Has anyone here visited project walk? [Archive]

Jeff

07-23-2002, 11:36 AM

I know how you feel. I think we all do.

My personal thoughts are that unless you're significantly incomplete there would be better ways to spend that kind of money. A supported ambulation device would have many of the same benefits but could be performed at home. It would benefit your bones and muscles and could potentially unmask any learned non-use that could be partly holding you back. After that I'd say an FES bike. It's great for your legs, your joints and many other things in addition to giving you a great cardiovascular workout. A few weeks or months at PW and you might have little to show for it if you're not fairly incomplete. But these devices you could coontinue to use ongoing in preparation for a cure therapy. Then, after a cure treatment, would be an ideal time to go to PW.

I'm at least just really glad we have these forums to discuss the options. Without them we'd have a hard time knowing anything.

~See you at the SCIWire-used-to-be-paralyzed Reunion http://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/smilie/wavey.gif ~

James Kelly

07-23-2002, 11:57 AM

Hello Emi:

I just made the acquaintance of someone going to Project Walk. But he just started their program so I can't tell you his results. You might want to visit their website and see what you think. I recently emailed their staff and received the following reply:

"Project Walk treats your weakness. We attack your paralyzed body harder than any other center in the world. We fight spasms and tone until they become muscle contractions. We believe that the tone, spasms, burning, pain, etc are the body trying to send signals down to the injured part of the body. With nothing coming back to connect the signals, our method creates the return path. We teach our clients to connect the dots. It sounds simple, but it takes thousand of repetitions and the right stimulus. Each month we get better at what we do. We now have about thirty clients in the center."

If you look at their client testimonials they seem pretty pleased. Most of them had reached a plateau with normal rehab, so maybe they're on to something? I don't know, but I like their effort in trying!

Other than that, I read of an bicycle therapy used by John McDonald of U of W in St. Louis that uses e-stimulation. Supposedly it's had good results, but it's pricey too. Also, suspension treadmills might be a good idea, but they're all so damned expensive!!!

James Kelly

Carl R

07-23-2002, 12:09 PM

Emi, have you tried biofeedback? It might be something to try first (insurance might pay) and you may be able to find it locally. Although, the results that project walk are showing are impressive.

I would be headed to California as well, if I thought they could give me my hands back? I wish there were a locomotive center to retrain for hands?

foster

07-23-2002, 01:01 PM

Hi Emi we will be leaving for PW in about 3 weeks. Ryan and I visted back in April. Ryan knows that he will be walking when we leave there. My son is very incomplete I guess because as I'm writing this he is laying on the sofa with one leg up on the sofa and the other on the floor and raising it to the top of the sofa. Hes a t9 9\15\01. PW is just a amazing place to be at. Everthing that Ted told us when we were there Ryan is doing and were only there for 4 days. If you can I would go to aleast check for yourself what is going on there. Don't take my word or anybody else you have see for yourself. If you go you will be back.

Chris Chappell

07-23-2002, 02:34 PM

Emi,

Hi. I'm going to PW in Sept. for about 10 days to check it out. I also plan on reporting back to you guys what's going on.

If all goes well, meaning I believe in the program, my wife and I are considering a temporary relocation. We'll cross that bridge when we get there.

Although I don't believe that PW is offering exceptional uniqueness in terms of the type of exercises the patients are doing I do believe in their intensity and attitude towards repitition.

As far as money is concerned there are some insurance carriers that will pay for this treatment. I think what you have to do is prepare a proposal for your carrier in terms of cost/benefit, risk/reward potential. Don't assume every carrier will say "no". Ask and be prepared to back up your reasoning.

Either way I look at it as an opportunity to attempt recovery without the invasiveness of a surgical procedure. I figure that in order to walk again, I must practice walking. Sitting in this chair is not the answer. I'm going to give it a shot.

I think it's worth checking it out.

Carl, I hear ya about the hands.
Onward and Upward!

[This message was edited by Chris on Jul 23, 2002 at 04:45 PM.]

Sh0rty

07-23-2002, 03:12 PM

hey emi, yeah for sure i have been looking into this program since i first heard about. my problem is just leaving everything i have been turning that around in my head...is it worth the chance of improvement to put everything on hold again.
too bad we couldnt get something like this kicking on our side of the border.
i always wanted to go to cali, want a roomate? http://sci.rutgers.edu/forum/images/smilies/cool.gif

SCI PILOT

07-23-2002, 04:10 PM

EMI

Dr. Dan McGowan talks about a program in Edmonton that has treadmill work for SCI that uses a harness to hold you up. The Foothills in Calgary also has a harness for walking it is on a track so you actually go the length of the gym and back. The clinic in Edmonton is on a treadmill.

Have you already tried this? I guess it takes 3 people, 2 to move your legs and one to monitor the situation. Let me know if you want me to get ahold of Dan for more info. I think this would be a good start to see if you inprove any.

jim

Tara

07-23-2002, 04:56 PM

Jim,
I would be interested about any info you could get from Dan. How much does it cost and how long would he take someone for? etc....

chastev8

07-23-2002, 05:17 PM

Since you will have to pay for everything, I think the best thing to do is to maximize everything you can at home. I have been hitting the pool and working out there two or three hours a day. I will buy a bicycle simular to the ones they use at PW--the large part of their training involves these bikes. From speaking with them the seem to concentrait on locking your knees. I think these bikes play a part in that. I have found these bikes at Schwinn but they are 900. I also found one that looks exactly the same at: http://www.nellies.com/progo.shtml for less than half the price. I was planning on going this summer but I dont feel that I have reached the point that I can benifit yet. I do not want to spend 2000 a month doing workouts that I can do at home. Once I believe I have reached platue, then I will get it to PW to extend my work outs untill I am walking http://sci.rutgers.edu/forum/images/smilies/smile.gif

MADPRODUCER

07-23-2002, 06:55 PM

Emi don't .......... Before you do anything read my thread i started at new mobility.com The topic reads what's everyone intake on project walk? Foster is a fake.... He is ted..... trust me... They wouldn't take up my offer...

http://newmobility.com/ubbcgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=005141

Maceyka

07-23-2002, 07:09 PM

You convinced me...it's all a scam! With all that scientific evidence and the due diligence you put forth, I finally see the light! Keep your gossip at the New Mobility site where it belongs!

Maceyka

cpaul

07-23-2002, 07:36 PM

I'm planning a day visit w/ PW next month. After Talking with Ted via email,I don't think they are doing anything different than I am already doing myself. I am interested to see how they are using these therapies. Maybe they are doing the same modalities but in a slightly different manner. I'll let you all know.

Chris

chastev8

07-23-2002, 07:47 PM

When I spoke with them the said the get you standing up right away. I responded, "oh, with braces" they said, "no braces." "Parallel Bars?" they said no parallel bars. WHAT?? The only way I can see that they would do that is to have someone push on each knee. That, in fact, one area they told me they work on is torso balance and strenthening.
Much of their training on the mat would seem to fall under the same catagory as bio-feedback.

Where is the CURE section at the New Mobility. That site seems to be run by the same therapist who told me "dont worry about walking, just accept it and learn to live with it"

vgrafen

07-23-2002, 08:46 PM

Chris, correct me if I'm mistaken, but aren't you complete? PW doesn't work with completes, do they? I read several places on their site, 'incompletes only.' What's your thinking?

By the way, I'm pretty sold on the LiteGait system; simple and direct, up ya go! I'm in it 3x a week, 15 minutes last Thursday, and then today. Only takes 2 therapists to keep order over my legs, and I get a great workout while -hopefully- stirring the seeds to kick something into gear.

vgrafen

dahliasinbloom

07-23-2002, 09:00 PM

what are the credentials of the "therapists" working at Project Walk? What is their experience working with SCI patients?

Snowman

07-23-2002, 09:14 PM

So since no one on New Mobility will listen to your ranting your going to bring it over here to a board devoted to civilized and intellectual discussions about possible cures and new therapies. Sad.

I really hope Foster and his son never meet you in person... it could get real ugly.

To all others

Here is a list of our most recent visitors and their email addresses:

Fred Nader, frnad@aol.com
Fred's daughter, Erica, C6, started the program on June 17. They are from Michigan.

Roni Taylor, ronijan@hotmail.com
Roni's son, Cas, C4/5 is currently visiting from Texas.

Foster Ashman, fsrca@hotmail.com
Roster's son, Ryan, T7, will start as soon as they can make financial arrangements for Ryan to come out from Philadelphia

Able Dominguez came from Texas to observe our program and is now bringing his daughter, Laura C6, for a trial workout visit. Laura2738@aol.com

Brent Key is a T12 also from Texas. Check out his website HERE (http://www.georgetownflying.com/brent) you'll find some pictures of him at our new facility.

Thank you for your interest in Project Walk and I hope to see a lot of you soon.

Eric Harness,CSCS
Project Walk (http://www.projectwalk.org)

cpaul

07-23-2002, 09:31 PM

Well as far as being complete.....yes at one time I suppose I was. Since the very beginning of my ordeal 22 months ago I have been busting butt with a lot of different things. I started out a complete ASIA "A"
Now things are different, I have some voluntary movement and feeling in my right leg and toes. I hate ASIA. Maybe ASIA would still consider me complete. I don't know and I don't care. It's an inadequate testing method. In any event PW didn't express their concern to me about "complete vs. incomplete" maybe because I shared with them all I've been doing thus far. We'll see!

vgrafen

07-23-2002, 11:27 PM

I was addressing the moderator, Chris, he of the spoked wheel. Did I miss something, or...?

vgrafen

Chris Chappell

07-24-2002, 11:58 AM

Vgraf, Sorry for the delay in response.

My injury is C6-7. I am sensory incomplete, motor complete. Basically, I can feel touch, hot/cold on my feet and have general light touch sensation up to my knees. Above my knees (top of quads) I have spotty sensation. Also light touch in my abdomen. Probably more than you want to know but I also have genital and sacral sensation. What's weird is that my butt and the back of my legs from hips to heels I have better sensation (hence the burning) than the fronts or sides of my legs.

Motor wise I'd say I'm complete. I can move a toe or two but nothing to write home about.

What I'm hopeful for and excited about is the plasticity capacity of the spinal cord. You know this already but I don't think many understand the concept of plasticity and what potential it may unlock. And the reason I think that many don't understand it is that we're conditioned, not unlike rats, to sit all the time and not use our limbs enough. No wonder our bodies function through learned non-use. What choice does it have? And I don't believe that even the best run "model center" sci hospitals and rehab centers utilize PT correctly. Does your pt know about plasticity? Mine, I can assure you, do not. They're just preachin the same stuff. Why? money, personnel and equipment issues. It takes a big commitment on the part of a hospital or rehab center to take on a "complete" injury. And for how long will they carry someone without seeing improvement / results?

What PW is doing, imo so far, is nothing new in terms of advanced pt concepts. The difference, I think, is in the intensity and more importantly the time/ repetition that they commit.

If you've or anyone read the entire site they clearly state that you probably will not see real results for at least six months. How many facilities would commit six months to my rehab? None that I have found. Even with enough money and insurance even the best sci hospitals (Craig) can't devote the manpower or equipment necessary.

Like you and probably many others I have and can get or make the same equipment that they're probably using at PW. But if I'm honest with myself I have come to the conclusion that I'm not going to work out 5hrs a day 5 days a week for two years. Now, is that worth $2000 or $3,000 a month? I don't know. However I think its worth a shot before someone opens up my back and...?

What's the downside? I learn, get in as good a shape as possible while waiting for medical science to catch up. And for $70,000 I think its relatively cheap for the potential opportunity to walk again.

I'm a realist. Nothing in my life has been easy. Why would I even begin to think that the road to sci recovery won't be the steepest and deepest challenge I've ever faced. I only know hard work will achieve results in some way, shape or form.

And for anyone else I will just offer that if you read Lance Armstrong's "Its Not About The Bike" you may have a better understanding of my approach to this problem. Out work everybody.

Peace.

Onward and Upward!

vgrafen

07-24-2002, 12:49 PM

Chris, sounds like you're an ideal condidate for PW: motivated and prepared, body and mind. However, if you've got some toe movement, you IS motor incomplete, man, and that's good, and I'm envious, and you stand a damn good chance of employing spinal plasticity to regain some function. Go get 'em, boy, and please report what happens, good and bad.

You also raise a good point about rehab clinics and how long they'll be willing to hang in there with completes. I am the only complete in Nor Cal doing any treadmill walking, that I have encountered, I should add, and from what Davis, Enloe and Santa Clara tell me. Why? 'Cause nobody believes it'll do any good; clearly the word isn't out, so nobody asks for it and nobody prescribes it. I am anticipating the day when my PT says, 'v, we're not getting anywhere here, medi-care won't continue paying, and I'm not sure we're getting positive results, it's time to cut you off.' I hope toi god I have something tangible by then to show, but I may not, so I'll have to have something going at home, maybe FES. Still, it's a crapshoot and yeah, maybe it ain't fair, but it's the only game in town, and I'm in.

vgrafen

Chris Chappell

07-24-2002, 01:33 PM

Vgraf, Thanks.

And I think from your post below and from your thread about your recovery you have pinpointed the problem. Belief, or the lack of it from most of the sci community. And attitude towards recovery.

Hope and hard work.

I wonder why more (this community not withstanding) are not inspired to pursue these paths?

Onward and Upward!

Carl R

07-24-2002, 02:35 PM

Chris, why do you consider yourself motor complete? If you can move a toe, then there has to be some existing connections left and what you describe sounds very incomplete to me. I would be willing to bet that with the kind of function you describe, you will be at least standing on your own in a few months after intense therapy.

celtic

07-24-2002, 03:15 PM

I see little reason to doubt that treadmill training would benefit some people, I went on a 3 month course 8 years that employed the Dikoul methods and learnt quite a lot. I knew before I went that I had muscles below the level of the break (c5/6) as I could feel pulsing when I tried to move them,the therapists there seemed to know where these muscles were and worked on them accordingly. This differed from the therapy I received after my injury in rehab because there they only worked on muscles they knew I had eg:shoulders biceps. The biggest improvement I got from the course was to my stomach muscles which went from a 28kg assisted sit up down to 4kg when I left.One of the other things that happened was that I could make my legs raise when I induced spasm and I also had a degree of control in that I could lift either my left or right leg on command (or both) but no control over how high they would lift, this is why I find projectwalks work interesting.
The downside for me was that as the muscles strenghened so did the spasm and when I got home it was hard to find people to help with these exercises and gradually my workrate tailed off though I often wonder where I would be today had I been able to continue. If you have the time and the means these kind of exercises can pay dividends though I speak as somebody with an incomplete injury.

Chris Chappell

07-24-2002, 03:26 PM

Carl, thanks.

You and Vgraf may be right in terms of incomplete but personally unless I'm able to voluntarily lift a leg, bend an ankle or bring my knees together the innervation to the muscles that require walking are, at this time, complete. Hopefully with therapy this will change.

I wish there was such a place/therapy like PW for my hands though. Is anything more frustrating than quad hands?

Onward and Upward!

etexley

07-24-2002, 03:52 PM

Has anybody tried this???

http://www.spinabifida-online.com/etreatment01.htm

Eric Texley

blue

07-24-2002, 04:24 PM

I find all this fascinating, but I have a question. For a lower level quad, say c-5 to c7, don't you use your hands as much as possible already? I mean in everyday life, don't you use what you can of your hands, thumb, and fingers? I'm asking because while I can understand the concept of 'learned non-use' regarding legs, I wonder how this claim could be made to the upper extremities? I mean, you'll do everything your hands and fingers can provide so how can they have 'learned' to not be used?

If you have the time and money I agree that the worst that will happen is that you may be healthier from the exercise. I think most people bristle at this concept because of the implication that if they'd have worked harder, they wouldn't still be in a wheelchair. We all know what bullsh*t that is. If sheer will and determination could make someone walk after SCI, Chris Reeve and Mike Utley would be dancing circles around their doctors by now. But it's surprising how much of the AB world believes it.

celtic

07-24-2002, 05:11 PM

I think the same rules apply to your hands as the rest of your body, you tend to work around the deficiencies, I know I do and you do it unconciously. As I`m typing just now I`m not trying to use my fingers properly, I`m working around it. I remember when I left hospital they told me I could have a tendon transfer and I`m so glad that I never went ahead with it because I can manage most things with my hands the way they are using wrist flexion.

James Kelly

07-24-2002, 06:05 PM

Tara,

I'm sorry I missed your request. Sometimes I'm a little sporatic in my visits to Care/Cure. I just visited the New Mobility link to their Project Walk discussion, and it appears that Project Walk cost $2,000 a month and they like to train you if possible for a year. Or at least that's the impression I got from their self-description. I can give you Ted's email address if you like. Also, if you ever post me a question or a comment that I don't respond to, please email me at olddrooler@hcnews.com and I'll get right back to you.

James Kelly

Carl R

07-24-2002, 09:37 PM

Celtic, from my understanding you can actually retrain the locomotive center in the spinal cord to be able to walk and that it does not necessarily require signals from the brain. Hand function, I believe will require signals from the brain and some sort of regeneration across the injury site to communicate with the hand and fingers for it to work.

I believe this is correct. . . Maybe someone else or Dr. Young can confirm.

vl_gyurov

07-25-2002, 10:17 AM

Eric is this your email: etexley@yahoo.com ?

If so please check it .
Thank You.
Bye

www.vladi-g.hit.bg (http://www.vladi-g.hit.bg)

foster

07-27-2002, 03:33 PM

Here is a web site of Cas Taylor that has alot of pictures on it of PW and the exercises that they do there. http://groups.msn.com/caswelltaylor/pictures

Jeff

07-27-2002, 05:58 PM

incomplete enough to benefit from PW?

I can move all ten toes and my right foot slightly. This occurred about a year after injury. I also got back some finger extension, functional use of chest muscles and non-functional use of some lower back muscles by the one year mark. I don't think, however, I'm in any way incomplete enough to make very many gains from rehab like they have at PW. Only some Asia C's but all Asia D's are the ones to benefit, IMO.

~See you at the SCIWire-used-to-be-paralyzed Reunion http://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/smilie/wavey.gif ~

Chris Chappell

07-28-2002, 11:12 AM

Jeff, if many think I'm incomplete enough to benefit from it then from what you've described you can possibly as well.

Don't talk yourself out of it. You owe it to yourself to really check it out.

Onward and Upward!

Chris Chappell

07-28-2002, 11:18 AM

Foster, I checked out the link you provided and was able to pull a few photos of pool therapy, standing frame, manual wheelchair, etc.

But please explain what I'm missing or not seeing?

You mentioned exercises from PW?

Is there an additional link? http://sci.rutgers.edu/forum/images/smilies/confused.gif

Thanks.

Onward and Upward!

Maceyka

07-28-2002, 11:32 AM

Click on "pictures of Cas", then use the drop down box at the top left corner of the page to go to other pages.

Maceyka

Chris Chappell

07-28-2002, 11:51 AM

Maceyka, thanks.

Fai, pages 5,6 are the most helpful.

Onward and Upward!

Jeff

07-28-2002, 01:15 PM

Chris - Thank you for the encouragement. I've spent years trying to use my muscles better. I practice moving my toes everyday. If I had been moving my toes 24 hrs after injury that probably would have indicated a lot more incompleteness. A CT Scan revealed a large lesion on my cord and the docs were very surprised by the residual movement I did finally end up with.

My money is on a regenerative and remylenative therapy. Excluding insurance I've only got one shot. And I've got to make it count. For all us Asia B's and those of us who squeak into Asia C, I think buying equipment for home use is a much better investment.

YMMV.

~See you at the SCIWire-used-to-be-paralyzed Reunion http://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/smilie/wavey.gif ~

foster

07-28-2002, 05:03 PM

Chris there are like 70 pictures on there the pictures of pw are at the end on pages 5 and 6.

scaligirl

07-28-2002, 09:25 PM

Originally posted by Jan:

what are the credentials of the "therapists" working at Project Walk? What is their experience working with SCI patients?

This is from the PW website....

The one thing you notice about our staff is that nobody has an occupational background. Nobody is a physical therapist and nobody has a medical degree. Why? Because all we do is exercise; we are performance specialists. .

Basically, its a VERY expensive gym! That's my opinion of it. Just because I don't agree 100% with their program, doesn't mean that I don't think some people may benefit from them. I wish all those that are going the best.

Snowman

07-29-2002, 09:03 PM

Some of our credentials

Eric Harness: Bachelor of Science Kinesiology, Certified Strength and Conditioning Specialist (this is a post-graduate certification)

Tom Mitev: Bachelor of Science Kinesiology

Susan Sale: Master's Degree Exercise Science

Heather Graham: Bachelor of Science Nutrition

Ted Dardzinski: Exercise Physiologist

Ted and I (Eric) have been working with SCI's for approximately 3 years.

Please do not comment on what we do or what our program is about until you come in and see for yourself.

Eric Harness,CSCS
Project Walk (http://www.projectwalk.org)

Carl R

07-30-2002, 11:42 AM

Snowman, I believe you guys focus on walking. I m curious though if anybody has been able to regain hand or finger function through any of the therapies that you do?

Snowman

07-31-2002, 12:30 AM

Although our program does focus on walking, we also focus on the body as a whole. In order for someone to walk unassisted they must have control of the trunk musculature. This includes the abdominal, low back, and upper torso muscles. Through the exercises we use to regain these muscles many of our clients have had some hand and finger mobility and strength return. A few of them have one hand which is almost fully functional and the other is 40-50%. We also try to work with some of our clients' hands that are extremely contracted if that is one of their goals. It is up to the client to establish the goals of his or her program, if they wish to spend some time working on their hands we will do that.

Eric Harness,CSCS
Project Walk (http://www.projectwalk.org)

Chris Chappell

07-31-2002, 12:28 PM

Eric, A few questions.

What type of assessment does your staff do for a new / potential candidate for qualification or inclusion in your program? (sensation testing?, motor testing? strength testing?, Is there a series of tests you guys do?) How "incomplete" does someone have to be?

How many therapists work with each client? Do you all have specialities?

I've read about the amazing success stories, congratulations. But how many patients have not gotten recovery? Or are you seeing various degrees of recovery? How many have actually re-learned to walk? And with how much assistance?

How many have quit?

Do you also provide nutritional advice?

A couple of different kinds of questions. Please don't be alarmed, I'm just trying to learn more.

What do you guys do if someone (patient) passes out?

Has a medical issue?

Has an "accident" (bowel/bladder)?

Hurts themselves? (twists an ankle)

Thanks.

Onward and Upward!

Rustyjames

07-31-2002, 02:24 PM

Sorry, but when someone uses the name, "Snowman" to sell something, the first thing I think of is Snowjob.

cindyg

07-31-2002, 06:16 PM

The goals of Project Walk sound like those of the Walker Institute of the 80's. Personally, I appreciated and benefited from Walker's intense therapy without any promises, but I was later informed that Walker was shut down due to false promises? That left a thick cloud of doubt over some SCI in regards to 'out of the norm' therapy.

Based on my positive Walker experience I think Project Walk sounds promising for newer injuries, and would love to try it out myself. But I wonder if at this late stage with the money dwindling and traveling being more strenuous, if it could even be worth checking out foir myself.

Out of curiosity, are there any Walker/Project comparisons available here?

alan

07-31-2002, 07:21 PM

My time at Walker was the best time of my life post-SCI. Unfortunately, despite alll the work done by them and me, they (like everyone since) were unable to reduce or relieve my pains, which were then and still are my biggest problem (quadriplegia is number two.) I left there in 1985 the strongest and heaviest I've been since the accident (nowhere close to that now in either category), but in more pain than when I got there (not their fault - that's how my pain syndrome has worked, continually increasing with time. At that point, I could still exercise, ate fairly well, and could get out most days. Ah, the better old days.) I enjoyed Los Angeles. Fancy cars, fancy people, good looking women.

Anyone remember the exercise place below Walker when it was located on Westwood (if I recall correctly) Blvd.?

cindyg

07-31-2002, 07:40 PM

Alan all I think I remember was the name of the building, or something, was called the Matrix. My mom doesn't remember either. I was in Westwood Aug '85 - Jan '86. When were you there?

Snowman

07-31-2002, 09:47 PM

First, ever since I first started using the internet my handle has always been "Snowman"...this is due to the fact that I love to Snowboard.

On to more pertenent issues:

1) We currently have several clients who have been diagnosed as complete by their physicians. We are still in the trial stages of how our program works with each type of injury. As we gather more data, we hope to be able to publish our results within the next year.

2) You may have one trainer for the entire session or 3, it all depends on what clients are coming in that day and how much staff we have. Ted and I work with the more advanced clients when they come in. We all work around the same guidelines, so no one really has a specialty.

3) Our first 2 clients are the only ones to have completed 2 or more years with our program. They can both walk without assistance. Our 3rd and 4th clients need assistance to walk, one needs someones hands on his hips, the other needs a person under each arm.
Everyone of our clients has gotten a significant amount of function back since arriving at PW. I do not believe you will find anyone who can say they have gotten nothing out of it.

4) We do provide nutritional advice upon request or if we believe someone may not be eating properly, we may make a suggestion to that person about what they need to do.

5) Passing-out: It has happened due to blood pressure issues. However, we have never had someone go completely out on us, in every incident the person has realized what is happening and we lay them down to equalize pressure.

6) Medical issues: Not quite sure what type of medical issues you are asking about.

7) Accident: If clients are not able to take care of themselves we do require that a caregiver be available to that person. We have a shower and 2 bathrooms on the premises for such problems. All equipment is sanitized that may have come in contact.

8) Hurts themselves: If severe enough we will transport to the hospital or call an ambulance. All of our personnel are trained in CPR and First Aid. Minor problems such as cuts and abrasions are treated on site.

Other than this forum I have never heard of the Walker Institute, so I cannot provide any comparisons.

Eric Harness,CSCS
Project Walk (http://www.projectwalk.org)

Chris Chappell

08-01-2002, 08:46 PM

Check this out.

I've told you guys about going to visit PW in Sept to check it out and determine whether or not a commitment of two years is feasible.

Well today I got an e-mail from Ted Dardzinski (head honcho) which essentially says "sorry, we're full, can't help you"

That's great for Ted, Eric and the rest of PW BUT I made a point in communicating OVER SIX MONTHS AGO personally with Ted and on this Forum with Eric. At that time they're calendar wasn't full "sure, no problem, you can workout for the week". I even offered to pay in advance.

Obviously our daytimers weren't in sync. Now there's no room at the Inn.

So much for the relocation consideration and the $70k.

I'm beginning to wonder the same thing, "snow job?"

Very unprofessional. http://sci.rutgers.edu/forum/images/smilies/mad.gif

Onward and Upward!

Snowman

08-01-2002, 09:11 PM

I just talked to Ted. We unfortunately are not able to have you come in that particular week Aug 31-Sept 8, because Ted and Tammy are going to be on vacation. Neither one of them have taken a vacation to together in over 2 years. So for that entire week we will be short handed by 2 trainers. Six months ago we had less than 10 clients, we now have 30. Six months ago coming in at anytime was not a problem. Now, we are only accepting 2 new visitors, who want to workout, per week. We have hired new people on, but it takes a while to train them to do our protocols. I would like to work with you, but I do have a commitment to our current clients. You are more than welcome to come in the following week, as we will be fully staffed.

Ted told me that you had not communicated the date you were coming in until just recently.

I apologize for the mix up and hope you will reconsider.

Eric Harness,CSCS
Project Walk (http://www.projectwalk.org)

MADPRODUCER

08-01-2002, 10:56 PM

Originally posted by Chris:

Check this out.

I've told you guys about going to visit PW in Sept to check it out and determine whether or not a commitment of two years is feasible.

Well today I got an e-mail from Ted Dardzinski (head honcho) which essentially says "sorry, we're full, can't help you"

That's great for Ted, Eric and the rest of PW BUT I made a point in communicating OVER SIX MONTHS AGO personally with Ted and on this Forum with Eric. At that time they're calendar wasn't full "sure, no problem, you can workout for the week". I even offered to pay in advance.

Obviously our daytimers weren't in sync. Now there's no room at the Inn.

So much for the relocation consideration and the $70k.

I'm beginning to wonder the same thing, "snow job?"

Very unprofessional. http://sci.rutgers.edu/forum/images/smilies/mad.gif

Onward and Upward! Exactly, Very much so unprofessional. The deal is, they know you will be reporting to us the carecure soldiers, about your progress, which wouldn't be shit, which you could do at home... So thats why they didn't accept you, they are saying to one another...WHY, bring him into our sucka program , and mess up our other 30 customers thats fo show suckas. ( if they got that many) So they said again lets just keep it in the real world. Im not saying carecure is the realword but understand me....... Now ask yourself how long have you been communicating with them.. They done accepted probably 2 or 3 more suckas in the past month......More to come...... Who ever don't like my opinion fuck you.........That's go's for you to project shit.... Im still waiting on my deal that i offered you punks...
SUCKA - FREE
Im still the http://sci.rutgers.edu/forum/images/smilies/cool.gif

MADPRODUCER

08-01-2002, 11:01 PM

Originally posted by Snowman:

So since no one on New Mobility will listen to your ranting your going to bring it over here to a board devoted to civilized and intellectual discussions about possible cures and new therapies. Sad.

I really hope Foster and his son never meet you in person... it could get real ugly.

_To all others_

Here is a list of our most recent visitors and their email addresses:

Fred Nader, frnad@aol.com
Fred's daughter, Erica, C6, started the program on June 17. They are from Michigan.

Roni Taylor, ronijan@hotmail.com
Roni's son, Cas, C4/5 is currently visiting from Texas.

Foster Ashman, fsrca@hotmail.com
Roster's son, Ryan, T7, will start as soon as they can make financial arrangements for Ryan to come out from Philadelphia

Able Dominguez came from Texas to observe our program and is now bringing his daughter, Laura C6, for a trial workout visit. Laura2738@aol.com

Brent Key is a T12 also from Texas. Check out his website http://www.georgetownflying.com/brent you'll find some pictures of him at our new facility.

Thank you for your interest in Project Walk and I hope to see a lot of you soon.

Eric Harness,CSCS
http://www.projectwalk.org
Ain't a goddamn thang gone get ugly....... Tell pj shit just to please reply back or pppppppppppppllllllleeeeeeeaaaaaassssseeeeeee give me some feedback on why they didn't take me up on my offer..

feedback please pj fags http://sci.rutgers.edu/forum/images/smilies/wink.gif

MADPRODUCER

08-01-2002, 11:04 PM

Originally posted by Maceyka:

You convinced me...it's all a scam! With all that scientific evidence and the due diligence you put forth, I finally see the light! Keep your gossip at the New Mobility site where it belongs!

Maceyka you're not a dipshit, i applaud you.... you're sucka free.
two thumbs up......

gossip???????? http://sci.rutgers.edu/forum/images/smilies/eek.gif

Maceyka

08-02-2002, 10:37 AM

Hey, Dumbass! It's called sarcasm! Why the hell would they want a CHUMP, like yourself, there anyway!?

I don't specifically know about how effective PW really is but the science is there that supports the therapies they're using!

Maceyka

[This message was edited by Maceyka on Aug 02, 2002 at 06:22 PM.]

Chris Chappell

08-02-2002, 12:05 PM

Eric,

I e-mailed you and Ted personally. Based upon your response below and the personal e-mail you sent me you indicated that the week of Sept 9th-13th is open? Correct?

If that's the case I'll be there on the 9th.

Please confirm.

Thanks,

Chris

Onward and Upward!

Snowman

08-02-2002, 06:51 PM

http://sci.rutgers.edu/forum/images/smilies/biggrin.gif That week is open. Hope to see you then. http://sci.rutgers.edu/forum/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

Eric Harness,CSCS
Project Walk (http://www.projectwalk.org)

MADPRODUCER

08-04-2002, 12:56 AM

Originally posted by Maceyka:

Hey, Dumbass! It's called sarcasm! Why the hell would they want a CHUMP, like yourself, there anyway!?

I don't specifically know about how effective PW really is but the science is there that supports the therapies they're using!

Maceyka

[This message was edited by Maceyka on Aug 02, 2002 at 06:22 PM.]
I mistake you i guess you are a sucka...They would love to have a handsome
guy like me.... I'll be the main attraction @ pj shit...
That's why dumbas............ http://sci.rutgers.edu/forum/images/smilies/tongue.gif

MADPRODUCER

08-04-2002, 12:58 AM

Originally posted by MAD-PRODUCER:

Originally posted by Snowman:
So since no one on New Mobility will listen to your ranting your going to bring it over here to a board devoted to civilized and intellectual discussions about possible cures and new therapies. Sad.

I really hope Foster and his son never meet you in person... it could get real ugly.

_To all others_

Here is a list of our most recent visitors and their email addresses:

Fred Nader, frnad@aol.com
Fred's daughter, Erica, C6, started the program on June 17. They are from Michigan.

Roni Taylor, ronijan@hotmail.com
Roni's son, Cas, C4/5 is currently visiting from Texas.

Foster Ashman, fsrca@hotmail.com
Roster's son, Ryan, T7, will start as soon as they can make financial arrangements for Ryan to come out from Philadelphia

Able Dominguez came from Texas to observe our program and is now bringing his daughter, Laura C6, for a trial workout visit. Laura2738@aol.com

Brent Key is a T12 also from Texas. Check out his website http://www.georgetownflying.com/brent you'll find some pictures of him at our new facility.

Thank you for your interest in Project Walk and I hope to see a lot of you soon.

Eric Harness,CSCS
http://www.projectwalk.org
Ain't a goddamn thang gone get ugly....... Tell pj shit just to please reply back or pppppppppppppllllllleeeeeeeaaaaaassssseeeeeee give me some feedback on why they didn't take me up on my offer..

feedback please pj fags http://sci.rutgers.edu/forum/images/smilies/wink.gifi email all them never got any replies, dick face....

antiquity

08-04-2002, 01:25 AM

Guys, please respect the rules of etiquette for this site and refrain from name calling.

http://carecure.rutgers.edu/spinewire/Messages/ForumRules.html

Thank you. http://sci.rutgers.edu/forum/images/smilies/smile.gif

cheesecake

08-04-2002, 08:35 AM

I just referred someone to ths specific thread. Now I wish I hadn't due to the mud slinging, profanity, etc. Please realize that these posts and Forums are used as a referral site to newly injured and their families. Try to be respectful. The numbers for the community are growing because this is an excellent site. If you want to disagree, fine, if you want to get nasty, do it elsewhere!

"Don't worry about the world coming to an end today.
It's already tomorrow in Australia!"----- Charles Schultz

Sue Pendleton

08-04-2002, 07:21 PM

Mad, you're upset (if I read your NM thread and here correctly) that complete strangers did not answer emails from you about their experiences with Project Walk? Grow up! I have a queue of over 300 emails on any given day. The minute I say a word about 4-AP I can expect 50 the next day on that topic alone. If I point them here and explain the search function to them I will get about 5 emails back telling me I'm a selfish **^%. If all I ever did was answer 4-AP questions I'd never get anything else done. I also have nothing new to report about it that is not already on this website somewhere. If you want to learn about Project Walk why not write them, on paper, and ask for information on their company. Next call the nearest Better Business Bureau to them and ask if there have been any complaints. Expecting private citizens to tell you anything is something to be thankful for if it happens. If it doesn't, well, hop in your new car and head west and go check it out yourself.

As Cheesecake and Seneca pointed out, further profanity will not be tolerated unless it adds a significant amount of context to your postings.

Sue P

PS....If anyone does need or want further information on 4-AP I am more than happy to explain the search function to any and all comers. And I still get calls based on a 1997 letter I wrote to the FDA from several different countries and do my best to answer all questions I know the answers to and refer ones I can't to Acorda or other appropriate sources. Please do not call collect! http://sci.rutgers.edu/forum/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

MADPRODUCER

08-04-2002, 11:46 PM

ok, be jackasses... Im not mad at all, im just trying to save you dumbasses from getting burnt..... Grow up? Trust me i am.... Im giving yall facts but thats yall.... Now please back up off me while i put my cup downnnn.
peace

08-05-2002, 12:52 PM

Mad,
Why don't you just go crawl back under the rock you came from. Nobody here is interested in listening to what you have to say. Nothing that is remotely intelligent has been posted by you yet, all you seem to know how to do is use profanity and put people down. Maybe you feel that talking the way you do makes you appear cool and impressive and whatever else you think you are, but you're just showinng us that you're about the biggest loser that's ever come to this forum. Grow up!

antiquity

08-05-2002, 02:20 PM

Originally posted by JC:

... but you're just showinng us that you're about the biggest loser that's ever come to this forum. Grow up!

Guys, the etiquette rules apply to EVERYONE. Let's stop the bashing and bring the discussion back to the original topic.

Thank you. http://sci.rutgers.edu/forum/images/smilies/smile.gif

MADPRODUCER

08-05-2002, 10:37 PM

Originally posted by JC:

Mad,
Why don't you just go crawl back under the rock you came from. Nobody here is interested in listening to what you have to say. Nothing that is remotely intelligent has been posted by you yet, all you seem to know how to do is use profanity and put people down. Maybe you feel that talking the way you do makes you appear cool and impressive and whatever else you think you are, but you're just showinng us that you're about the biggest loser that's ever come to this forum. Grow up!I rolled proud everday, unlike you.. I just keep my eyes open. ok? Trust me im far from being a loser..Peace you little sensitive ****..

MADPRODUCER

08-05-2002, 10:38 PM

Originally posted by seneca:

Originally posted by JC:
... but you're just showinng us that you're about the biggest loser that's ever come to this forum. Grow up!

Guys, the etiquette rules apply to EVERYONE. Let's stop the bashing and bring the discussion back to the original topic.

Thank you. http://sci.rutgers.edu/forum/images/smilies/smile.gifNo Prob

Donny247

08-06-2002, 03:01 PM

I saw your pic and I thought to myself: Where have I seen him before? Then it came to me; Steve Urkell without the glasses! How are things going with the career, Steve?

Sue Pendleton

08-06-2002, 09:14 PM

I think you're a bit off there Donny. A friend of mine insists there are no geeks in the Parishes of LA. I believe Mad is just trying to ferret out whether Project Walk is another scam like Neuralyn was. But as with everything new it's a hard call to make especially since most of us who have done PT over the long term know exercise continues to help long past that supposed 2 year cut off.

Unfortunantly, like with neuralyn, we know that so far few people have gone out there. So it wouldn't take much for a person to fake a few email addresses and respond to questios as 10 or 12 different people. I'm not saying this is happening. But it could and so buyers beware. IMHO it doesn't take 5 years of school to help create and maintain an exercise program for an individual with a SCI. Look at all the techs the rehab hospitals have us work with. How often do you see the PT that the tech is working under right there? So, be aware but be open minded. And check up where you can. Like with neuralyn you can now call several states attorneys generals and get the rotten scoop on the devils who ran that con.