Too much power?

[Wise Young]

As Melliska showed, users who originate a topics can delete the topic. Once deleted, a topic and all its enclosed messages are gone forever (unless they are smart enough to copy and repost the messages, as Melliska did). It is irreversible; the administrator cannot retrieve deleted topics and messages. Unfortunately, there is no option to give just the power of deleting messages without the power of deleting topics. Is it too much power to give? Which do you prefer?

[sextonjt]

I don't know if this is possible, but I would suggest a compromise. I think anyone should have the ability to delete their own posts. However, when it comes to deleting an entire topic I would suggest that the originator of the topic should be allowed to delete the topic only if there are no replies posted. Once a reply is posted by someone other than the originator, only the administrator should be allowed to delete the entire topic. - Joe

[melliska]

geez dr. young, now i really feel stupid for messing up. (just kidding) i was wondering if you could retrieve it, but it looks like you already answered my question.

my problem with it was that i guess i didn't check to make sure that only my last post was in the delete/edit box. if i had looked i'm guessing i would have seen the whole thread and not just the last post that i had screwed up. is there any way to change the deletion message to say one thing for deleting a single post and another for deleting the whole thread? maybe then people in a hurry like i was would have an extra warning. i guess i just need to get over not wanting to edit things when i make a mistake. that edit message just bothers me somehow. melissa

[Raven]

Dr. Young,

Maybe there is a way that it could be worked differently.

One of the things I like is being able to edit or delete something I post. Yet I know what it is to have someone delete their topic and your input on it. I believe we all like to have others listen to our opinions on the topics brought up and feel bad about having your opinion deleted also.

Just last week I posted a viewpoint in NM and apparently the person felt that he wasn't getting any support on their point of view. The person deleted it without letting others post their opinion. Many of them were pretty upset because they were not allowed that option. I didn't like the fact that what I had replied had been deleted. The reason for it was that I felt that my opinion was of no value since it was deleted.

I think that if there could be a way of deleting
only the person's post instead of the whole topic, it might be a better solution. That way we would still have our say on the subject. Maybe others might have some more suggestions like John had and could put them here for you also.

Just an idea. http://sci.rutgers.edu/forum/images/smilies/smile.gif

Raven

[Sue Pendleton]

How about using the edit feature to delete one's own post? The space may be there but not your words (if said in haste, etc).

[Curt Leatherbee]

It should be changed so that we can delete and edit other peoples posts, when someone lashes out at another person (which seems to happen to me a lot) that person could go in and change the other persons post to something like "have a nice day" or "you are such a great person". I think this would be a great idea. http://sci.rutgers.edu/forum/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

[Wise Young]

Melliska, please don't feel bad. I had not realized that people could delete a topic. I thought that this was a power reserved for moderators and administrators. Furthermore, the program should have at least put up a more informative warning message, including BIG BOLD WORDS saying that you are about to delete the entire topic with everybody else's postings. So, I think that this is a bug in the infopop program. In any case, I will write to the company and see if they have a suggestion or whether they would change the program.

Raven, I agree. I think people should have the power to delete their own posts but this may be too much because it allows the topic originator to delete the postings of others. Also, when even an experienced user such as Melliska can make a mistake and accidentally delete a topic, that is not good.

So, for the time being, I am going to take away the ability of users to modify but not to delete postings. So, people can always blank out the contents of one's postings if they want. You can then write the moderator and ask for the blanks to be deleted.

Wise.

[Shaun]

If we had the power to delete and edit other peoples posts could you imagine what it would be like around here.If it seems like your words are always under attack now imagine if everybody had the power to make your words disappear or change them.I think that kind of power should belong to the moderator and G.G im sure is wise enough to handle it.As for being able to delete your own posts why not...
........\/PEACE
~Shaun~

[Raven]

Dr. Young,

I believe that your idea is even better now. I am sure GG will do that job well. Plus, the whole topic would not be deleted nor the others' thoughts on the subject.

Raven

[melliska]

don't worry about it, dr. young. i was just kidding about feeling stupid. (although i did tell my mom i was dumb after i thought i deleted it...but i guess that's nothing new anyway...lol) the funny thing is though, i didn't actually delete the thread like i thought. (so much for me being an experienced user http://sci.rutgers.edu/forum/images/smilies/wink.gif lol)

you hit on the same point i had about warning people that they were deleting the entire thread. a warning message would help people realize what they were doing even if they were in a hurry. the new way you set everything up looks like it will be a good solution though. it will be more of a compromise (like joe mentioned) then just putting in a warning message. melissa

life is a lesson you learn when you're through.

[kathyp]

sorry i didn't see this thread earlier. hope it's not too late to put my 2 cents in.

i'm with raven regarding deleting threads. it is discouraging to time and thought into something just to have it disappear.

regarding individual posts, i have some mixed feelings. on nm, individuals have in the past written posts to provoke someone, and then once the person responds, they delete their post making the responder look like a total jerk. editing has similarly been used to make people look bad.

on the other hand, i know of an instance where someone innocently posted some information about someone else that the someone else didn't want posted. that person asked the poster to delete the message, and all was set right. a further arguement in favor of editing and deleting posts is the obvious: we all make mistakes.

one solution (which of course would take some programming on the part of infopop) would be to create a folder in which original copies of all deleted and edited posts would be kept. only the moderators would have access to them. if someone felt that a message had been edited or deleted abusively, they could appeal to the moderator who could then review the message in question and decide whether to restore it, or leave it alone. messages would stay in the folder for a certain amount of time, then be automatically deleted if there were no appeals (to save moderators time, and to save storage space).

i think the fact that the forums here are actively moderated and monitored will cut down on a lot of the micky mouse that goes on elsewhere. still, it might be good to have the option available just in case.

kathy

[rdf]

Wise, you posted, "So, for the time being, I am going to take away the ability of users to modify but not to delete postings...."
I don't understand, why would you take away a user's ability to edit their posts? Maybe I'm reading it wrong, I don't know.

[Wise Young]

rdf, I miswrote. I meant that I am taking away the ability of people to delete their posts but not to modify their posts. If you try, you will find that you can modify your post but the delete button post button should no longer appear.

By the way, I have also set it so that people have two days to modify their posts. This is to avoid the situation where somebody is responding to a post and then somebody then change the posting to make the response look silly or stupid.

The goal of the forums is to allow people to express their opinions in a way that the community can listen in and participate. Many valuable ideas and information can be passed this way. We will also be using the flow of ideas from these forums to drive content development for the site.

Wise.

[Wise Young]

I made a copy of this topic on the Feedback forum so that people can continue the feedback there. Thanks. Wise.

[Curt Leatherbee]

I think that you have a made a Wise decision and I fully agree with what you did. I hope everyone realizes that I was only kidding around in my previous post, if everyone had the power to change everyone elses posts, it would be a disaster.

[bilby]

Its not like you'll be deleting the words of ShakeSpeare, if you start a topic you should be able to delete it. I'm sure humanity can live through such a staggering loss..!..

bill

[This message was edited by bilby on August 27, 2001 at 07:05 PM.]

[Wise Young]

bilby,

I must have been punch-drunk when I posted the poll and then copied the poll over to the other forum without thinking. So, we now have duplicate polls that do not reflect the current situation. Anyway, it seems that people are pretty much evenly divided between wanting the power to delete a topic and those who don't want it.

After I posted the above poll, I decided that it was too risky to allow users to delete entire topics. For example, it means that Birde (whom we have not heard from for a while...) could have by accident deleted the topic relating to Carl Kao in the Cure Forum, losing forever the nearly 100 postings on that topic. In my opinion, that would have been a loss to the community. In my opinion, the moment others begin to contribute to a topic, the topic does not belong to the topic originator any more but to everybody who contributed to the thread.

So, I have taken away the ability of users to delete messages (posts) and topics. However, people can continue to edit their posts up to two days after they have posted... including the ability to simply wipe out what they wrote. I limited it to two days because it would be inappropriate for somebody to delete what they said to make somebody else's response look silly.

But I have given another option in exchange, i.e. a topic originator can close a topic to further posting. This is useful in some cases. Look at what is happening to Fernando's topic http://carecure.org/forum/showthread.php?t=28370 where some people have taken over the topic and changed it into a direction that he never intended. He is upset about it. So, Fernando, if he wants to, can close that topic to further postings. People can start their own topic if they want to continue the discussion.

Finally, regarding the Shakespearean quality of the forums, I don't know about you but I truly value what people write on these forums. I am still bit upset about Cando not selling us the Spinewire/Cando Forum material. Cando do not know nor understand what the forums meant to the people who came daily to the forums. Those forums contained the outpourings of a community for a three year period. It showed the growing of individuals and a community through a time when many people were uncertain about whether a cure was possible. Remember the fights that we had on there about how doctors and scientists had the cure in their back pocket and were holding back? Personally speaking, I have made many friendships on these forums and don't want the evidence of that friendship erased accidentally or willfully.

Sorry about the rant.

Wise.

[bilby]

Wise, I was refering to deleting a message not topic, my mistake.

I tried deleting a post of mine(one I didn't think was appropriate ) but it wouldn't allow me. I think that blows!

That's why I used sarcastic language in my previous message.

bill

[glittergirl]

If you start the topic you shold be allowed to delete it...sure everyone else spent time responding but sometimes things dont go the way they were intended with a post as we have seen many times in the past on SPW and CanDo...

XOXOXOX

~*~*~Cilly~*~*~

[Wise Young]

Glitter, It seems that people are about evenly split on this issue. If people really are concerned with the way the topic is going, they can close it and also request that the moderator move the offending posts from the topic that they created. This of course must be done with substantial discretion because that would amount to censureship.

Bilby, you probably tried to delete the post after I took the power of user deletion away. However, you can go in to edit your message and leave it blank or change it to whatever you want. I had gone ahead to take away this power until it became clear what the community wants to do.

Since I made a mess out of the original poll, let me first discuss the various options and let people suggest their own options and solutions. Once that is settled, I can then set up a poll to get people's votes on how they want to handle the situation.

1. People can delete their postings and topic originators can delete topics along with other people's postings in the thread.

2. People cannot delete their postings or topics but they can edit the postings and topics, including blanking them out, without a time time.

3. People cannot delete their postings or topics but they can edit the postings and topics up to 2 days after the post has been made.

4. People cannot delete or edit their posting.

In all cases, moderators of the forum will be able to delete, move, copy, or edit the postings by any user.

Can people suggest different variations or different wordings of this so that the poll is most effective. Thanks.

Wise.