web site creation - beginner

[waters3]

Hi,

I hope I can get some help from this forum. I have an existing website that was created in Dreamweaver by a web designer and I pay her to make any changes I need. This is getting to be too expensive for us so I want to take total control of my site. I haven't decided if I should start from scratch and re-create the whole thing so I can really learn Dreamweaver from start to finish and because I think it needs to be optimized I don't think she did this when she created it. Or just try and do any changes that I need for the moment. Right now I have some minor text changes that need to be made and I want to add about 2 pages.

I have worked with a lot of software programs in the past e.g., all applications of MS Office, Corel Draw, PageMaker, Designer, and took one beginning HTML class about 7 years ago. Do you think learning Dreamweaver is too hard for someone to learn that is a total beginner and is not familiar with web site building lingo.

If I re-create the whole site I still want to keep my existing domain name is that possible and does DW have a FTP tool so I can upload it. Do you upload individual pages to the hosting server, or is the site a whole entity? Anyway that will be a whole other issue later.

You can see our site at http://www.chromehorserentals.com if it helps answer any of my questions. I also don't know if the form that is on our site was created in DW; can that be done using DW?

There was some talk earlier about static and dynamic, I think my site is static because there is no database involved, is that correct.

Do most hosting services support FrontPage now? I know this was an issue in the past. I have a copy of FrontPage 2002 but it seems that there is more positive feedback from ppl saying to use Dreamweaver because it is compliant or something like that. Anyway that's all for now, thanks for any help.

Cindy Waters
mom to Anthony c5,c6
injury 03/03, age 23

[philquad36]

thats a nice site
you should be able to edit it no prob, to me the hardest bit would be the graphics.
frontpage is easy, a bit like using m/s word, but it has limitations and for some reason certain webbers dont like it.
i think dream is a little harder to understand.

ftp is easy. organize your site on your computer, logon to your host via ftp
index.htm is nearly allways your 1st page.
you can add/change files as you like with ftp.

1 thing i like about uploading through frontpage is it sorts out what your uploading with whats allready there. save lots of confusion and extra files on your site.

[Salimacatwoman]

I like DW,for me it was easy to learn,I have used it in a few sites I've built,though i just use HTML,my site English-Spanish-Services (http://www.english-spanish-services.biz/)was built with just DW (it's very simple,not a fancy site).

I must say I prefer to use a CMS for my site Wheels for independence because it saves time and make any site look neater, with less effort for designing.

The hosting I have for wheels (Digital Sense Hosting (http://www.dsensehosting.net/))accepts FP,it has a special block for it.

Good luck at DW;)

[Jeremy]

I don't know if this will be of help but there's a program called Antenna Web Design thats easy to use here's a link http://www.stormdance.net/software/antenna/software%20overview.htm

[Lewis]

Your web site is great, although it's a wreck under the hood.

It's always more difficult to work with an existing site that has been developed and designed by someone else. You're better off starting over and creating your own.

With respect to What You See Is What You Get programs, I think you're better off learning HTML and CSS. You do not need any special programs. As a matter of fact, I would argue some of these programs are more difficult to learn than the actual HTML and CSS.

FTP can easily be accomplished using a free program called FileZilla (http://sourceforge.net/projects/filezilla), one of many free FTP programs.

Learning all this will not be easy and will take some time. There are many web sites that offer free information for you to accomplish your goal. One of my favorite sites is W3Schools (http://www.w3schools.com/).

I think you need to get your feet wet. Once you have your feet wet, post any questions that you run into.

[waters3]

CMS?

Someone else also suggested using a CMS but then a couple more ppl have suggested that this method was not necessary because my site was simple and under 50 pages?

Wreck under the hood?

I knew it, but I don't know what should be done to fix it. I can have it (optimization) done by the ppl that submit my site monthly to the search engines; they want $1500 to do it.

Does DW walk you through with any tips on what you should do in your site to make it neat and clean and accessible to search engines when building your site? Or is this something that you only can know by experience.

[waters3]

"I must say I prefer to use a CMS for my site Wheels for independence because it saves time and make any site look neater, with less effort for designing."

You're right this site is clean looking; i like it. What is a "CMS" are these different programs? or do you just write everything from scratch; code only?

[Salimacatwoman]

CMS?

Someone else also suggested using a CMS but then a couple more ppl have suggested that this method was not necessary because my site was simple and under 50 pages?

Wreck under the hood?

I knew it, but I don't know what should be done to fix it. I can have it (optimization) done by the ppl that submit my site monthly to the search engines; they want $1500 to do it.

Does DW walk you through with any tips on what you should do in your site to make it neat and clean and accessible to search engines when building your site? Or is this something that you only can know by experience.

There are many good search engines in which you can submit for free,it is a little slowly but at the end your site gets promoted, also joining forums and other sites will allow promoting your site.

At Go Daddy (https://www.godaddy.com/) (Domain seller and more),they have a program: Traffic Blazer,it's not so expensive ($30.00 dlls more or less per year),you can submit your site to the best/most famous Search Engines.

CMS, helps you to keep a "theme" in your page/site and it organizes the info in blocks,also it gives you HTML customization,etc...

[waters3]

I found a good site that explains what a CMS is:

http://www.steptwo.com.au/papers/kmc_what/index.html

and I was very interested until I read:

"The good news is that a lightweight CMS, suitable for a modest-sized website, is not expensive. It can be as low as a few thousand dollars, or simply a complementary part of the web design project. "

I thought a CMS was supposed to be inexpensive? Also when I checked how much for example what etechsolutions CMS sold for it was over $7,000! Am I understanding that these programs are really for a large company that has several ppl working on the company's site at different times so need for organization is essential. Are there CMS programs that are just for individual's?

[waters3]

There are many good search engines in which you can submit for free,it is a little slowly but at the end your site gets promoted, also joining forums and other sites will allow promoting your site.

At Go Daddy (https://www.godaddy.com/) (Domain seller and more),they have a program: Traffic Blazer,it's not so expensive ($30.00 dlls more or less per year),you can submit your site to the best/most famous Search Engines.

CMS, helps you to keep a "theme" in your page/site and it organizes the info in blocks,also it gives you HTML customization,etc...

So am i understanding that I am paying a company to do submissions every month and you are only supposed to submit your site once to all the major search engines? It is probably a waste of money at this time anyway because my site is a mess (underneath). What a nightmare.

[LooseCannon]

A Content Management System (CMS) is a perfect solution for your situation. A CMS allows non-technical content contributors to seamlessy create, edit, and publish web content.

There is absolutely NO reason to pay someone and/or for you to learn all the intricate details of web design/develop to update web content. I suggest you find a developer to install config Joomla (http://www.joomla.com/) on your web hosting server.

Joomla (http://www.joomla.com/) is my CMS choice, it's FREE, Open Source, PHP/MySQL based and has a strong developer/support community. Last I looked it also offers a search optimizer.

Drop me line if you would like to further discuss implementing a CMS.

Good luck!

[trainman]

I make and maintain sites for a living. Dreamweaver isn't very difficult to understand, and I suggest not touching FrontPage.

Or, if all else fails, I do updates for about $20 :)

Feel free to check my site, www.vmtweb.com

[waters3]

I make and maintain sites for a living. Dreamweaver isn't very difficult to understand, and I suggest not touching FrontPage.

Or, if all else fails, I do updates for about $20 :)

Feel free to check my site, www.vmtweb.com

hey this is great. I will certainly keep you in mind these rates are something that we can handle. Do you have any experience in optimizing a site while you are building/recreating it? I might consider having it be recreated by someone that knows how to clean it up under the hood.

[waters3]

So let me see if I am understanding CMS's a little better. Is a CMS just a "process" that includes creating, publishing and being able to edit your website content and then there are individual software programs that allow you to achieve this goal?

If my site was re-created in Dreamweaver can I then access it on my hosting company's server to make changes, add pages, etc. using one of these software programs even though my site was created in Dreamweaver?

[LaoziSailor]

Tim Berners-Lee (http://www.w3.org/People/Berners-Lee/), W3C (http://www.w3.org/Consortium/) Director and inventor of the World Wide Web

"The power of the Web is in its
universality. Access by everyone
regardless of disability is an
essential aspect."
...and when you are all done, give yourself a gold star :first: and be proud to add:

http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http://www.w3.org/
W3C XHTML 1.0 logo {IMG} code doesn't support PNGs{/IMG} ?
http://www.w3.org/Icons/valid-xhtml10.png

http://jigsaw.w3.org/css-validator/images/vcss.gif (http://jigsaw.w3.org/css-validator/)

http://www.w3.org/WAI/wcag1AA.gif (http://www.w3.org/WAI/)

to your website. :applaud:

Cheers!

[Lewis]

Wreck under the hood?

I believe in creating standards compliant and accessible web sites. Dreamweaver, or any other software for that matter, will not do all the work for you.

[Lewis]

Is a CMS just a "process" that includes creating, publishing and being able to edit your website content and then there are individual software programs that allow you to achieve this goal?
CMS stands for Content Management System. A CMS' real power comes from its ability to allow individuals to edit and add entries to pages of a web site without knowing CSS or HTML or any programming languages.

Setting up a CMS and building a web site with one is an entirely different aspect. It's easy if you're familiar with the technologies, but can be a daunting task for someone who is new to the field.

Although it's a great step towards managing your site, you may be biting off more than you can chew. If you do decide to go with a CMS, you do not need to pay any money. Several free CMSs exist that are very popular and well supported by thriving communities. Textpattern (http://textpattern.com/) is one of several, although one of the best in my opinion.
If my site was re-created in Dreamweaver can I then access it on my hosting company's server to make changes, add pages, etc. using one of these software programs even though my site was created in Dreamweaver?
You're missing something. Dreamweaver does not create anything special. It's simply an interface that allows you to create CSS and HTML (including other technologies). What you do with the pages that it creates is up to you. They are no different than the ones you could create by hand or by using another program.

Having said that, many CMSs utilize a template system that is proprietary. This usually means learning its proprietary template system and then cutting and pasting your pages appropriately. Most CMSs treat web sites as modular, made up of many assets. One of its jobs is to peace those assets together.

Whatever approach you take, you cannot design your web site without knowing HTML and CSS. It's that simple.

[Salimacatwoman]

So am i understanding that I am paying a company to do submissions every month and you are only supposed to submit your site once to all the major search engines? It is probably a waste of money at this time anyway because my site is a mess (underneath). What a nightmare.

I bought the Traffic Blaze for the issue of saving a little time submitting to search engines,besides it was 19 dlls when I bought it:p ,but I'd never pay for site submission anymore!,just look at google for search enginess (free search engines), at my site I have a few search engines links,so maybe you can use them.

On the other hand, CMS is like Postnuke (I was using postnuke a years ago),currently I am using Geeklog.

[LooseCannon]

So let me see if I am understanding CMS's a little better. Is a CMS just a "process" that includes creating, publishing and being able to edit your website content and then there are individual software programs that allow you to achieve this goal?


You're thinking along the right lines. A CMS is the software that helps you achieve the goal of managing content for faster changes.

[Raven]

Maybe I'm old-fashioned but I like working with U-Edit. I use it to do my webpages. PSP for some of my backgrounds including 20/20 for viewing it tiled. Am content with it too. On my host, they allow me to work any corrections within the site itself and it allows also for uploading my files.

[Scott Pruett]

I'm more comfortable working in the code directly, but use Dreamweaver often for efficiency b/c it has some built-in shortcuts. If you don't understand markup languages like HTML, etc., don't waste your time w/ Dreamweaver/etc trying to learn unless you have extra time on your hands.

If you use a mac, I can highly recommend Rapidweaver (http://www.realmacsoftware.com/rapidweaver/index.php) for
quick site creation that looks pretty decent. There are a lot of templates available for it, & it's very easy to use.

The CMS suggestions are good as well. Once the framework is in place, updates are easy. I'm slowly implementing ExpressionEngine (http://www.pmachine.com/ee/) (not free, but worth the cost for us) on two sites, and I've used pMachine Pro (http://www.pmachine.com/pm/) (replaced by ExpressionEngine & now free) on a few in the past. I've been pleased w/ the company that developed these... great support & very refined products.

[waters3]

I'm more comfortable working in the code directly, but use Dreamweaver often for efficiency b/c it has some built-in shortcuts. If you don't understand markup languages like HTML, etc., don't waste your time w/ Dreamweaver/etc trying to learn unless you have extra time on your hands.

If you use a mac, I can highly recommend Rapidweaver (http://www.realmacsoftware.com/rapidweaver/index.php) for
quick site creation that looks pretty decent. There are a lot of templates available for it, & it's very easy to use.

The CMS suggestions are good as well. Once the framework is in place, updates are easy. I'm slowly implementing ExpressionEngine (http://www.pmachine.com/ee/) (not free, but worth the cost for us) on two sites, and I've used pMachine Pro (http://www.pmachine.com/pm/) (replaced by ExpressionEngine & now free) on a few in the past. I've been pleased w/ the company that developed these... great support & very refined products.

I guess it is going to boil down to which program I can find that does not require me to know any code but will be able to create my website the way I want it. There is a person that is willing to help me with a program called Word Press http://codex.wordpress.org Has anyone heard of that one? I also remember using something called SiteBuilder a long time ago. And I remember no having to know any code using that, e.g. being able to layout my page, adding navigation buttons and then adding text links in those buttons, choosing colors of the background, text, hover links, etc. all with just clicks of the mouse, no code involved. I am going to look at that Joombla also. Anymore software out there the you know of that will allow me to do this? thanks

[waters3]

A Content Management System (CMS) is a perfect solution for your situation. A CMS allows non-technical content contributors to seamlessy create, edit, and publish web content.

There is absolutely NO reason to pay someone and/or for you to learn all the intricate details of web design/develop to update web content. I suggest you find a developer to install config Joomla (http://www.joomla.com/) on your web hosting server.

Joomla (http://www.joomla.com/) is my CMS choice, it's FREE, Open Source, PHP/MySQL based and has a strong developer/support community. Last I looked it also offers a search optimizer.

Drop me line if you would like to further discuss implementing a CMS.

Good luck!



well i went to Joomla.org and wanted to see a demo. a screen came up but no option to see the demo. I download the latest copy 1.0.3 to my desktop but there is no setup file to run. There is no way to contact them to ask for help either. Not good signs alread

[Salimacatwoman]

Waters3:

Check more options! www.postnuke.com (http://www.postnuke.com) or www.geeklog.net (http://www.geeklog.net)

Suggestion: Try learning by yourself, so you'll make all what you want your page without asking,in the same way, you'll not have to "wait" to be helped;)

Lol, my brother (youngest one) sometimes hates me because when I need info about settings or other things I am always asking him!:o

[Scott Pruett]

well i went to Joomla.org and wanted to see a demo. a screen came up but no option to see the demo. I download the latest copy 1.0.3 to my desktop but there is no setup file to run. There is no way to contact them to ask for help either. Not good signs alread
The setup will occur on a web server, not your home computer. I haven't used Joomla, but I assume what you have to do is upload all the files to a server, make sure you have database access, & run an installation script.

[waters3]

Waters3:

Check more options! www.postnuke.com (http://www.postnuke.com) or www.geeklog.net (http://www.geeklog.net)

Suggestion: Try learning by yourself, so you'll make all what you want your page without asking,in the same way, you'll not have to "wait" to be helped;)

Lol, my brother (youngest one) sometimes hates me because when I need info about settings or other things I am always asking him!:o

Right. I am trying to learn myself but am having a hard time finding a CMS that will alllow me to try a demo on my computer and not having to have it installed on my server. I want to be able to make sure I can use the software myself to create the site before I go through all the trouble of installing the product (whichever one it may be) on my server, which will be a whole other learning experience itself I'm sure :). Thanks for the sites i'll check them out.

[waters3]

The setup will occur on a web server, not your home computer. I haven't used Joomla, but I assume what you have to do is upload all the files to a server, make sure you have database access, & run an installation script.

Yep learning lesson of today. Figured this out today.

[Lewis]

Right. I am trying to learn myself but am having a hard time finding a CMS that will alllow me to try a demo on my computer and not having to have it installed on my server. I want to be able to make sure I can use the software myself to create the site before I go through all the trouble of installing the product (whichever one it may be) on my server, which will be a whole other learning experience itself I'm sure :). Thanks for the sites i'll check them out.

You can find many online demos through this site (http://www.opensourcecms.com/), made up primarily of open source CMSs.

[LooseCannon]

well i went to Joomla.org and wanted to see a demo. a screen came up but no option to see the demo. I download the latest copy 1.0.3 to my desktop but there is no setup file to run. There is no way to contact them to ask for help either. Not good signs alread

The Joomla demo is up and working (maybe they had a brief outage??).

1) Select demo from the homepage
2) Select Administrator from the left nav bar.
3) Login


Joomla runs on a PHP enabled web server (like your web hosting server). You can run it locally, but you'll need to install/config Apache and PHP. You're better off running the install on your hosting server.


Most free opensource software products are not supported by a business, that is there isn't a 1-800 number or email provided for support. Instead the support comes from a community of users and developers via forums. Click on the Forum tab in the top nav.


As already stated http://opensourcecms.com (http://opensourcecms.com/) is a good resource.

[waters3]

The Joomla demo is up and working (maybe they had a brief outage??).

1) Select demo from the homepage
2) Select Administrator from the left nav bar.
3) Login


Joomla runs on a PHP enabled web server (like your web hosting server). You can run it locally, but you'll need to install/config Apache and PHP. You're better off running the install on your hosting server.


Most free opensource software products are not supported by a business, that is there isn't a 1-800 number or email provided for support. Instead the support comes from a community of users and developers via forums. Click on the Forum tab in the top nav.


As already stated http://opensourcecms.com (http://opensourcecms.com/) is a good resource.

Thanks. I kinda got this idea after looking at several CMS's and all need to be installed on my server. I didn't have my login info with me today and as a matter of fact have never been on my server. I think I understood that after a certain time period it certain demos will uninstall everything off my server; is that correct so I don't have a bunch of different demo info debri left on it.

[waters3]

You know i might be going backwards here, but why couldn't I just use something like Yahoo's PageBuilder or one of the free site builders that sometimes come with your hosting services. Are they not sophisticated enough for creating a website like mine? http://www.chromehorserentals.com. I swear this topic should be over soon.

[LooseCannon]

I thought you were looking for a way to update the content of an existing site, not do a site redesign. Maybe I misunderstood your overall objective...

Properly designing/developing an elegant appealing functional site requires a broad knowledge of concepts, tools and languages. It's a lot more involved then updating web content. The free WYSIWYG tools are ok for personal or family web sites, but not for a business.

[waters3]

I thought you were looking for a way to update the content of an existing site, not do a site redesign. Maybe I misunderstood your overall objective...

Properly designing/developing an elegant appealing functional site requires a broad knowledge of concepts, tools and languages. It's a lot more involved then updating web content. The free WYSIWYG tools are ok for personal or family web sites, but not for a business.

I actually hadn't made my decision, I could either find a way to edit my existing site in DreamWeaver or just totally redo it myself. So all information was very helpful. I checked out the Antenna Web Design program by www.stormdance.net that Jeremy suggested and I loved it. This seems familiar with what I have done in the past and way more easier and creative than a CMS. In the meantime though I am having Trainman do changes to my existing site. Thank you all for your knowledge.

[Salimacatwoman]

I actually hadn't made my decision, I could either find a way to edit my existing site in DreamWeaver or just totally redo it myself. So all information was very helpful. I checked out the Antenna Web Design program by www.stormdance.net (http://www.stormdance.net/) that Jeremy suggested and I loved it. This seems familiar with what I have done in the past and way more easier and creative than a CMS. In the meantime though I am having Trainman do changes to my existing site. Thank you all for your knowledge.

I think (not sure and without trying to cause any trouble), that you are a little confussed about the kind of website you want to build or re do, true that a website without CMS can be more creative and versatile but it's harder to improve and update, you'll need plenty time for working on it and making changes.

On the other hand, there are many CMS that offer WYSIWYG (Postnuke has included it into the features,also they offer wiki), Geeklog doesn't have WYSIWYG, though there is a plug for it (I use an editor for it),also if you know the basic codes it's easy to use them, you can edit any CMS from it's "config.php" and add your own info (like banners, or settings).

When you buy hosting, most sites give you the Cpanel, this helps for uploading files and controlling your site better.

Good luck!:)

[waters3]

I think (not sure and without trying to cause any trouble), that you are a little confussed about the kind of website you want to build or re do, true that a website without CMS can be more creative and versatile but it's harder to improve and update, you'll need plenty time for working on it and making changes.

On the other hand, there are many CMS that offer WYSIWYG (Postnuke has included it into the features,also they offer wiki), Geeklog doesn't have WYSIWYG, though there is a plug for it (I use an editor for it),also if you know the basic codes it's easy to use them, you can edit any CMS from it's "config.php" and add your own info (like banners, or settings).

When you buy hosting, most sites give you the Cpanel, this helps for uploading files and controlling your site better.

Good luck!:)

I went to WordPress to try it out and absolutely HATED IT. My site once up will only need occassional text changes. Antenna uses CSS so I thought that if you did a change to design content it would change it throughout.

[Jeremy]

Waters3

You might like to try 1st Page http://www.evrsoft.com/ 1st Page 2000 is free and has CSS they also have a beta 1st Page 2006 version which I haven't tried yet but I've down loaded it to check it out.

Jeremy

[Scott Pruett]

You might like to try 1st Page http://www.evrsoft.com/ 1st Page 2000 is free and has CSS they also have a beta 1st Page 2006 version which I haven't tried yet but I've down loaded it to check it out.
I used this years ago in my pre-mac days. It's a solid program & I can only assume it has improved over the years.

[Polett]

Hi,

If you want/need help redesigning your site, e-mail me at info@polett.com
I'll be more than happy to help out.

I know it's late in the thread but my 2 cents are that any WYSIWYG software you use is only good as a tool. HTML knowledge always comes handy to keep your coding clean and simple but, if you ONLY change minor text contents, I would go for FP.

Anyhow, like I said, if you'd like help, just yell.

[garvey]

For what it's worth - I just found an interesting site -
www.lynda.com
that provides tutorial videos on a long list of software titles - I signed up for Flash training.
$25 / mo gives unlimited access.
Recommended By Kevin Kelly at his Cool Tools website - he used to write for Whole Earth Quaterly.

[waters3]

hey thanks alot. I actually had Trainman redo my whole site and will be doing changes in the future. I'm glad I could give someone on this group my work and he did a good job. I haven't decided yet if I'm going to take over in the near future here. Full-time caregiver and all ya know.

[trainman]

Lynda.com is a good source for books.

I try my best, just glad to help.