¤ i need everyone's help please ¤

[melliska]

hi everybody, the reason for my post is to ask all of you for some help and advice.

last night a 16 year old buy from my small town in iowa was in a car accident and broke his neck. it was a pretty bad accident and one of the other 16 year old guys in the car died.

the first boy broke his neck at c5 and can't feel anything from the chest down and can only shrug his shoulders so far. he was taken to another small-ish town around here because of the accident's location and i'm not sure if he received methylprednisolone. (ever since my accident it is standard to give sci's methylprednisolone here, but i'm not sure how many injuries the other town has seen)

now he's in mason city in critical care (i was transferred there too) and is hopefully being taken care of by my awesome neurosurgeon. i called to speak with his family, but he's not in a regular room yet and i couldn't reach his family because they haven't been in the waiting room when i've called.

my question to all of you is...what in regards to treatment, rehab, clinical trials, etc. should i pass on to his family? my family was pretty lost when i got hurt so i'd like to help his family out if i can. since my injury i've tried to get in touch with everyone else around here that has been hurt, but i haven't been able to talk to anyone's family this soon after injury so i'd like to have all the information i can for them.

thanks everybody, melissa

Life is a lesson you learn when you're through.

[Wise Young]

Melliska,

• Early care. I am pretty sure that he would have received methylprednisolone. The key thing in the beginning is to make sure that he has been stabilized and all his medical problems are being taken care of.

• Experimental therapies. While there are a number of experimental therapies that are being offered during the first two weeks after injury, it is important to remember that none of the treatments have proven efficacy and the family must balance the risk and benefits of moving him to another hospital.

• He needs a good orthopedic and neurosurgeon. I know that Mason City has a lot of top-ranked emergency and surgical facilities and apparently has the second largest number of surgeons after Iowa City in the state of Iowa. Mercy Medical Center, for example, has a neurosurgery group.

• There is plenty of time to choose a good rehabilitation center. There are two superb places that are within driving distance of Mason City. These of course include Iowa City, the University of Washington at St. Louis and St. Louis University. There is also Chicago Rehabilitation Center and Rush Prebyterian.

Wise.

Wise Young PhD MD, Professor II & Director
W M Keck Center for Collaborative Neuroscience
Rutgers, State University of New Jersey
604 Allison Rd, Piscataway, NJ 08854-8082
tel: 732/445-2061, fax: 732/445-2063
email: wisey@pipeline.com, young@biology.rutgers.edu
web: http://carecure.rutgers.edu, http://sciwire.com

[Chris Chappell]

Sorry to hear this news. I hate admitting new members to this club.

Not knowing enough detail about the family I'm going to guess that you're looking to provide them with information relating to what they can do as far as cure / rehab?

1. Regardless of the hospital that they are currently in I would recommend that they talk to a reputable, national center of excellence. Not knowing what's available in Iowa I think they should call Craig hospital in Colorado. #303-789-8000. Ask for the medical director Dr. Daniel Lammertse. (If he's not there ask for someone in his office to help).

2. If they are interested in the most current acute related "cure" therapies I would explore the Proneuron (macrophage clinical trials) being offered in Tel Aviv, which is covered cost-wise by Proneuron. Have them check the website at www.proneuron.com (http://www.proneuron.com) They could also check out the Purdue University study, The Neotherapeutics trial, Russia, Taiwan, Ecuador etc. Have them check the trials forum of this site so that they can judge for themselves what may be applicable.

Given his level of injury, getting him into a hospital / facility that specializes in SCI can't be emphasized enough.

Good luck,

Chris

[glomae]

please go to the proneron site thats mentioned in the other reply, the last i yet they were recuriting patients one of the criterias is the injury has to have happened within 14days. GOD bless the family and i hope you can be of assistanace to them http://sci.rutgers.edu/forum/images/smilies/wink.gif

[Jeff]

is selecting acute injury patients for their Neotrofin Phase II trial, I believe. It's closer to home than Israel and holds just as much promise, IMO. Either way, an experimental therapy is what I'd want someone to do for me.

[kngtreeman]

this is just on example of the tecknowledgy we have.with all the available treatment out their this poor kid is ganna be a member of this club.we still dont have anything to choos from.no matter what his and his families choise is, its a huge gamble.their was a girl in my town not so long ago that was inured in a car wreck.i did the same thing and Asked spinewire what she should do.a 22 year old mother of 2.in the end she was treated exactly as i was and now is exactly AS I AM.IT WOULD BE ONE THING IF WE HAD LIVED OUR LIVES AND THIS HAPPENED.BUT ITS A AWFUL SHAME TO HAVE IT HAPPEN SO YOUNG.

scott r

[pecla]

This was the latest press release from NeoTherapeutics about their Neotrofin trial and it mentions the 4 hospitals involved.

NeoTherapeutics Expands Neotrofin(TM) Trials in Spinal Cord Injury -- Two "Centers of Excellence" in the treatment of spinal cord injury added

IRVINE, Calif., Aug 22, 2001 /PRNewswire via COMTEX/ -- NeoTherapeutics, Inc. (Nasdaq: NEOT; NEOTW) announced today that it has expanded its Neotrofin(TM) spinal cord injury trial to include Thomas Jefferson University Hospital (Pennsylvania) and Craig Rehabilitation Center (Denver). Seven patients are currently receiving Neotrofin: five at Rancho Los Amigos Hospital in Los Angeles and one each at Craig Rehabilitation Hospital and Thomas Jefferson University Hospital. The four currently active centers are expected to enroll a total of 30 to 40 patients for 12 weeks of dosing.

Craig Hospital in Denver has long been recognized as a premier national 'Center of Excellence' in the specialty of rehabilitation and research for patients with spinal cord injury and acquired brain injury. Craig Hospital has treated more than 23,000 patients since 1956 -- more than any other single facility in the world. The principal investigator at this site is Daniel Lammertse, M.D.

Thomas Jefferson University Hospital, in affiliation with the Magee Rehabilitation Hospital, is designated as one of the nation's 18 regional Research Spinal Cord Injury Centers and a Center of Excellence in the treatment of spinal cord injury. Located just outside Philadelphia, the center has treated more than 2,500 patients. The principal investigator at this site is Anthony Burns, M.D.

"We are pleased to have four of the leading centers for spinal cord injury participating in this clinical study," said F. Jacob Huff, M.D., Vice President, Medical Affairs at NeoTherapeutics. "Craig Rehabilitation Hospital, Rancho Los Amigos and Thomas Jefferson University are three of the eighteen regional Centers of Excellence for treatment of spinal cord injury in the United States, and Gaylord Hospital in Wallingford, Connecticut, has a long tradition of providing high quality patient rehabilitation."

"The expansion of our Neotrofin clinical trials into spinal cord injury and Parkinson's disease reflects the broad range of activity the drug has demonstrated in pre-clinical neuro-degenerative models," stated Rajesh C. Shrotriya, M.D., President and Chief Operating Officer of NeoTherapeutics. "We have compelling pre-clinical data showing neuro-protection and nerve regeneration potential in the brain, the spine and the peripheral nervous system. Our clinical trial program for Neotrofin continues to expand to reflect the growing number of potential applications for our lead drug."

In this 12-week open-label study, patients with sub-acute, complete spinal cord injury will receive Neotrofin for 12 weeks, and will be evaluated at regular intervals. In addition to extensive assessments for tolerance and safety, the Standard Neurological Classification of Spinal Cord Injury (SNCSCI) - manual motor exam score will be used as the primary evidence of preliminary efficacy. Secondary efficacy measures include the American Spinal Injury Association (ASIA) impairment scale (ASIA-IS), Functional Independence Measure (FIM) and SNCSCI-sensory exam.

[BirdeR]

"Experimental therapies. While there are a number of experimental therapies that are being offered during the first two weeks after injury, it is important to remember that none of the treatments have proven efficacy and the family must balance the risk and benefits of moving him to another hospital." POSTED BY WISE YOUNG. While I totaly agree with Dr. Young and his advice on the risks VS. benefits of experimental therapies and moving a newly injured SCI patient, I also agree with contacting Proneuron. Of coarse I would also contact Dr. Kao and Dr. Cheng as well. It does not hurt to contact them or any person that is making strides in the SCI field. Dr. Kao can operate in the U.S. on untethering and decompression, and I would think that if this is the case w/ this boy - that he needs one of these procedures, Dr. Kao would be the man many would choose. Perhaps direct the family to this site or give them all the info. available and let them call/contact these people and here from them and choose their route. God Bless this boy!!!

[giambjj]

Send him to Philly, everything is free there for he and his family and they have excellent facilities. He will feel better being among kids his own age. I know that from experience with my son, Jake.

JJG

[Sci Mom]

Melissa,

I think you've received some great suggestions, but let me add one other thing. When my daughter was injured, all our friends did research, handed us information that made my head swim, and kept trying to help in various ways. My daughter was at a model SCI facility [Univ. of Michigan, Ann Arbor] so there was tons of stuff in place for both her recovery and our coping. But...having said all that, the biggest comfort and help was to have a visit from a young man who graduated the year before her. He was injured his senior year of high school, just like Bri, and is now a med student at U of M. He's a C level quad, incomplete, I believe; but it was such a comfort to see him come rolling in, talking about dorm life and classes, and LIVING. It was the best boost any of us had. So...can you go visit this boy? Seeing that life will not be ICU and IV and feeding tubes forever could be just the "medicine" they need right now.
Godspeed~
Sci Mo

[Still]

do what Birde and Wise Young said....We are from a small town with a regional hospital...We were lucky, the doctors there knew there was nothing they could do for my son...They gave him the medicine you are worried about (most all the doctors know to follow proceedure) and sent us on immediately to Children's Hospital in Birmingham, AL. We remained there for 3 months in ICU...it took along time to stabilize my son...Wise is right...you have time to pick a rehab place...first things first...
Unfortunately, we couldn't take advantages of procedures that had to be preformed within 2 weeks as we were unable to be moved. We had excellent care and then proceeded on...
We did go to the Shriner's Hosp. in Philly...but my son didn't care for it at all. We thought that our way would be paid to get there but so far it has not been paid...except by us. They were nice but not what we needed...Jake wanted to try something experimental since none of the routine proceedures seem to help much. We did go to see Dr. Kao. Another good experience. Good luck in your aid to these people....print off the pages from your computer...they will be to nervous right now to be able to do that for themselves or to think...then give them step by step instructions on how to get to this site and other sites...no one told me about this site, I just found this site last week...and Jake's injury was 9 months ago.
Good luck.

[This message was edited by Still on October 11, 2001 at 12:01 PM.]

[melliska]

thanks dr. young, chris, glomae, jeff, scott, pecla, birdeR, jgiambro, sci mom, and still. these posts are yet another reason why the spinewire/sciwire group is the best. you guys are great.

good outline, dr. young. i know for a fact why mason is so good...they have my(lol) dr. beck. he's awesome. keith is actually at mercy medical so i'm sure he's in good hands. good ideas, chris. i'll try to get them craig's # asap. proneuron is also a good thing to let them know about. i'm always wishing i was melissa holley http://sci.rutgers.edu/forum/images/smilies/wink.gif thanks for the reminder, mr. stache...i mean jeffrey. neotrofin is a lot closer to home than proneuron. (although i don't know which is a better therapy) thanks for the article, pecla. those are good ideas in your post too, birdeR. thanks for the mention of shriners, jgiambro. someone else posted about them too. thanks, sci mom. i'm probably not the best representation of sci, (i have bad chronic pain) but i'm going to try to get to mason. (i don't travel well right now) even if keith is kind of out of it (i was for 2 weeks) i can still talk to his family. his mom seemed relieved to hear from me. thanks for your post too, still. everyone has their own preferences so your post gives the other point of view.

when i talked to keith's mom today i told her i'd get all this information together for her. i asked her if she could get on the net but she says she's going to be at the hospital with him for the next couple days and probably won't be able to get online soon.

she told me that they want to ship him off to rehab in about a week. i think she's still in shock. she asked me where i went and she said they had already told mentioned that place. i have a feeling they haven't given her too many options though. (especially since they only gave my parents 2 or 3 and not even the one i ended up going to in minneapolis) i hope i can get the info to her sometime this weekend, if not sooner. i don't know if i'll be able to make it there myself though. thanks again, melissa

ps...(can you ps a post...i'm not sure) i found out that he's the lil brother of a buddy of mine i used to work with http://sci.rutgers.edu/forum/images/smilies/frown.gif

Life is a lesson you learn when you're through.

[cheesecake]

Melissa,
Next to Dr Young, Dr McDonald is the best! Some cutting edge research as well as a strong CARF program. Add to that a doctor with alot of passion and compassion and you have a winning combination.
I have done alot of work with pediatric facilities. At 16, depending on his physical development he is better suited in an adult facility. If he is a "young" 16 he might do well at a pediatric facility. One of the best that I have worked with is DuPont in Delaware, especially if there are any vent dependency issues.

[PN]

You may want to contact Dr. Khouri in Florida. E-Mail <chkhouri@bellssouth.net>

PN

[melliska]

thanks for your help, B. i'm going to give keith's mom your email address. i looked up dr. mcdonald on the net and found his email address and office phone number.

thanks for your help too, paul.

i talked with his mom this afternoon and he's not doing as well now. the poor guy has been remembering the accident. the worst thing is though that they say he has a touch of pneumonia. i told her that i had to go on a vent for 2 days and have a trach and she said that the doctors are leaning towards something like that for him too http://sci.rutgers.edu/forum/images/smilies/frown.gif i feel so bad every time i think about keith going through all the hospital and rehab stuff. i wish they would figure out how to reverse acute SCI's...then he wouldn't have to join our horrible club.

spinalnurse...can you think of anything else i should tell them about? i'm going to have someone drop off the information at their house so his grandparents can pick it up and take it to mason.
oh yeah, i had another question...what does CARF stand for? (i totally forget) thank you, melissa

Life is a lesson you learn when you're through.

[SCI-Nurse]

CARF = the Commission for Accreditation of Rehabilitation Facilities. This is the only organization that accredits rehab programs, both inpatient and outpatient, and has specialty accreditation for SCI, TBI, pain, peds, behavioral health and other types of rehab programs. They accredit over 11,000 facilties in the USA, Canada and Europe. This is their web site: www.carf.org (http://www.carf.org)

When I see new injury patients and their families in the ICU, I think it is important to give them accurate functional outcome information. So often I find the acute care staff has given overly negative and inaccurate information.

For example, I had an active duty 26 yo Marine with a C6 injury. His family had been told by a Navy physician that he should be placed in a nursing home as he would be totally dependant and a "burden" on them. I will always remember their relief when I told them what a highly motivated C-6 could do. Eventually he lived by himself in his own house, attended law school full time, played quad rugby and tennis and served on the board for the local PVA chapter.

I always tell them that at this point no one can say how much return the injuried person will get, but that we must deal with what we have right now. If we get more back, we will work with that too. I also tell them that how much return the person gets is not something that can be influenced by being more determined (religious, a better person, etc. etc.) but what the person does with the return they get can often be influenced by hard work.

I also frequently give them a copy of "Spinal Network" and suggest that they read what they are ready for in the many times they are just sitting and waiting in the ICU waiting room.

(KLD)

If he needs suctioning it can be done through an intubation tube or just straight using liquid valium to calm him down during the procedure. The fewer open areas on his body the faster he'll heal and regain strength.

Sue P

[melliska]

thanks for the great post kld. i got the chance to pass on most of the information. thanks for your post too, sue p.

ok, i have pretty much the same injury level as this boy and i ran into some of the same things. i got a lil bit of pneumonia like he has and i ended up with a trach. i also had a feeding tube down my nose from about my injury (nov. 19) until dec. 11.

here are my questions/concerns...as of now keith is intubated and has (it was a rushed phone call but i'm sure his grandma said he already has) a feeding tube down his nose. she told me that they want to put a trach in monday and i told her that if the doctors say he needs it, he probably does. (i reassured her that i had a trach too because i needed to be suctioned so much)

she asked me how long it was before i could eat and i told her about how i started eating things i liked about a week before i went to rehab. then i told her that i really started eating in rehab because i had to prove to my doctor that they could take out my feeding tube. she told me that the doctors want to put a feeding tube through his abdomen directly into his stomach.

i know i'm not a doctor, but i don't really know why that would be necessary. if they are going to take out the intubation tube and put in a trach, why can't the nose feeding tube stay in until he's eating enough food? i had problems with any extras i had...a sore around my trach, a sore from my collar, etc...so i'm worried about him having an extra surgery/tube/wound. help please?!? melissa

Life is a lesson you learn when you're through.

[SCI-Nurse]

Intubation through the nose or mouth should only be used for ventilation and suctioning for about 7 days. After that a trach is much safer. Long term use of intubation without a trach can cause serious problems such as tracheal stenosis which is very difficult to treat, usually requiring surgery.

Similarly, if you leave an NG tube for feeding in too long it can cause serious sinus infections and actually increases the risk of aspiration. It is much safer to put in a PEG (tube into the stomach) and a lot more comfortable for the patient too.

Now days patients are rarely allowed to eat orally while they still have a trach in (unless it is long term) as the trach alone will almost gurantee aspiration. A swallow study should always be done prior to oral feeding.

KLD

[Scorpion]

In my humble opinion, a trach is much better than a nasal intubation tube. I had drowned, so I woke up in ICU with the tube in my nose on the right side. in hindsight, I wish they had put the trach in on day 1. My nose was constantly irritated and the tibe was always pulling on my nostril. To this day, my right nostril is stretched out, and if I could afford it, I would have a 'nose job' to correct it. The main problem though was that trying to breath thru that tube, even on a vent, was like trying to breath thru a straw. With my lungs messed up for inhaling saltwater, sand and seaweed, I needed as much O2 as possible and that tube wasn't cutting it. My breathing imprved dramatically when I got the trach. And I'll take suctioning thru a trach of the nasal tube any day.

Anybody know a good plastic surgeon? I don't mind all my scars, but I hate how my nostril looks. http://sci.rutgers.edu/forum/images/smilies/smile.gif

~Rus

"Because you're not promised tomorrow." ~ Stuck Mojo

I understood the suctioning would only be for a few days. I was intubated for 9 days and would have been trached if I couldn't breaath on my own by the 10th day. There is a German nurse out there I owe a lot to for being a pain in the butt to get me going again in time. I was intubated down the the trachea though not the nose. At least I remember it that way. Left me with a very sore throat but I had bronchitis and needed the suctioning and extra air.

Can't say much about the feeding tube. What I know is second hand and seems to have involved tea in and acid out...?? Had some hot cereal once I was awake and extubated.

I kind of wonder though about not pushing new injuries toward the new phase 1 therapies. Are they hearing 5 years like we did? I think honesty about what people can and cannot expect should both be offered while the person is still newly injured. If I had known the degree of personal privacy I was losing and is still gone I would have not agreed to be intubated or to many other procedures that have gotten me to where I am today. This is a very unforgiving injury and we are the ones who must live with the results, not the medical personnel or family and friends, many who disappear quickly. I've been blessed in this department but many are not.

Rus..I have a small frown wrinkle I want to get rid of too. Want to go in and ask for a 2 for 1 discount?

[melliska]

ok, keith has his trach now and is doing better. he did have some blood in his stomach, but his grandma said they fixed that somehow.

i agree rus. my trach was what was best for me. i had a lot of problems with my lungs and gunk in them and needed to be suctioned a lot.

sue, you are definitely right about the injury and what goes with it. i don't want to overly push them towards a trial but i want them to know what even a lil bit of return can mean to a person with an sci. frankly, with everything i've had to go through i probably would have refused the trach, intubation, etc too.

if you two decide to go in for the plastic surgery count me in. i have a horrible scar from my trach getting a wound around it that i'd like to get rid of.


tonight after talking to his grandma i'm a lil upset. my mom, sister, and i had planned to go visit keith and his family tomorrow but it looks like it might not work out. i don't want to whine but it is really going to be hard on me to make the trip with the pain from sitting and the ride in my van (that kicks my a$$ pretty bad by itself) but i was going to do it so i could talk to keith. tonight though, his grandma said they're not going to let him see me http://sci.rutgers.edu/forum/images/smilies/frown.gif

apparently he hasn't realized he's paralyzed or something so they don't want him to see my freak wheelchair girl self. boy, does it feel good to know that they don't want him to think that he might end up like me. for god's sake, do they think when they send him to rehab the beginning of next week he won't notice he has to sit in a wheelchair??? "here lil boy, you're ok...no, that's not a wheelchair. don't worry, you're not like that boy sharing your room who's paralyzed."

basically it's not worth the pain for me to go talk to his grandma and mom there when i could see them in our hometown. the reason i was going was to see keith. maybe i thought by showing him that i was a regular girl who just happens to sit in a chair would help. i was even going to bring him a tape full of south park's to watch. i was also going to bring my resting splints and air boots to show them so he could get some to position his hands and keep from getting foot drop. a relative of mine who's an OT had to call the hospital in mason city because they didn't know to give me them when i was there. i thought i could help by reminding his nurses and doctor that he needed them.

sorry to vent on here but this has really upset me. not since the first time i went out in public have i felt like such a freak. melissa

Life is a lesson you learn when you're through.

[Scorpion]

You're not the freak, Melissa. They're just scared, in denial, over-protective of Kieth, and trying to hide their eyes from reality.

As for refusing intubation, etc, are you all saying if you had a choice you would have rather died than live with paralysis. Uh...no offense, but...FUCK THAT! http://sci.rutgers.edu/forum/images/smilies/smile.gif I've got way too much life to live. SCI sucks big-time, but if I had given up & died 11 years ago, my mark on this planet wouldn't have been fully made. I wish to God I could be 'whole' again, but I'd be missing out on my nieces & nephew, pretty girls, good friends, etc etc if I had refused treatment. Besides, Melissa, if you had died, who'd be doing all your ass-kickin'? We need every ass-kicker we can get, ya know.

Never give up! Never surrender! http://sci.rutgers.edu/forum/images/smilies/smile.gif (Even though we all feel like it sometimes)

~Rus

"Because you're not promised tomorrow." ~ Stuck Mojo

[Sci Mom]

You are not a freak, by any stretch of the imagination. It would be great for Keith to see you, and apparently even better for his family to see you! I guess everyone deals with SCI in their own way, and that includes the families. Just know that you were set to do the right thing; they will realize that eventually. Boy do they have a long way to go...I sure don't envy them.
I'm glad those days are gone for me personally. I was just so glad my daughter was still alive, without a serious head injury...her paralysis was "do-able" in our eyes, and that has proven to be the case. We saw so many families around us in much more serious situations, we floated through ICU and rehab days on a cloud of thankfulness. I guess we were pretty lucky, eh?
SCI Mom

[Carl R]

the feeding tube in the stomach is not such a bad thing. I had one for about five months because I had no appetite and I had lost about 45 lbs. in the first 60 days. I also had a bed sore and needed a way to get more vitamins and protein into my system.

The tubes that go down through your mouth and nose also carry scarring risk if they are left in to long. I had a granuloma come up on my vocal cord because the tubes had scarred and had to have it surgically removed by laser. It is also much more comfortable getting all those damn tubes out of your nose and mouth.

Rus, we all make decisions based on our own ccircumstaces, religions, philosophies, pain thresholds, etc. I was told I would be "fine" within a year. How was I to make any kind of informed decisions based on that moron neurologist's say so?

I was a mentally stable person and I needed facts not hype to make some very quick decisions. If SCI is considered so bad by the American medical profession (and this was an American doc) that they have to lie to people just to get them to agree to life sustaining measures than we are a lot further from a cure or even mitigation than even I have thought.

We send peer counselors to the newly injured but how "peer" are they? Are we all just skippy with our condiions or do the newly injured not deserve the whole truth??

Melissa...you're in Iowa? We get to the plastic surgeons phase I can visit my folks in southern Wisconsin. Maybe look for someone near Peroria?? I have relatives there we could hang with during the fix it up stage.

[melliska]

thanks for your posts, rus and sci mom. for some reason i really took their refusal to let me see him personally. i had some kind mental breakdown or something and went nuts. now that my tough side kicked in my feelings aren't hurt so bad. plus my 11 year old sister told me the reason they didn't want him to see me was that he would've thought i was so pretty he would've wanted to move in with me instead of them...rofl. (too bad she just said that to make me feel better)

i started feeling worse for keith after this because i really think his family is more than unusually in denial. i don't think his mom listened to the doctor when he explained spinal cord injuries. i don't think he does either because he told someone he'll be running track again next spring http://sci.rutgers.edu/forum/images/smilies/frown.gif

i mean, i wouldn't want the doctor to tell them that there was NO hope for him walking, but i think that his mom should understand that his function might not improve. she told my mom that his cord isn't cut, the bone just pushed into it and my mom tried to explain that my injury's the same, but i don't think she wanted to hear it.

i'm still going to try to go up there next week to see if i can talk to him. the poor kid probably won't be going to rehab before then because of complications.

i have to agree with sue about making sci related decisions. i wouldn't have said i would have refused treatment except for the fact that i have chronic pain that keeps getting worse. it's wearing me down so sometimes i do wish i hadn't made it. i've always been a happy person and i am most of the time, but it does sometimes get the better of me.

sue...yes, i'm in north central iowa. if you ever make it to wisconsin the plan is on http://sci.rutgers.edu/forum/images/smilies/wink.gif if rus comes can i kick his ass? j/k lol. i'll just have to demonstrate my throw down abilities on someone else for you guys. melissa

Life is a lesson you learn when you're through.

[Carl R]

I would bet your sister is right. . . You probably make SCI look pretty good. Hang in there, I'm sure you'll get through to them. http://sci.rutgers.edu/forum/images/smilies/wink.gif