big belly needs to go

[rybread]

help! i do cardio. use manualchair all day, and even do laps in mall with it. i barely eat nmore than o0nce a day. just not hungry. but belly still gro0ws. dont know what else to do. it throws big dent on self esteem. c5-6 co0mplete


oh yeah. last 2 questions from friend. he hasnt read replys yet

[This message was edited by rybread on August 05, 2001 at 08:51 PM.]

[Cris]

its the curse of the quad. no trunk muscles, gravity, sitting. don't think theres anything you can do about it. http://sci.rutgers.edu/forum/images/smilies/frown.gif

[rybread]

yeah, but i'm still alot bigger than my quad buddies

[SCI-Nurse]

rybread - Cris said it best in very few words. I won't elaborate other than to concur....almost every SCI complains about their "balloon belly", etc. This topic has had considerable discussion on the Spinewire SpinalNurse Forum. Some people have used abdominal binders. However, you need to be certain that you don't create a pressure area and would likely need to have help putting it on if a higher level injury. CRF

Just read your last post. Are you particularly thin? What is your natural body build? Are you short-waisted? It may be a matter of perception..if you are short or particularly thin, the abdominal protruding will seem to be more pronounced. When a former patient of mine broke her leg and needed extensive surgery and bone grafting, she thought her knee and upper leg looked large and terrible. As we talked about this, she began to realize that when she looked at her leg in a mirror that it did not look as bad as when she looked straight down on her leg. CRF

[ladi]

I am trying a electro stimulation machine, have you tried one?

[Scorpion]

Also, part of it might be how you're sitting. I've often heard, "Where's your quad gut?" It's there, just not a prominent as many quads, and I think part of it is I cannot stand to be slouching. It can't be good for your back and pelvis, and it pushes out your gut too. I know many quads who sit with their butt so far out in the chair, they can't help but look like slobs. I know part of it has to do with comfort level, so I don't want to slag anybody, but it really does help my perspective on the world when I'm positioned comfortably in my chair. I drove the nurses nuts when getting out of bed at rehab, because I couldn't stand it if I was sitting crooked or my clothes were all bunched up, etc. I love nurses and the great work they do, but sometimes they let their hectic morning schedule get the best of them. http://sci.rutgers.edu/forum/images/smilies/smile.gif Sorry, I got off track there.

BTW, FES might help, I'm not sure, as I'm just starting it myself. But, it makes sense that if the muscles are worked regulsrly, they'll have a little more tone, and lack of tone is exactly where the quad gut comes from. Maybe the spasticity I have helps keep some tone in my abs, keeping the quad gut smaller than some.

~Rus

[stephen212]

I hate it too! I've been lifting weights for my entire adult life (pre- and post-injury) and from the chest up I've got a gymnast's (retired) body. But the belly!

I recently bought an EMS machine that has the so-called "Russian" stim wave for deeper muscle penetration. With the absence of sensation below the nipple line I can juice the machine to a level that would have most ABs begging for mercy and I am able to get a very intense contraction. Unfortunately, I've yet to see any results away from the machine.

The appearance of parabelly is compounded by two things beyond simple weakened/paralyzed abs:

1) The inability to sit up straight -- I'm talking military school posture -- due to non-functioning low back extensor muscles causes a functional collapsing of the lumbar, and this shortens the trunk. The shortened trunk serves to exagerate the slackened abdominals.

2) Wheelchair seating position is typically set up in a reclined position to compensate for the lack of trunk balance. The wheelchair user brings his/her shoulders forward to compensate. This too serves to shorten the length of the spine further exagerating a toneless gut.

I have worn abdominal binders on and off over the years and I do like the support they provide. They are, however, not inexpensive and after a month or so they need replacing.

[Sue Pendleton]

I have my very first cruise coming up the end of September and I am not going looking like a blob. So it's back to counting calories and stopping very short of what I burn, wearing tummy control undies (thank the Goddess for spandex!)and pulling out my FES unit and setting it to fry. They can figure a way to use botox for wrinkles, they can figure out a way to stop quad gut. I know there are netting type materials used to hold hernias in while they heal so why not something like that for quads? I mean just secure it from the insertion points of the ileopsoases at each bottom corner and the top of the obliques. I mean really, if models can have a rib removed to get a tinier waist why can't we have a fix for this unsightly, ungainly and really hard to find nice clothes to cover THING?!?!

[Shaun]

I've tried everything.I work out on an uppertone three hours aday,i live in a small town no pavement i push through rocks and gravel all day long,i eat sensibly lots of greens,vitamins lowfat everything.But alas still it's there.You might as well give it a name my friend because it's like a stray animal,now that you have fed it,it's not going anywhere...
........\/PEACE
~Shaun~

[rybread]

tried stim for 2 months. now my spasms are a lot stronger. but when they hit, i have six pack. i try sitting up more, but then i fall over more. curious about uppertone. is it really that easy? I'm skinny when i lie down(especially after bowel care)! about to try new chair w/ more squeeze for better posture and balance. check out pics. tell me whats wrong.
http://www.azquad.com/Equipment%20010.jpg
http://www.azquad.com/images/Rehab%20010.jpg

[Shaun]

If your not familiar with an uppertone check out gpk.com.I love it,it's great but it's big you need a lot of room for it.My thinking is that nobody will notice the belly if your shoulders are 3 feet wide,and by the way your belly dont look that big..BUD..Maybe im wrong but you look a little slouched in your chair,are you able to sit yourself straighter.I know the feeling of sitting up to straight and always falling forward..IT SUCKS..but with time you might find yourself able to sit up straigter..i did.. BUT IM IN KNOW WAY AN EXPERT...
........\/PEACE
~Shaun

[SCI-Nurse]

There is really no exercise that you can do without FES if you have complete paralysis of your abdominal muscles (innervated by T6-T12) that will tighten up these muscles.

Wearing an abdominal binder from the beginning will help prevent some of this, as a lot of it is due to overstretching of the abdominal muscles from gravity's influence on your abdominal organs. If people wear these all the time, then there is less quad belly problem (although still some) when you want to wear a bathing suit, etc. I know several people who have seen plastic surgeons for this, and none have been willing to risk the extensive surgery that would be required to do a "tummy tuck" on someone with SCI, plus it is just likely to reoccur after any such surgery as the paralysis is still there. Also keep in mind that most insurances do not pay for plastic surgery such as this, and it is not cheap.

"Quad belly" is rarely due to weight gain, and weight loss will not reduce it. Excessive weight loss is more likely to take fat off your bottom, where you need it for padding to prevent pressure ulcers, and poor nutrition in the quest for weight loss can also add to your risk of pressure ulcers. (KLD)

[bilby]

That's what I call it. When we use to go to the casino or racetrack my friends would rub it for good luck-it didn't help. It seems my whole anatomy is blessed by bad luck except for my 8 1/2 inch penis.hehe

Spinal nurse is correct, losing weight doesn't make much of a difference.

bill

[This message was edited by bilby on August 07, 2001 at 06:28 PM.]

[etexley]

One exercise that I do is FES assisted sittups. I put the electrodes longitudinally along my abs. I program the channels to fire simultaneously.

I take a hand weight in my hands in back of my head. When the FES unit fires, I throw my hands forward to do the sittup.

I try to do around 200 a day. I'm noticing some return of abdominal motor function since I started this.

Good luck. God willing we'll have our six packs back in the next couple years.

Eric Texley

[stephen212]

Your exercise routine sounds interesting, Eric. It immediately made me wonder if I could do something like that. But at my level injury, which is complete, I don't have any abs to recruit and I don't know that my EMS machine would give me enough of an assist to do a sit up.

Your post would be more meaningful (to me, anyway) if you shared your level of injury. I recently modified my user name to provide that essential piece of information for easy reference -- it helps to put a lot things in context.

[Sue Pendleton]

Stephan, at T4 you might be able to strengthen the upper obliques and that can make your love handles appear smaller at least. :-) This may take a trip or 2 to a PT to figure out the best placement of the electrodes. I started these first while leaning partially back against a triangular foam and plastic dohinky. So when the current came on I would twist up, as far as I could, and in the direction of the electrodes. Now I am just working the middle abdominals again. I did find some preserved innervated muscle on my left side and can now occassionally sit up from laying supine by myself using my stomach muscles. I'm a C5-C7 incomplete.

I think quad gut is in direct reverse ratio to previous muscle mass. So much for all those years of sit ups and leg lifts (those really give you a flat stomach).

[etexley]

hi Stephen

I'm T5 "complete" meaning that I was evaluated in inpatient as a complete injury. Since then, I've demonstrated recuitment all the down to my anterior tubula and gastroc with a biofeedback unit. Dr. Kao did an examination and showed me I'm 5/5 in some muscles which innervate below my injury (I was told in rehab they were above ... http://sci.rutgers.edu/forum/images/smilies/smile.gif

As Dr. Young has pointed out many MANY times "some recovery is the RULE for spinal cord injury." Get a muscle atlas, and find the motor points for your muscles. Find out what you need at a MINIMUM to walk...because THAT is the overall objective. Hips, back, quad, hamstring, anterior tibula, gastroc. My girlfriend is a born again Christian physical therapist....she is the one that has motivated me and shown me so much.

Eric Texley