM

Indulge my innocence. What will waiting for an iMac with a pentium processor mean? What will it do for the system and me?
The current iMac is, to my mind, the best all-round home computer you can buy on Earth today (but I'm biased...). Intel-based iMacs may be available in 6 months time - but it could be more like 12-18 months.

There are 4 real gains in waiting. Firstly, the Intel iMac will almost certainly be dual-core, so you'll basically get a dual processor machine. For multi-processor aware apps, you will see a big jump in performance - more than usual for a 6-12 month wait.

Secondly, applications will need to be re-written or re-compiled to run on the Intel iMacs. Initially, some apps will run in emulation, so they will run a little slower. But Apple will be rolling Intel chips out fast. In 2-3 years, PowerPC based apps may be hard to find - esp. games ported from the PC (for technical reasons I can explain later).

Thirdly, you'll be able to run Windows. If there's a speciality app you need, this could be a life-saver. Having 2 computers is nice for some, but I only need access to a PC maybe 1-2 times a year. The Intel iMac will be prefect for this.

Finally, Intel chips run cooler than IBM's G5 PowerPC (used in the current iMac). This isn't a huge deal in a desktop, but my iMac G5's fan is on alot! The iMac G4 was a near silent machine, which is nicer than you realise (yes, I'm a Mac snob - the details matter).

As for whether you should wait - the current iMac is nice. If you need a machine today, it will serve you well for years and will probably need replacing well before apps dry up. Besides, as an Apple shareholder I'd hate for you to hold off on a purchase. :D

Chris.

Zeus

11-29-2005, 10:38 AM

Here's the low-down on chips:

Motorola only makes the G4 used in Apple's laptops and the mini. This chip is faster than a comparably clocked Intel P4, but has two MAJOR problems. Motorola is still stuck at 1.67GHz (ouch - a P4@3.6GHz kills the G4). Worse, the G4 is still stuck with a 166MHz front-side bus. Double-data rate memory only gets used at half it's potential speed, even in the latest Powerbooks. If you're a Mac fan, don't sit a Centrino laptop next to a Powerbook - it'll make you weep...

IBM makes the G5. This chip is more like it. It's easily a match for a P4, but IBM took forever to produce a low power version suitable for a laptop (when they finally did, Apple had already decided to switch to Intel). While the G5 has serious teeth (the XBOX 360, Playstation 3, and Nintendo Revolution will all use IBM PowerPC derivatives), Apple has to some degree been ignored because they don't order enough chips. IBM has the technology, but long-term Apple couldn't fund the development.

While the P4 was always a crap chip (amazing clock speeds mean crap when you do much less per clock cycle), the Centrino (a P3 derivative developed at Intel's Israeli facilities) was and remains a tremendous success. Intel's new chips will seriously challenge AMD for the speed crown, and AMD continues to be trampled in the laptop space - a key market for Apple, as the mini and previous iMacs use laptop chips.

So why Intel only? Three possible reasons are floated by most pundits. Firstly, Intel gives Intel-only shops (like Dell until a few weeks ago) deep discounts. Secondly, future iPods will almost certainly use Intel chips (think really deep discounts for those volumes!). Many years ago Intel bought ARM, the chip maker that powered the original Newton PDA and Palm Pilots. Intel's investment is about to bear serious fruit. Finally, Apple gets a consistent chip supplier (Motorola held up Apple products many times), Windows compatibility, and the option of selling OS X to clones in future. As it is Scorp, you won't (at least not officially) initially be able to run OS X on AMD hardware.

So, am I a nerd or what?

Chris.

Jadis

11-29-2005, 11:29 AM

Mac clock speeds may be slower, but how they process information is different which makes them faster.

Jobs tried to get AMD chips. He spent a long time in negotiations but they weren't able to come to an agreement because AMD didn't feel it was worth it to them to make a chip for the Macs. That's why we are getting Intel chips.

I haven't quite figured out if this is a blessing or a curse.

LaoziSailor

11-29-2005, 12:11 PM

Just to re-iterate, if you have anything to do at all with a consulting / value-add / install type activity that is of commercial nature, DO look at the application requirements in ADDITION to the OS and H/W.

Like I mentioned before I almost shot myself in the foot by supplying an AMD based piece of H/W that would have been a DOG because the application actually checked for the Intel chip. In the end after long discussions with the application developer I went with the dual Xeon's (substantially higher price), nevertheless my customer is tickled to death with the ability to review 32 camaras (BTW, I used AXIS 241-Q blade servers to convert the analog signal into digital) which can be accessed on an IP basis.

LaoziSailor

11-29-2005, 12:18 PM

Hey Jadis,...snip...
I haven't quite figured out if this is a blessing or a curse....curse!

Despite Chris having his money on Intel, I feel AMD will retain and expand the gap they currently have. Just my .02

mr_coffee

11-29-2005, 12:58 PM

Considering Apple is going to switch to the Intel Chipset, Intel better get their shit in gear and switch up their current archecture becaause at this rate, AMD will spank Intel. Right now im' supporting an 3.4 Intel with HT, i'm very happy with its performance. BEEP BEEP IMA JEEP!

Jadis

11-29-2005, 01:22 PM

Hey Jadis,...curse!

Despite Chris having his money on Intel, I feel AMD will retain and expand the gap they currently have. Just my .02

Yeah i was trying to be polite. All five of our windoze computers run AMD. Three of them are overclocked. Mine isn't, but it still screams without needing the OC. Boog would love to get in there and OC it just to see what it can do, but I won't let him. Too bad Jobs and AMD couldn't work something out. I'm planning on getting me a new powerbook within the next two years (probably 2007 tax return), so I hope they don't do the switch before then.:mad:

mr_coffee

11-30-2005, 12:28 AM

Jadis, why don't you want them to do the switch? The switch will be a great thing for mac users, because the software will be alot easier to port to the mac if its using the same chipset as intel~!

Jadis

11-30-2005, 03:51 AM

I dislike intel with a passion. I dislike them almost as much as I do windows.

mr_coffee

11-30-2005, 11:18 PM

Why do you disklike intel so much?>

12-02-2005, 09:39 PM

Paul, is it true that the Motorola PowerPC chips Apple currently uses are faster than Intel chips, despite lower clock speeds? And do you know if Apple is switching to Intel chips completely or will they still offer machines with Motorola chips.

Hmm, I imagine AMD chips will work with the new Intel based Macs. I think I'd prefer AMD processor if the Motorola isn't going to be available...

Russ, I believe that the Mac's with the Intel chip will be faster but we will just have to take a wait-and-see approach for now (Apple Planning Intel-Ready iBook Debut for January (http://www.thinksecret.com/news/0511intelibook.html)). I also think that Apple will be phasing out the Motorola chips but may be someone knows differently.

When it comes to desktops, I prefer the AMD processors.

metronycguy

12-02-2005, 10:13 PM

just sent my power book back today, i guess i will get the 17 power book again, i do like the increased portability of the 15 inch though,

professirx

12-09-2005, 01:08 PM

mr_coffee

12-09-2005, 01:47 PM

Don't forget gaming professirx, Mac is terriable if you want to play any games, it takes like 2 years for them to port it o the Mac. Quite disturbing!

professirx

12-09-2005, 01:58 PM

Don't forget gaming professirx, Mac is terriable if you want to play any games, it takes like 2 years for them to port it o the Mac. Quite disturbing!

yea, if you want it all you maybe a mac n pc user for sure, cause i found mac powerpoint is not compatable in every school, cause mac hardware needs special converter to hook in in some schools, wise said it in one of his messages ask about specs. basically know yourself before buying a computer, who are you and what are you going to be doing should come before the computer that represents you.

mr_coffee

12-09-2005, 02:02 PM

I wish windows would start using the nice mac interface, windows vista is copying it pretty much. Adding nice little, "cute" animations like when you minimize a window or move a window. That'll be saucey. Is still in beta right now though and I ran it on a not so good system which locked up in 10 mins using the new OS.

Wise Young

12-09-2005, 02:08 PM

I used a mac since 1995, if you're a musician, video editor or anything when it comes to that I suggest a mac, it's more reliable and stable.

If you're just into word processing and internet, a PC is for you.

Just my opinion

Professir, I recently realized that the main reason I use an Apple is because it is simply more esthetic than Windows. Some people don't care about having esthetic fonts (like Lucida Grande for the system font), the little subtle shadow that all Mac windows have to give it a 3-D look, the soothing color scheme, the subtle way application icons pop and bounce to show you that they are activating, and the shadowed white fonts on the desktop in anticipation of darker backgrounds. Of course, not everybody has the same taste but the ease with which you can arrange the screen exactly the way you like is very important. Since I look at my screen as much as 18 hours a day, I want to stare at something beautiful all day long. The two-button mouse is ridiculous (in my opinion); the mac has a one-button double-click mouse or trackpad. I don't have to remember left or right, just one or two clicks.

Finally, although windows is getting better, it just is not as intuitive as Apple. Most people I know can just start using a Mac within seconds, just be grabbing a mouse and clicking away. With a little practice, you rapidly learn the mouse commands: click and drag to select text, double-click to select a word, triple-click to select all the text in the window. You can leard to use Apple-C and Apple-V to copy and paste, Apple-X in Apple-Z to undo anything, Apple-A to select all, Apple-Q for quit, Apple-W to close windows, Apple-(period) to cancel, Apple-N for new, and Apple-O for open.

Wise.

mr_coffee

12-09-2005, 02:22 PM

I agree Wise, I love how the Mac looks, if it could play games, I would be all about Mac. Also if it supported VS.net so I could do my programming on the system would be nice.

professirx

12-09-2005, 02:31 PM

Wise Young

12-09-2005, 02:51 PM

Hey wise, I been sleeping with a mac in my bed for over 10 years, commitment is definitely something a mac will make you become, and yes she's very beautiful,....lol....

Hehe, the Mac is definitely feminine. Do you name your computer? Is so, do you use a female or a male name? Wise.

Davey

12-09-2005, 02:55 PM

Professir, I recently realized that the main reason I use an Apple is because it is simply more esthetic than Windows. Some people don't care about having esthetic fonts (like Lucida Grande for the system font), the little subtle shadow that all Mac windows have to give it a 3-D look, the soothing color scheme, the subtle way application icons pop and bounce to show you that they are activating, and the shadowed white fonts on the desktop in anticipation of darker backgrounds. Of course, not everybody has the same taste but the ease with which you can arrange the screen exactly the way you like is very important. Since I look at my screen as much as 18 hours a day, I want to stare at something beautiful all day long. The two-button mouse is ridiculous (in my opinion); the mac has a one-button double-click mouse or trackpad. I don't have to remember left or right, just one or two clicks.

Finally, although windows is getting better, it just is not as intuitive as Apple. Most people I know can just start using a Mac within seconds, just be grabbing a mouse and clicking away. With a little practice, you rapidly learn the mouse commands: click and drag to select text, double-click to select a word, triple-click to select all the text in the window. You can leard to use Apple-C and Apple-V to copy and paste, Apple-X in Apple-Z to undo anything, Apple-A to select all, Apple-Q for quit, Apple-W to close windows, Apple-(period) to cancel, Apple-N for new, and Apple-O for open.

Wise.

I don't want to start a holy war, but I just don't get you Mac guys sometimes ;). While I read your comments, I kept saying to myself "Windows has that...and that too...and that too...". Just to review:

esthetic fonts -- check
the little subtle shadow that all Mac windows have to give it a 3-D look -- windows, no shadow in default theme, menus & window elements, yes.
soothing color scheme -- check, any color scheme you want
application icons pop and bounce to show you that they are activating -- give you that one for most icons
the shadowed white fonts on the desktop in anticipation of darker backgrounds -- check
can arrange the screen exactly the way you like -- check
the mac has a one-button double-click mouse or trackpad. I don't have to remember left or right, just one or two clicks -- you say tomato, I say ... you forgot click and hold (as I remember). BTW, when I use a Mac, my mouse hand hurts for days for all the click and holding I need to do ;).
click and drag to select text -- check
double-click to select a word -- check
triple-click to select all the text in the window -- nope
Apple-C and Apple-V to copy and paste -- check (use Ctrl instead of Apple)
Apple-X in Apple-Z to undo anything -- check (use Ctrl instead of Apple)
Apple-A to select all -- check (use Ctrl instead of Apple)
Apple-Q for quit -- check (use Ctrl instead of Apple)
Apple-W to close windows -- partial check (use Ctrl instead of Apple), or Alt-F4 (I'll give you that one ;))
Apple-(period) to cancel -- check (just use Escape)
Apple-N for new -- check (use Ctrl instead of Apple)
Apple-O for open -- check (use Ctrl instead of Apple)So almost everything you use to say a Mac is so much better than a PC is almost identical on a PC. I just don't get it -- the Mac is great, but it's no computing nirvana.

professirx

12-09-2005, 03:31 PM

Hehe, the Mac is definitely feminine. Do you name your computer? Is so, do you use a female or a male name? Wise.

Awwww , I never named her, but if I do, I probably call her Tashana, since that's my best friends name.... slim and sexy

Scott Pruett

12-09-2005, 03:32 PM

Hehe, the Mac is definitely feminine. Do you name your computer? Is so, do you use a female or a male name? Wise.
Speak for yourself. I have two manly Macs. My Powerbook has scars that it's proud of, and my Powermac has balls. Just open the side cover & you'll see. :applaud:

I don't name my computers, but the hard drives in my G5 are named Harry, Lloyd, & Petey... references to Dumb & Dumber. :D

Scorpion

12-09-2005, 04:37 PM

Professir, I recently realized that the main reason I use an Apple is because it is simply more esthetic than Windows.
As an artist/designer, this is a big plus for me as well. Yes, WindowsXP is much better in this area and in user-friendliness than previous versions of Windows, but I think the Mac just has more finesse. The aesthetics of an OS are a matter of personal taste, though. The Mac being more user-friendly and a more stable OS than Windows (at least since MacOS X -- previous Mac OS versions crashed a LOT for me) is hard to deny, and is much less subjective in my opinion.

Davey - When I still had a Windows machine (I had both a Mac & a PC for a while, until my PC died), I liked that WindowsXP had flexibility for the user interface to be customized, and I saw some cool design themes. But that stuff eats up a lot of processor power and RAM, I believe. I hear what you're saying, and I'm by no means a Mac snob (Mac snobs have always annoyed the fuck out of me), but one man's Nirvana is another man's Limbo, to mix mythological metaphors. :) You make good points about key-strokes, because I think a lot of Mac users don't realize keystrokes are also available with Windows.

Windows isn't as bad as a lot of people seem to think, but I have definitely become a Mac-addict, and I used to think I wouldn't become one. :)

Davey

12-09-2005, 06:04 PM

Windows isn't as bad as a lot of people seem to think, but I have definitely become a Mac-addict, and I used to think I wouldn't become one. :)

I agree. I had a "close call" the other day ;). I was considering getting a video iPod for my son for Christmas. I currently have all my CDs ripped to a music server as WMAs and he currently uses a Dell DJ. I was wondering what all the hub-bub was all about so I downloaded and installed iTunes. So far so good, I then ripped my first CD. WTF is the big deal with this piece of s...oftware? I couldn't believe that I needed to manually download and drop album art. I'd have to do this for each of the almost 2000 CDs that I would need to re-rip if I started using iTunes instead of WMP10. The playback also stuttered -- don't now what was causing that -- my machine is tweaked just fine, but that was wierd. I couldn't find a way to change the way iTunes named my ripped files. Sorting by "Album Artist" instead of just "Artist" is a feature in WMP10 that I couldn't live without. I know WMP10's not perfect, but I removed iTunes from my PC and I'll wait for the gen3 DJs. I dodged a bullet on that one... :D

Monique

12-10-2005, 02:20 AM

The two-button mouse is ridiculous (in my opinion); the mac has a one-button double-click mouse or trackpad.

:eek: Dr. Young, you have no idea how long it took me to figure out that right click on a PC = CTRL+click on a Mac...and every frustrated Mac user that I've told that to has been eternally grateful, LOL.

professirx

12-10-2005, 03:04 AM

Jadis

12-10-2005, 03:44 AM

I never even thought of that. I've been using macs for so long, CTRL+click was just natural. No wonder you were so frustrated. The first iMac in the house had the hockey puck and it drove Boog crazy. He wouldn't even attempt to turn the thing on. :D

mingo

12-10-2005, 10:44 AM

Do you name your computer? Is so, do you use a female or a male name? Wise.

My PC is named: ITJUSTWORKS

And it does. So, I'm happy and it's a compromise effort with my mac friend.

Jadis

12-10-2005, 03:55 PM

Hehe, the Mac is definitely feminine. Do you name your computer? Is so, do you use a female or a male name? Wise.

Ahh, yes. Computer names. LOL Booger laughed at me for naming mine, til he named his. Then I was told to shut up. I couldn't help but make fun of him, it was too easy.

Bondi iMac Codename "Columbus" by Apple = Bubbles.
Indigo iMac Sept 2000 version= Yamaha, or Yami for short. Yami was delivered 3 days before my wedding. Our colors were Yamaha Blue and white (Boog picked them. He was even fussy about the correct blue. "No that's the 1998 Snowcat blue, we want the 2000 YZ blue."):zombie: Drove me nuts. I said if he's gonna fuss, he's gotta pick it out. He ended up going with me to pick out fabrics, icing colors, anything that involved blue to ensure that I got it right. Can't say the man wasn't involved in wedding planning. :p
G4 Powerbook = Ruby. I was into Red at the time.
My Windoze homebuilt = Scarlett. Still into red.
Boog's windoze homebuilt = BlueIce.

Jello's windoze box, the dell and the server aren't named anything special as far as I know. I haven't bothered to look at the network in a while.

Scott Pruett

12-10-2005, 04:02 PM

:eek: Dr. Young, you have no idea how long it took me to figure out that right click on a PC = CTRL+click on a Mac...and every frustrated Mac user that I've told that to has been eternally grateful, LOL.
Drove me crazy too. I bought a simple 2-button optical Microsoft mouse (heresy, I know... bite me.:D) w/ a scroll wheel for < $20. Problem solved. I do use a single-button Apple mouse too...

Jadis

12-10-2005, 04:54 PM

Scott, you're forgiven LOL

I have learned through medical transcription class, that the mouse is evil and slows down speed. I've made a point to learn keyboard short cuts.

Here's a few of my favorites:
Apple+Tab= shows you all the programs you have running. While holding down the Apple button, you can repeatedly hit tab to scroll through the open programs. When you stop on the one that's highlighted, that's the one that pops to the front of all other programs.

Apple+H=hide. This hides the active program and all the associated windows. Perfect if you are working on something top secret or have kids popping in unexpectedly while browsing the R/S forum. The program shows up as a ghosted icon in your dock (if you have it in the dock). You can click on it there to reactivate, or do the Apple+Tab to highlight it and reactivate the program. I use hide when I have a lot of windows running in a program and need to clean my desktop for something else that I am working on.

I also browse in tabs in Safari. I have it set up to open new links in emails into a tab in the active window so I minimize the number of separate windows I have open on my desktop. When I want a new window, I hit CTRL+T and get a window nestled with a new tab, instead of CTRL+N which gives me a separate window.

I also use macros, which increase typing speed. I can type HTN and hypertension is spelled out, or PAC for premature atrial contractions. This can be used for other things also, may be helpful for those of you who are hunt/peck typers or those who have difficulty due to injury.