warm water bladder irrigation

[Kinshin]

Hi guys,
thanks for maintaining such a friendly and informative forum.
I'm a T8 complete and suffering from recurring UTI's since 2002.
Just last month my new urologist educated me that cloudy and smelly urine is not a UTI until I see other symptoms. And asked me to do a warm water bladder irrigation and to my utter surprise it took out the cloudy n smelly symptoms by the evening. I continued few days (twice a day) just to end up with frequent urine accidents.
Anything in excess of 400ml kicks out. And it took almost 15days to get back to normal. Now is this normal or did I do any thing wrong ? Did you guys ever tried this without any side effects ?
my wife reminds me that this has happend to me few years ago when I was done bladder dynamics by my previous urologist and had asked to take cipro for a month suspecting he might have scratched somewhere . :doh:
please help
~kin

[Donno]

That's interesting, I did 3 or 4 Verericyn VF instillations between last Wednesday and Monday because my urine was getting cloudy, and I have been leaking at night, and having to cath at about 150 to 200 ml. I didn't associate it with the instillations, but I am going to hold off for a couple of weeks and see if there appears to be cause and effect. It seems like a lot of folks are instilling Microcyn or Vetericyn without these side effects. You can take a look at this thread: http://sci.rutgers.edu/forum/showthread.php?t=133414

Don

[Kinshin]

thnks D,
yes I've been an ardent follower of that thread ever since.
may be some nurse/Dr might shed some light on this inflaming the bladder.

[SCI-Nurse]

Hi,

In my experience, most irrigations are done with normal saline and not water. That said, bladder irrigations are not routinely done to improve bad smell and cloudiness in urine. In those rare instances when irrigation is recommended, it is due to particles obstructing the catheter opening causing it to "clog" often, which can set up autonomic dysreflexia.

There are many threads on this site discussing vetricyn, but personally, I have not seen it work well nor does scientific literature support its use.
My recommendation would be to hold off on irrigation and increased your fluids to see if that will improve the odor and cloudiness of your urine.

AAD

[Kinshin]

That's interesting, I did 3 or 4 Verericyn VF instillations between last Wednesday and Monday because my urine was getting cloudy, and I have been leaking at night, and having to cath at about 150 to 200 ml. I didn't associate it with the instillations, but I am going to hold off for a couple of weeks and see if there appears to be cause and effect. It seems like a lot of folks are instilling Microcyn or Vetericyn without these side effects. You can take a look at this thread: http://sci.rutgers.edu/forum/showthread.php?t=133414

Don

Don,
have you seen any change ?. My urologist trashed my finding saying it won't happen...ever. so it might be a untreated bug :cooldude:.,
`kin.

[Donno]

Naw, still leaking. Had to start wearing an external cath to bed at night :(

[lynnifer]

Getting used to this foley since 2009's summer ... how does one go about irrigating the bladder with a foley catheter installed because don't they have a reflex valve in them? Should I be taking it out and irrigating with just a regular catheter that doesn't have that reflex valve? I have packaged saline at the ready!

My urologist in Toronto whom I met for the first time last month said that she was going to have a visiting nurse explain it to me but it never happened and I haven't met anyone I trust enough yet (knowledge or otherwise) to ask! I quickly tried to search the net without success.

I tried to fill a large syringe with saline and inject it ... but it just backflowed and spilled out from where I disconnected the bag at the end of the foley cath. I didn't want to force anything as I'm in enough trouble already.

I found a 'cure' for the instances where sediment appears .. and that is to take the damn foley out completely and 'crede' it for two days. It's amazing how quickly urine turns normal after that ... but I can't keep it up for the leaking. All catheters are evil, lol.

I'm sorry if this seems like a stupid question. I only dealt with catheters as a 12yr old ... and now since last summer. I have been extremely lucky, I admit.

[Kinshin]

Naw, still leaking. Had to start wearing an external cath to bed at night :(

Don,
I believe you are doing the maintenance VF instillations , then how did you get the cloudy urine again ?

[Donno]

Kinshin, wish I knew. Actually it's not cloudy, there's sediment in it but runs pretty clear except the beginning and end of the stream. There's a really good urologist at the VA in New Haven, CT who is familiar with SCI problems, and I am trying to see if I can have a conversation with him. I've spent hours reading posts about bladders, UTIs, sediment, symptoms, etc., and every time I think that I have gotten a clue to what is going on with me, turns out to be not quite right or what has worked for others isn't working for me.

Don

[Donno]

lynnifer,

When I got my foley irrigated in the hospital, they used a 60 ml syringe, seated it firmly in the flared end and injected the saline. Then they just bent it over double and put a clamp on it.

Because my bladder was used to being mostly empty, I got AD from them putting in 60 ml. If you are using crede occasionally, you should know how much you are able to hold without problems.

Good luck,

Don