Is it possible to be happy again after spinal cord injury?

[omeleteman]

Hi there. It is the first time I write. I'm a 30 year old T3 brazilian para who suffered a car accident just 6 months ago and I'm tryng to reach rehabilitation at home with daily physiotherapy sessions and I have some doubts which some of you who might have more experience may clear up.
- Is it actually possible to reach total independency?
- Am I going to be able to get up from bed, take a shower, undress and dress, get an adapted car to go to work, obtain some intestin and urinary control, and finnaly do all these things without other people's help?
- Is there any hint in terms of psychological recovery? Is it possible to be happy again in my present situation? what about sexual life?
Thanks in advance for those who could give me some attention

[This message was edited by Fernando on August 14, 2001 at 01:10 AM.]

[gpbullock]

I know SCI is pretty daunting in the begining, but it will get easier. I was 31 when I broke my back, I needed quite alot of help for the first 6 months but then as you begin to experience more things from your chair, you will find that you are pretty much the same as before, you just can't walk. I was always worried about hurting myself if I came out of my wheelchair, but after I ate shit a couple of times I realized that this wasn't the case. My level is a little lowerl than yours; t12, but I've seen low C quads attain the same level of independance that I now have. As far as being happy..I am rarely very happy, but that is because I have always felt unsatisfied if I knew that I could do something better than I am now, so I can deal with this injury, but I'll never accept it. Good luck. How is Brazil for accessability. One of my SCI friends wife is from Brazil. I know she would like to return but I think he has doubts about going

[SCI-Nurse]

Fernando, I am afraid I am not very familiar with what is available for rehab in your country. I have a friend who is a rehab nurse in Sao Paulo, but she teaches in a nursing school there. Did you get any inpatient rehab at all? Do you have any access to specialized SCI rehab programs? What part of Brazil are you in?

I am also anticipating possibly traveling to Brazil this fall with my mother who is quadriplegic due to MS, so may want to communicate with you about this separately. (KLD)

[omeleteman]

Well, there are some specialized rehab places here in Brazil but my neurosurgeon guaranteed that a personal treatment at home with the fisiotherapeut he indicated would be more effective. This fisiotherapeut has got lots of experience in SCI rehab. I watched videos in which he recorded the evolution of some Para patients, some of whose injuries with higher level than mine, were able to walk, with difficulty, with the help of mulletes and that apparatus that you hold to keep your body straight and walk(I don't know the name of it in English). This gives them more independency. I also know some people with the same problem that obtained satisfatory independency. I'm from Rio de Janeiro and would have pleasure to help people about things, related or not to SCI problems.
Nurse, you can e-mail me whenever you want to.
I've never been in the USA but it is much probable that accessibility here is much more difficult than in the USA. Anyway, things are a bit better than they were before due to pressure that people with the same kind of problem usually make on Brazilian Government.
Sorry for some probable English mistakes.

[Becky]

I am a 21 year old T9-10 post about 14 months. I am not 100% independent now, but almost there. I am not saying that you won't have bad days, but you will eventually be able to do most everything by yourself. I am not able to walk, but I can dress, shower, cath and use the rest room by my self. But don't get discouraged if you have a bad day. Like just recently my bowel program went haywire, and I was so upset and didn't want to leave the house. I had to work hard, and get it back in order and get on with my life.

[Shaun]

Your independence will come,i would'nt worry about that.Happy i dont know about,i hope you do.Myself im a lot of different words im more understanding,concerned,helpful,caring will you get the picture,the best words i've found describe our situation is coping,dealing,hoping but the most important one's and never forget these bro are reach and obtain.Remember those and you'll find yourself smilin all the time..
.........\/PEACE
~Shaun~

[rybread]

I have some friends that are lower level cervical injuries that are fully independent and don't depend on anybody for anything. I'm a c5-6 level injury and I plan on becoming fully independent in the next couple of years. And that's without finger movement. I think it all depends on your state of mind. And now thirteen months post, and I have some bad days, but for the most part all I do is work towards independence. I spend good portions of my day working on my computer building web sites. The rest of the day, I tried to spend exercising and getting stronger so that one day I will be able to transfer myself. You have a lot of muscles that I don't have, nor do my other independent friends have. I think that you will become fully independent and have a somewhat normal life after that. It just takes some time. Hell, If I can do it, you can. I also am planning to join quad rugby in the next couple of months. I hear there's a lot of good advice amongst the players on how to become independent. Maybe if you found found a sport to do where you could get advice from other people with similar injuries, it will make a go by faster. Not to mention keep your mind off of your injury. Good luck to you.

[Scorpion]

Yes, you can be happy again. It takes a hell of a lot of work compared to before being paralyzed, but you can be happy. Now, this is not to say that I'm happy all the time or that I don't mind being paralyzed. A day doesn't go by where I don't have at least one occasion to curse the day I was paralyzed, but this doesn't consume my whole day or my entire thought patterns.

You've got to socialize with friends and family, do things that you enjoyed before your injury that you still can, and above all, fight the urge to feel sorry for yourself. Even with all your effort, you'll still have days where you will feel sorry for yourself, and we all need times where we can grieve for what we've lost. After over 10 years, I still have those grieving days, but they are fewer and farther between.

Being happy doesn't mean you are happy with being paralyzed. It simply means that you are happy for what you have, even though that seems like very little at times. No matter how bad it gets, someone out there is having it worse than you--and they're not only surviving, they're thriving. I'd turn down the fortune of Bill Gates to have the body and life I had before October 13, 1990, but I've had some damn good times since then, despite the quadriplegia. I plan to experience even more happiness in the future, despite the quadriplegia. And if the day comes when I can walk barefoot into the ocean again, I'll be crying tears of joy. In the meantime, I find my happiness in my art, my enjoyment of music, movies, the fresh air and warm sun, the smiles of my nieces and nephew, the love of family and friends, etc.

~Rus

[Scorpion]

Fernando, I'm a fully independent C-6 quad, living 11 hours from my nearest family. If I can become independent, I trust you can too. But only you can determine that.

~Rus

[Curt Leatherbee]

I have been a t-4 complete for 20 years and after a while you hardly even think about being paralyzed. You just do what you have to do. Think about getting involved with other Disabled folks in you're area, Wheelchair Basketball, Handcycling, Tennis, etc. at least for me, staying active, really helped out.

I just noticed Scorpion, you got me beat by 10 posts, darn. http://sci.rutgers.edu/forum/images/smilies/smile.gif

[Shawn]

That's very inspiring Scorpion. I truly admire someone that, despite the negative that comes with SCI, has the power and determination to find the happiness around them.

[Shaun]

So let me get this straight im the only person who,and dont misunderstand me im jolly,chipper and am by no meens depressed.But thinks happy is maybe the wrong word.Since my sci i giver hell, nothin stops me but i cant remember the last time i went to bed or got up in the morning thinkin ''GEE WIZ I SURE AM HAPPY TODAY''.Family,friends sure i have couple nephews and nieces and being with them makes me feel good,i would be happy playin football,baseball and hockey with them not havin to ask them to run upstairs and grab something for me.Am i wrong if so how can i change because i would love to...
..........\/PEACE
~Shaun

[Scorpion]

Shaun,

I think you're placing happiness too much in the physical. I didn't mean I'm overjoyed with everything in my life, but c'mon, can you honestly say you're never happy? If so, you've got more problems than being a gimp. Would I be happier if I wasn't paralyzed? Hell yeah! But there are fuckin' miserable people out there with no physical signs of reasons to be miserable. You don't need to be a gimp to be miserable, and you don't need to be an A/B to be happy. I'm not happy with my physical disabilities, but I can be happy about more intangible things. When I'm hanging with friends, joking, laughing, throwing a few back, shooting the shit, I'm genuinely happy. I'm not thinking, 'this would be great if only I weren't paralyzed.' Now, I have had times where that's what I was thinking, especially if all my friends are doing some kind of sport I'd love to be involved in. But that doesn't dominate my thoughts.

But just from your posts I've read, I wouldn't have thought you to be one to say he's never happy. Either you're exaggerating, or you really need to re-evaluate your mentality, in my humble opinion. Maybe you're afraid to look at your life and say, "Yeah, I can be happy despite my paralysis." It's not about giving in, giving up, or surrendering to the idea that it's okay to be paralyzed. It's about looking for happiness outside your physical abilities. I'm not saying it's easy, just possible.

~Rus

[Shaun]

Maybe your right man,you made some good points!
Perhaps i just need some more time with this thing and then maybe i to can join the happy people i just passed the three year mark by days.How long was it after your sci was it before you found your happiness.Oh,and im not a miserable man,i think maybe just a little lost brother.I suppose you probably even think the Islanders might win the cup to eh,anyway i will think about everything you said...Thanks bud! I just reread this and it sounds like im bein a goof,not my intention..

..........\/PEACE
~Shau

[Scorpion]

I'm not sure when I started to realize I could be 'happy,' but part of it was when I realized I was going to be able to draw as well as before my accident, despite being a quad, having my hands paralyzed. Drawing has always been my first passion, so when I saw it was going to come back, albeit with a lot of hard work, I began to see life wasn't over. Mainly, I think I just decided to try and be happy, ignoring the hell paralysis puts us in. I've been fighting this SCI for close to 11 years now, and it's not easy to push away the negative and focus on the positive, but it can be done. It sounds cheesy as hell, but happiness is part of the journey, it's not the destination. The idea is to try and control the waves so the happy times outshadow the shitty times. SCI sucks the big one, but I refuse to let it keep me from being happy.

BTW, I see your email addy is smoke_signals--ever see the movie "Smoke Signals"? It's a funny & poignant film about a young Indian on a reservation in Washington state.

~Rus

[Shaun]

I have seen it,anytime i hear the the word fry bread i bust out laughin,nothin to do with my e-mail addy though.And i hope Fernando is listening to Scorpion,since he's the one who started this thread and asked the question and Scorpion seems to be a wise ''HAPPY''man http://sci.rutgers.edu/forum/images/smilies/biggrin.gif. MY UNDYIN LOVE TO YOU ALL.....

........\/PEACE
~Shaun~

[Scorpion]

What a great movie! And the Thomas character cracked me up with his stories and the cadence of his speech. What IS fry bread anyway? Living in the Southern U.S. most of my life, I'd never heard of it until I saw the movie. It looked tastey though.

~Rus

[kathyp]

fry bread is a staple of life. i grew up on a reservation in southwestern colorado. lots of reservations down that way. everywhere you go, if there is food, there is fry bread. you make up this dough, make it into patties, and deep fry it. then you top it with anything that doesn't eat you first. we put beans on it or mutton. also make indian tacos with it. just like a regular taco except instead of a shell you use fry bread. have also had it with elk or dear meat and beans. another good way to have it is to tear off pieces and dip it in blue or red mush. also with honey is good. sometimes it's good to eat fry bread just plain, the way it is, hot out of the fryer.

if you go to the southwest someday, i'm sure you'll find some somewhere.

[Scorpion]

Thanks for the description. It sounds damn tastey. http://sci.rutgers.edu/forum/images/smilies/smile.gif I've been in the Southwest, but never heard of fry bread. Its name describes exactly what it is, but I wasn't exactly sure if it was a desert-type bread or what.

So, you grew up on a reservation in Colorado? Are you native American?

If you ever get a chance, rent "Smoke Signals." It was written by Sherman Alexie, and it was the first film written by and starring Indians to get a major-distibution deal. I'm not an Indian, I just have an interest in the cultures passed down from my Dad's fascination with them. My sister-in-law is part Cherokee, but her sister shows the heritage more in her face, I think. Anyway, I think Indian women can be beautiful. http://sci.rutgers.edu/forum/images/smilies/smile.gif But then I'm a sucker for brunettes.

~Rus

[This message was edited by Scorpion on August 15, 2001 at 01:47 AM.]

[omeleteman]

I would like to thank you all for expressing different points of view on possibilities of, at least, looking for happiness in this situation. I don't know if it's because my injury is too recent (6 months )and the level of physical progresse's possibilities are not yet clear to me that I've been usually thinking about it.
The interruption of an active life after SCI makes us loose direction sometimes.
It's really encouraging to know that people with lower cervical level injuries are fully independent.
Another thing that makes happiness seem difficult to reach is the hard work that we may experience of changing the concept of what happiness is because we have life before SCI as parameter.
Things change and I see that this concept may change together with physical adaptations.
It is actually a hard work to do but I hope I can manage to do it, sooner or later. http://sci.rutgers.edu/forum/images/smilies/smile.gif

[Scorpion]

Fernando, the first year was hard for me. I was in the hospital then rehab for almost 6 months, and going home was another huge adjustment. It doesn't happen overnight, but it does get better.

~Rus

[Jeff]

Fernando - I'm a C6 and function like a C7. I love snorkelling. I took my wife a couple weeks ago and she had an absolute blast. It was like enjoying the thrill of swimming with the fishes all over again as it was brand new for my wife. I wear special swimming gloves that give me a webbed swath through the water. It's an extremely low cost activity that is a lot of fun.

At T3 your options are even greater. Almost wide open. High level quads have the fewest choices. Look at CR, I guess, to see what is possible for those with the resources to make it happen.

[antiquity]

Gosh, I wish I were a T3 para lol. Yes, you can be completely independent. Low paras can dress, shower, drive, manage their bowel and bladder care, transfer in and out of bed....all without anyones help. I can do all the above (except for 1) independently and I'm a C7/8 quad which means my paralysis is about 7 degrees worse than yours.

Can you be happy? Yes! You may hate being in a wc but you there are things in life that you can derive happiness from. You can derive happiness from being married or with an s.o., from hobbies or interests like clubbing/partying, playing sports, spending time with friends and family, being independent, all kinds of things. I, like Jeff, hated the social isolation sci brought but my quality of life improved significantly after I met my husband. I'm not happy being sci'ed but I am happy with the other aspects of my life that don't directly involve my disability.

[FREEJ]

FERNANDO,,, GIVE YOURSELF SOME TIME TO GET MENTALLY/PHYSICALLY IN ORDER. AS MANY HAVE TOLD YOU, IT TAKES TIME. HEED THE PERSPECTIVES OF SCORP, RYE,KATHY, BECK, SHAWN, OTHERS ALIKE.

ALSO; I'M NOT SAYING ANY SCI SITUATION IS BETTER THAN ANOTHER. BUT UNDERSTAND SENECA'S WORDS, ''I WISH I WERE A T-3.'' TAKE CARE OF YOURSELF PHYSICALLY, WORK AT IT AND AS A T-3 YOU'LL BE OK. THINK POSITIVE.

SENECA, AS A C-4, I CAN RELATE TO YOR WORDS WELL.

[Curt Leatherbee]

Still having full use of you're arms and you're hands Fernando is big, and it means you can do almost anything you set you're mind to, it is definately a major adjustment, no doubt. But you can go on to live a very full life, Just as Quads can if they set their minds to it, we all just have different ways of getting things done and living our lives, its mainly having the right attitude is what counts.

[Ron]

First of all Fernando Do ya'll have Donkey Shows in Brazil? You wouldn't believe how hard it is to find a good ol' fashion display of bestiality here in the U.S. If ya'll have donkey shows I may have to load up the truck and move to Brazil.

My suggestion to you is to find yourself about seven hookers and just start bangin' away. That should clear your head and get you started on the road to rehabilitation.

[Birde]

Ron, when Fernando asked about "sexual life" I don't think he was thinking along the lines that you describe! What is that about? Is that what Arkansas men really think about? PAHLEASE!!!! Get in touch with reality once! http://sci.rutgers.edu/forum/images/smilies/mad.gif

[KLD]

I nominate Ron for our Arkie Ugly American Award for his crude and ignorant welcome to our Brazilian friend!

[Ron]

What are you two overweight shut-ins complaining about? Our foreign friend wanted to be assured that you can still have good wholesome fun after an sci and the best stuff this bunch of short bus riders could come up with was handcycling, gimp basketball, snorkeling, and eating fry bread, whatever the heck that is. If someone told me that all I could look forward to was that faggoty crap after breaking my neck, I would probably stay doped up on prozac like birde's ignorant ass does. So I just tried to bring something to the table that didn't seem to scream "homo". Like a wise man once said "If bangin' seven Brazillian hookers is wrong, I don't wanna be right."

And birde, best of luck with that whole snake oil.....I mean surgery that's gonna get you up and running around in no time thing. Once you're all better maybe you can stay at my ocean side vacation home here in Arkansas.

[Raven]

Fernando,

I have been dis for 40+ years and have been so lucky to have done many things as if I were able bodied. I was married, had children, raised them practically by myself, worked outside of my home, bought my home with my earnings and numerous other things. Don't think I am trying to brag, I just want you to see how much can be done even with an SCI.

One thing I have learned through time is that you are as limited as much as you permit yourself to be limited. Life has always had its ups and downs even when AB. The thing is to live one day at a time when you feel depressed. I won't lie to you that you will be always happy because no one is totally free of some unhappy days or moments. Just do the best you can in this situation and don't let it drag you down for the rest of your life.

Whenever the wind seems to be blowing you back, just turn your back on it and keep on fighting the battle.

Life is what we also make of it, I believe, so believe in yourself and keep on enjoying life as much as possible.

Enough of me... Will keep you in my thoughts and may God bless and strengthen you always.

Raven

[omeleteman]

Actually, when I mentioned doubts on sexual life I wanted to know what can we get of it after SCI and if it can still be good instead of just having fun. But I understood Ron's considerations, too.
Did those who are married have children after SCI?
I'm not married and haven't yet thought of having children before SCI but I may consider it carefully now because maybe it gives life a new sense, am I right?

http://sci.rutgers.edu/forum/images/smilies/wink.gif

[Birde]

OUCH RON! That hurt! http://sci.rutgers.edu/forum/images/smilies/eek.gif You sure know how to hit below the belt!! It's a good thing I can't feel down there. I'll have to pay extra $$ for Kao to repair my pride now that you chewed it up and spit it out! I had no idea that you were so opposed to nerve regeneration/transplant...sorry to get you all riled up! I should be at your oceanside vacation home around the first of ...NEVER! http://sci.rutgers.edu/forum/images/smilies/wink.gif

[gpbullock]

In my own experience, 4 months post injury I got enrolled in school to learn some skills which would enable me to work from a wheelchair, but I still do many of the things I used to do for work also. I drive a lowered chevy x-cab with hand controls, nothing else is modified. I had a 4x4 but it was lifted and it killed my shoulders to get in and out too many times. All of the people I knew in chairs at the time told me to stay at home and relax, but that was unacceptable. I spent 14 hours a day in my wheelchair in school(I already have a Bachelors degree.)studying the computer and learning digital animation. Soon after completing school I began working as a teacher at the school I just finished training in. I also workout twice a day. Swim and handcycle in the mornings and weights in the evenings. I found that I got alot more bowel and bladder return after I got into working out. The strength you get from strengthening your abs will greatly aid in your bowell program(intestine) as well as bladder control. You really just have to ask yourself what you want out of life and go for it. Just like you always did(before your accident). Like you, I am single and I question having kids post injury because I always pictured myself teaching my kids how to surf and snowboard, wakeboard, etc. so personally I think I'll wait on the kids until I walk again. You can do whatever motivates you with hard work. As far as hobby's go to each his own. I'm sure it is difficult for some people to express themselves when injured at a young age because they never received a chance to discover themselves fully, so Birde don't take any comments made personally. I thank god my injury occured after a lifetime of accomplishments and not during my formative years

[SCI-Nurse]

Fernando, here is a good site where you can get more information about having children after an SCI:

http://www.scifertility.com

You can also get more sexuality information here:

http://sourcehealth.com
http://sexualhealth.com

(KLD)

[Ron]

gpbullock First of all your little story was mighty inspiring. I was moved by the fact that you went to school a mere 4 months after your injury, especially since I started back to school 4 months after a c6-7 injury. I was just wondering what these accomplishments you speak so highly of were? Is being a 32 year old without a wife one of those amazing accomplishments you spoke about? That's one to be proud of. Of course I'm sure you're just "weighing your options" which is codetalk for trying to decide whether you're gonna use your right or left hand tonight. Is being a cripple who works with computers one your accomplishments? You don't see that everyday. Anyhow, I just wanted to let you know what a special little gimp you are, and that I can only dream about someday being a 32 year old who lives by himself and has a crappy job.
BTW What in the hell is this "trouble expressing themselves" crap. I thought I made myself pretty clear. And much like you, I also thank god. But I'm just thankful I didn't break my neck after pissing away 32 years without doing anything notable,only to come to the realization that I was just an insignifigant little mole on the nut sac of life.

[Shaun]

Just a little news flash for ya,collecting the money from your moms one women donkey show is a crappy job and marrying your sister was wrong,Did you weigh your options there!Must of been hard chosen for ya with all those aunts,cousins and uncles around.Anyway,congrats on that school thing,im sure your the only one who went back to school so soon.You didnt seem to learn anything but hey it's a good story,now roll outside and give that kid with the banjo a slap in the head for me.I filled this little punctuation errors Ronnie could you correct them for me.THANKS.
......\/PEACE
~Shaun

[Ron]

After consulting my retarded jerkoff to English translation dictionary, I think I kinda figured out what in the hell you were trying to say. First of all, I would like to commend you for coming up with that whole "Arkansans are inbreds hehehe" thing. I'm pretty sure you're the first person on earth to make that hilarious observation (I know you're slow, so I'll go ahead and let you know that my last statement was sarcastic). Also, I wasn't bragging about going to school, I was just letting your little "companion" know that he wasn't king gimp just because he rolled his ass to college. Last of all, I would like to point out how cool that whole peace thing you sign your posts with is. (Once again, my slow friend, that was sarcasm)

[This message was edited by Ron on August 22, 2001 at 04:03 PM.]

[Webber]

Hey Ron, Keep it up and pray for a cure...you'll be a great "Stand Up Comic" no kiddin!!

[gpbullock]

When you start doing more than sitting in your power chair, having someone stick their finger in your ass and changing your piss bag, you let me know.

[Ron]

At my level of injury, not one thing you just said applies to me. However, I'm pretty sure you've managed to offend damn near every person that visits this site who has a higher level of injury than I do. You really are a dumb bastard, aren't you? And btw, If that was the best comeback you have for me, I'd suggest you spend the time you would normally spend writing lame little comments that don't even apply to me doing something more constructive. Like trying to hook up with shaun. Can't you see how perfect you two pecker checkers are for each other? You both have the iq of a seven year old and from the way he came to your rescue after I put you in your place, it seems he wants your sausage in a bad way. Good luck, you two little lovebirds.

[Shaun]

You have your own dictionary thats great! I have been wondering how you've been able to understand all the english around here.That must be where to locate ''Donkey Show'',i've been looking in our english dictionary and have been unable to find it,is this where you locate all your whores as i spend my time with ladies i know very little about them.''Bragging'' i thought i commended you on your schooling my southern friend.I do owe you an appology on the ''INBRED''thing i stereotyped you and im sorry.Peace is a way of life not an era in time ,i know you deleted it but seemed like your first thought.I only hope your able to find some outside whores and donkey shows,and if it helps Ronald take my hand and know i love you brother
.........\/PEACE
~Shaun http://sci.rutgers.edu/forum/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

[Shaun]

Im afraid without my own copy of your retarded jerkoff to english dictionary im unable to translate this but i'll guess.Pecker Checker,is that like a bird watcher or maybe someone who likes wood peckers.Wants your sausage,im assuming Mr Bullock is a butcher but these are guess's mind you,but your the one with that special dictionary.Or maybe you know through personal experience.Please enligten us Ronald share your knowledge of such things ya goofy little fella..

..........\/PEACE
~Shaun

[omeleteman]

I don't quite understand the reason why the discussion came to this point.
It wasn't my intention and I don't think this is gonna take us anywhere.

http://sci.rutgers.edu/forum/images/smilies/frown.gif

[Shaun]

Sorry buddy,just havin a little fun but your right i've messed your thread.I apologize..

.........\/PEACE
~Shaun~

[klabm]

If you were happy before you will be happy again. Life is what you make it. Having a spinal cord injury makes life more challenging, but not less enjoyable. I can say today that everyone that I personally know in a chair is now married. Pretty weird, but it seems that people love each other for more than physical reasons (though nookie is good). 9/10 of sex is in the mind as you could tell from the smut mongers who first replied to your post. You may not have exactly a "normal" life , but then who is normal? Life is good, if you let it be. I am afraid that you will think this forum is loaded with perverts, well it might be. I am afraid that the mere mention of sex whipped them into a frenzy, I am sure it is the case that those who are most vocal are getting it the least. They really should work on their courting skills, that must be why Ron needs hookers, I am not sure how donkeys got into the conversation, I am sure it is rooted in some internet porn site http://sci.rutgers.edu/forum/images/smilies/wink.gif

[Ron]

I've been called a lot of things in my 19 years, but "smut monger" and "pervert" just might be the nicest names anyone's ever called me. I'm blushing. And Is it just me, or does anyone else see how badly this broad wants ol' Ron's body?

[antiquity]

Good post Klabm. http://sci.rutgers.edu/forum/images/smilies/smile.gif

[Andy C]

Ron, for someone who claims SCI hasn't stopped him doing anything, you sure as hell come across as being very bitter about the situation.

To reply to me via email, replace 'spambucket' with 'andy'.

[bilby]

I couldn't handle two Brazilian hookers, even if I was jacked up on viagra. I'd embarrass myself with seven.

http://sci.rutgers.edu/forum/images/smilies/tongue.gif

bill