Steve Petrofsky/Electrologic (FES)is coming to my home

[Claire]

this Sunday. So any C6/7 users who would like to have an easier time using the bike and optimally be independent using it, let me know what changes you'd like to see made. If we're paying $13/$14000 for a customized bike, and it is sold as such, then it should be.
I have many concerns about the FES bike being user friendly to the C6/7 quad that Steve is coming to my home to do a personal assessment of the bike with me. I bought the bike under the assertion I could use it completely independently and I can't. Beside redesigning the seat and also making it height friendly, I think there should be velcro straps on the boots and plastic loops sewn to the seat for easy access to the cables. A ring should be placed on the T spring that releases and locks the arm in place. I think a balance bar should be installed to insure a safe transfer. That's my list.
This is a great product. But, if it is warranted to be a product that a C6/7 can use completely independently, then so be it. We DESERVE to get what we pay for.

This is our chance to be a big part of Research and Development in a product that can serve us well for a long time. So what changes would you make??? And, any comments please.

[larwatson]

I think you've covered it pretty well. You thought of stuff that I didn't.

[Curt Leatherbee]

How did it go Claire? did you make any Progress?

"Life is about how you
respond to not only the
challenges you're dealt but
the challenges you seek...If
you have no goals, no
mountains to climb, your
soul dies".~Liz Fordred

[rapid524]

Claire, I'm also a C 6/7 and my rehab Dr. is writing me a script for an FES bike. I had just assumed that I would need help to use it. Having the capability to use it independently would be great! Thanks for pushing for the modifications and keep us posted on your progess.

[Claire]

Hi Guys,
I'd say it went well. We had some difficult moments over the phone; i was firm about my expectations and he was firm on defending company policy - road blocks for each of us. But we stayed open to communicate. Steve drove 650 miles on Sunday, not just for me - he needed to be in upstate Pa. on Monday, but all in all he detoured himself by 8 hours or so to meet about the bike.
He is going to totally redesign the seat for C6/7/8, forget all that contour and extra height. the seat will also be squared off. he will also put a ring on the T spring. i am pushing velcro straps. he wants me to persist and work with the snap device. he said they loosen up. i will give it a try, but velcro would be easier from the get go and cheaper than plastic. Steve thinks the foot would fly out of the boot. i don't. i've used the flexaciser for almost a year and have not had a problem with the velcro straps. velcro straps would need to be replaced but i don't see that as a problem. the slats in the boot will need to be wider to accomodate the velcro thickness, so the factory adjusts the programs cutout measurements. i have to call Steve about that. finally, the T like bar on the front of the bike to use for balance. we went out to my van and he watched me transfer and saw how i used the passenger seat armrest for support. he took pictures and listened to my ideas on design. i think that's a must. and he took pictures of my chair next to the fes seat.

i appreciate that Steve made the effort; i believe he wants to make a better product. i also know he knows i mean business and that i won't stop being a nuisance. i told him i would be "haunting" him. so he said i was forcing him to produce the next generation bike sooner and that he'll most likely produce a para bike and a quad bike. how 'bout that!!!

so that's it. i am curious about how you guys feel about the snaps on the straps. what are your thoughts on the velcro or anything for that matter?

Claire

[Claire]

Hi Rapid,

if you buy now, i think you'll have to pay again later to make upgrades. steve said i'll have to wait 2 months tops for the new seat. once 1 is made, then they will have to make 2. the ring on the T spring will happen soon too. i think he and i will possibly be butting heads on the straps and the bar for balancing yourself. i believe these changes are very doable though. while i got a positive response to his entertaining these changes, steve was not specific with outcome. i WILL expect that changes be made(barring good feedback about the snaps on straps). i can strap myself in with the velcro in seconds. minutes of fumbling with snaps is wasted time
and energy. i hope people post about this. feedback is important. i will get back to you.

[Curt Leatherbee]

Claire it sounds like you made some real good progress.

You are right about those clip things on the foot straps, they are not very easy to use, even for a para, but I am sure the reason he is against using velcro is because as it wears it loses its "clinging ability" and all it would take is one persons leg popping out and breaking for there to be a Lawsuit against Electrologic. As long as the straps were replaced on a regular basis, this would not be a problem, but most people are not very good with maintenance.

I would think you could have somebody help you change the foot straps over to velcro ones (Home Depot and other hardware stores sell velcro) with no problems, Just remove the existing straps and cut and install the velcro ones. It should be an easy job and at least Electrologic would not be liable if anything happened then. This would solve what I can imagine is a huge problem for someone with limited finger dexterity getting on and off the existing "nightmarish" foot strap locks.

Same thing goes for the Bar you are talking about, it would not be too hard to do and I suspect the reason Steve is leary on this idea is because of liability too, if someone were to fall and hit their head on the bar, this could put ELA at lawsuit risk too.

At least it sounds like the Major complaint you had (the Seat) is going to be taken care of and that should make things a lot easier for you.

Good work.

Just out of Curiosity, How much extra is he charging you for the different seat? I know regularly seats use to sell for $500.00, or will he just exchange yours for the new one? I remember upgrades as being very expensive, They still owe me a galaxy upgrade (worth $5000.00 on my bike for work I had done for them, I told them to hold off and just do it if the control unit ever burns out as it works fine now even though I would get a little better of a workout on the Galaxy over my Orion. I figure though, if it aint broke, dont fix it, lol. Tinkering around with a good working bike may end up spelling trouble and I dont want to be without my bike for more than two days.

"Life is about how you
respond to not only the
challenges you're dealt but
the challenges you seek...If
you have no goals, no
mountains to climb, your
soul dies".~Liz Fordred

[This message was edited by Curtis on 07-09-03 at 10:27 PM.]

[Claire]

Hi Curtis,

i'm not paying a red cent! they have to stand behind their implied warranty as far as i'm concerned. initially, i explained in detail my level of independence and that it was important and necessary that i be independent with this bike. the whole bike will go back on principle and i'll contact Dean Kamen with my ideas or MIT's Neuroprosthetic(?)group. and i won't lose a dime.
don't verbally advertise that a C6/7 can use the bike independently then to make a sale.
regarding the velcro straps. that's a good idea, but ELA will need to cut larger slats in my boots to hold a thicker, wider strap(with velcro)at no charge. i still think a cushioned leather support bar(no sharp edges - he knows what i mean as i showed him a good facsimilie)is needed and regarding a person falling into the bar - what's the difference between hitting your head on that or hitting your head on the frame. it's a liabilty concern either way. i'd rather have a support mechanism in place than not.
i saw other accessibility problems with the bike when i received it. the seat was so glaringly obvious(because it's our first hurdle)that i saw stars and went on about that first. i've given steve enough R & D ideas that the bike should be much more appealing and user friendly to the independent quad and increase sales. i'm surprised only now did he realize the benefits of selling 2 different bikes, one for paras and one for independent quads.

[Curt Leatherbee]

All this is good to hear that they did not just end up brushing you off and take the bike back and refunded your money, like you said it will really help out others too. It is kinda strange when you think about it that here they have been producing bikes for Paralyzed people for over 20 years and the design is unsuitable for so many people. I guess its a good thing you got involved as you did.

I think using one of these bikes on a regular basis is one of the best things you can do for your body, just make sure to use it at least every other day. It will take time, but I am sure you will be impressed with the results.

Its kinda like one my Handcycles that I have. It comes through with a rock hard seat that will give a person with no sensation a pressure sore if they are not real careful, I find it best to use a roho cushion over it and have had no problems. But here is a manufacture that makes a product for Paralyzed people with a seat that could cause us great harm, go figure?. Good thing I have freinds who told me right after I got the bike to use the roho, otherwise I could have ended up in the hospital with a sore with all the time I spend on my Handcycle.

"Life is about how you
respond to not only the
challenges you're dealt but
the challenges you seek...If
you have no goals, no
mountains to climb, your
soul dies".~Liz Fordred

[This message was edited by Curtis on 07-11-03 at 01:10 PM.]

[antiquity]

Good job Claire. I'm sure there many people who have experienced the same frustrations but never thought to get in touch with Steve and voice them. Poor design and ease of use issues are probably one of the main reasons a lot of exercise equipment made for SCI's ends up in the closet collecting dust. Thanks for being a voice.

[This message was edited by seneca on 07-12-03 at 04:23 PM.]

[betheny]

Way to give'em hell, Claire!


You'd better get a big gun 'cause I'm not dead yet."
---The Bad Examples

[member412678]

Claire,
It's great that you spoke up. So many people just accept things as they are. Because you didn't, alot of people will benefit from your efforts.

Rapid 524 I see you are from Amarillo. I'd like to ask you some questions if you don't mind. Can you email me from my profile?
Thanks

[Claire]

Thanks for the support everyone. I'll keep you informed. This new quad seat(for a start) should be here in a month and a half.

I noticed too there are more than a couple texans here. so a question off topic. i'm planning on moving to get away from the cold winters. a couple florida friends are pushing their gulf coast. my texas friend is pushing what he calls "the hill country." i'm beginning to explore alot of suggestions via the web, but what do you guys think of texas? i've never heard anyone say,"i'm going to texas for a vacation",'not that there's anything wrong with that'..........

[Curt Leatherbee]

Claire, you can do some Research on www.Realtor.com, (http://www.Realtor.com,) I have been looking into Texas too, I just sent you an E mail.

"Life is about how you
respond to not only the
challenges you're dealt but
the challenges you seek...If
you have no goals, no
mountains to climb, your
soul dies".~Liz Fordred

[betheny]

Claire-The hill country is wonderful.


You'd better get a big gun 'cause I'm not dead yet."
---The Bad Examples

[member412678]

Claire,
We love it where we live, in the southeast corner of the panhandle, not far from the caprock. The country is pretty, but the weather has extremes, though spring and fall are very nice. Texas is very big, and most people don't realize that where we are, we are closer to Cheyenne, Wyoming than we are to Brownsville, Tx! Texas has everything from Cypress swamps, to piney woods, to grass prairie, to desert, to the hill country you're talking about. The climate is different depending on what part of Texas you are in, but summer time is generally hot!!!

[rapid524]

Claire,

I live in the central Texas panhandle some 500 miles from the hill country, but have spent several weeks there in the spring. I agree that the summers are hot but the winters are generally mild and the spring brings beautiful wildflowers. Good luck with your search.