View Full Version : Dr. Young's Diapulse work in Chronics
07-31-2001, 12:59 PM
A little less than a yeat ago you mentioned on Spinewire that you had unsuccessfully treated a few chronically injured patients with Diapulse in the eighties with no apparent regenerative effects. Do you remember how many patients were involved, the particulars of their cases (how long post injury, how severe were their injuries, and what level were they), and what protocol you employed in the test? These answers are all important, but the most critical one concerns your confimation that Diapulse was ineffective when used by itself as a regenerative tool for chronic SCI.
Also, in your Sept. 15th 1985 letter to the FDA you wrote:
"The manuscript on PEMF induced calcium changes has been finished, submitted to Neuroscience for review, and is enclosed. I am in the process of finishing up some final figures for two manuscripts on the functional effects of PEMF."
...in which on page 20 of the enclosed manuscript you go on to report 78% of Diapulse treated cats were able to walk independently four months post injury compatared to 0% of the controls. You then favorably compare these results to those gained through MP usage. Would you please share these manuscripts with me, Jesse Ross of Diapulse, or academic researchers pursuing this field? Thank you!
07-31-2001, 01:05 PM
First, I want to apologize for not having responded to your many requests for the material. To tell you the truth, I have not been able to find my old files relating to Diapulse. Many of the old files were buried or misplaced during my move from NYU to Rutgers and I hope that I have not lost them. There were actually 10 filing cabinets of paper that were moved and they are in storage somewhere. Things have been so hectic that I have not had a chance to look for the stuff. You seem to have stuff that I don't have access to now. Over the years, I gave copies of most reports and other material to Berne Siler who was visiting the laboratory. Wise.
07-31-2001, 06:13 PM
JK, did you find out why the Polish decided to abandon Diapulse therapy as a treatment for acute SCI after their apparent success with it?
08-01-2001, 08:06 AM
Thank you for getting back to me on this. I will ask Jesse Ross if he knows if Bern Siler ever had the manuscripts. But I'm relatively sure that Jesse doesn't have them now, since he's sent me any pertinent info he has concerning the affect of Diapulse on factors impacting nerve repair. My next step will be to file a freedom of information act request with the FDA for a copy of the manuscript you included with your Sept 15th letter. But because of the delay, costs, and hassles invloved I'm sure you can understand why I had hoped you would have someone look through the old material you've put in storage for the scripts.
Regarding your use of Diapulse for chronic SCI, do you remember the particulars of the attempt...specifically the outcome, if not the protocol or patient profiles?
Yes, I know exacly why the Polish did not proceed with the trial. Through email correspondence with a present department head at the Warsaw Academy of Medicine I've learned that the motivating force of their Diapulse clinical trial, Professor Weiss, died unexpectedly soon after the publication of their original findings. On top of that, right after his death the Communist government of Poland fell, and with it much of the country's social structure. He said that at the time they were extremely hard put in keeping their hospitals and labs staffed, supplied with basic medicine, and able to treat patients with quality care.
08-01-2001, 08:26 AM
Ok, that makes sense, thanks JK.
08-04-2001, 11:13 AM
I realize that you may be hesitant to share the details of your Diapulse work, as researchers are sometimes asked to sign "non-disclosure" agreements with those that either funded the work in question, or who may have contributed a crucial component to the study. And since Diapulse Corporation loaned you free of charge (and for several years) a $25K machine (today's prices) and the American Paralysis Association funded the work, possibly you're not free to share the results with third parties. Therefore, why not send copies of your manuscripts to Diapulse and/or the Christopher Reeve Paralysis Foundation (which used to be the APA). I've spoken with both Jesse Ross and the CRPF and they eagerly look forward to reading your work. Furthermore, they have no objections to your sharing it with others. Let me know if you need contact info to verify this, or the mailing addresses of interested researchers.
Thanks in advance from all of us with SCI for selflessly contributing your previous work to a project aimed at hastening the advent of synergistic curative treatments for chronic SCI.
08-06-2001, 08:23 PM
Jim Kelly said below: "My next step will be to file a freedom of information act request with the FDA for a copy of the manuscript you included with your Sept 15th letter. But because of the delay, costs, and hassles invloved I'm sure you can understand why I had hoped you would have someone look through the old material you've put in storage for the scripts."
Jim, don't you find it somewhat incredible that Jesse Ross, the CEO of Diapulse does not have this manuscript. After all, he has the most to gain from publicizing it, doesn't he? Is he not the CEO or President of Diapulse Corporation, the entity that has the most to gain from public acceptance of Diapulse therapy for sci? So why is he playing games with you? Why don't you harass him for the document as much as you do Dr. Young?
It was about a year ago that I suggested to you that if you wanted the manuscript you ought to file a freedom of information request with the FDA. If fact, I started to help you. However, you engaged in such name-calling and other bizarre behavior, that I decided I did not want to be associated with someone as obviously unstable as you and decided I did not want to be associated with you in any way.
For your information, it is quit simple to file a freedom of information request. Just write a letter to the Freedom of Information Officer at the FDA. Site the FOI act, state what you want, and state that you want the document for non-commercial purposes. You should get a response within a week. It is not as much of a hassle as you make it out to be. You could have had the document you request a year ago if you were so inclined. I think you are too busy harassing Wise Young and trying to impress people with your very limited intelligence than doing something constructive for your cause - like filing a simple FOI request and getting it last year. I think all that inosine you snorted baked your brain.
My point is, Jim, why don't you just go ahead and make your FOI request instead of announcing on this board, in intimidating and big shot threatening fashion, what "your next step" is going to be? Why do you bore us all with the details of what you are going to do next? I could give a rip about what you intend to do.
[This message was edited by bill j. on August 07, 2001 at 08:22 AM.]
08-07-2001, 09:21 AM
You are talking about material that is over 15 years old. I gave the Diapulse Corporation data and manuscripts that I have submitted. From the materials that you have presented in previous postings, it is clear you have the detailed data that I had given to Diapulse, including confidential reports that I had sent to the FDA and APA.
I have looked through my old files and have not been able to find the material. The last time that I saw these files was probably in 1987. In 1990, I started the practice of throwing out files that were more than seven years old. In 1997, I moved to Rutgers and many of my old files were thrown out. I suspect that this is the main reason why I cannot find the material. In fact, you have copies of material that I do not have.
Other than loaning us a Diapulse device so that the study could be carried out, I never received any funding from Diapulse for the work. In contrast, I invested considerable time, personnel, equipment, animal costs, and other resources to do the research.
Diapulse should initiate a clinical trial for spinal cord injury. There are no longer any safety concerns, to my knowledge. Why hasn't a clinical trial started already? Perhaps you can share with us what plans you or Diapulse may have to develp the technology further for clinical application in spinal cord injury?
08-07-2001, 11:11 AM
Bill, I'm glad you brought up these points.
In the first place, I have not asked Jesse Ross for the manuscript simply because it was never given to him by Dr. Young. Of course, Dr. Ross could also file an FOA with the FDA, but I never even thought to raise the issue with him. The FDA has ONE of the manuscripts I want, Dr. Young has all THREE. Qui?
And to tell the truth, I NEVER expected Wise Young to share those manuscripts with ANYONE, nor did I expect him to share the details of his unsuccessful treatment with Diapulse of patients with chronic SCI. (However, in light of this post he MAY finally share those details while adopting a hurt, much abused, long-suffering tone.) If he ever DOES suddenly find those manuscripts and claim he's ready to share them with others, you can be sure it will be for no other reason than this simple request of mine (which has been regularly repeated for almost two months now) has exposed his utter lack of interest in assisting any SCI research projects other than his own, or those that don't threaten his reputation or achievements. In fact, it should be becoming increasingly obvious that Dr. Young's sole "private" interest in SCI is as a means of advancing his own theories and ambitions. His "public" use for SCI is to justify the robust growth of federally funded basic research.
Actions speak louder than words, Bill. They did in 1985 when Dr. Wise Young abandoned this work in favor of a treatment that he admitted to the FDA was inferior to the one he went on to champion with the support of the NIH. A year ago he tried to deny that Diapulse usage in acute SCI ever led to ANY functional results, whereas his presentations of the eighties along with the letter to the FDA CLEARLY prove he conducted at least three, and probably four very successful functional test with Diapulse. I've used these public forums to present my requests for the manuscripts for the simple reason that WY could have ignored my emailed requests as easily as he has done these posts (his placating nothings notwithstanding). However, in doing so his refusal to assist the SCI curative research efforts of others speaks volumes to those with SCI whose minds are not immersed in denial.
Believe me Bill, I have broached this issue with many AB researchers and medical professionals. In some cases they have vehemently abused Dr. Young's behavior in this matter. In others, they have merely shook their heads in sadness, wry humor, or disgust. But in no case, after comparing Dr. Young's Diapulse presentations against his denials in Spinewire (which to a large degree I've saved) has anyone unattached to SCI by emotional ties found fault with my reasoning or defended Dr. Young's behavior in this matter. If this thread (or others) becomes embittered and leads to hard words, it is YOU who have turned it in that direction. I was content to endlessly repeat my requests as a "show, don't tell" method of driving home to the SCI Community the above mentioned truths. Furthermore, if such a discussion should prove embarrassing to have publicly aired during the height of the present stem cell issue, whose fault is it? I merely patiently asked for Dr. Young's assistance in broadening the technical understanding of other researchers intent on investigating the potential for PEMF to enhance the performance of several of the most promising regenerative treatments available today. And if I lost control of my fingers in the heat of the moment during the height of the Diapulse controversy on Spinewire, it may have been partially due to the fact that at the time I was being told lies when I was asking for truth; it may have had to do with the fact that the abandonment of Diapulse possibly had much to do with the fact I was sitting in a wheelchair with 75% of my body inert; it may have something to do with the fact that the lies I was being told were BEING told by the very man responsible for the abandonment; if may have had something to do with the fact that Dr. Young was at the time trying to cast me as a villain for having the gall to question and refute his learned self, or question his ethics and wisdom in having furthered his career at the possible cost of condemning a large portion of 450,000 Americans to endure lives of misery and despair. You may have forgotten or denied such things, Bill, but I cannot.
You may feel I'm trying to appear self-important in name-dropping researchers and bureaucrats. I can TRULY assure you, Bill, that such is not the case. My ONLY concern is getting out of this chair. To do so, I use common sense as best I can and back my words with actions. When supporting my contentions, I quote researchers or refer to my sources simply to lend credibility to the words of an untrained layman, much the same as researchers refer to peer reviewed publications to support their rational. The difference between you and I, Bill, is that I weigh the statements of many experts first hand (after having made it my business to contact them and form a basis for communication). I then use my judgement to form opinions based on the information I gather. You, apparently, appear to be satisfied with accepting carte blanch the claims of a single expert to whom you have admittedly formed an emotional attachment. The one thing I refuse to do, Bill, is subvert my reasoning mind for mindless devotion to an individual, a treatment, or cause. I already sit in a wheelchair, I don't need a crutch.
[This message was edited by James Kelly on August 07, 2001 at 02:20 PM.]
08-07-2001, 12:23 PM
I have sat quietly reading these threads, waiting for you to make some wild accusations. Let me show you how old you are acting.
Can you recall the exact details and outcomes of everything you have ever done? Even if it was of something you did that you felt had no real use? Do you tell a story the same time -- every time? or do you recall details differently each time you tell it?
If memory serves, you worked on railroads at one point in time. Did any of the railroads you worked on have train crashes or problems? In the past 10 years, have there ever been any trouble? You don't know? don't remember? My gawd Jim, you must be responsible for every problem thereafter since you can't remember the details of the work you did. Waitasec... if you can't remember everything, I'm sure you have documentation. What? You threw the documentation away because you throw everything older than 5 years away? That's a cover up -- pure and simple. I cannot believe that you, a trusted railroad worker, would intentionally do something that would endanger passengers. If you had only kept that paperwork we could have seen that you maid a minor error that one time and fixed it so the train didn't go off of the tracks. Or that one time where the train was delayed for 3 hours. Think of the people involved, Jim. The little girl who had to grow up without a mother, the guy who died because he missed his dialysis treatment, even the guy who flew out when the train skipped and now has to live his life paralyzed. Imagine the pain and suffering you caused these people. All because you thought the paperwork was no longer needed. Au contraire. How little you know. Do you want to know what the worst part of it is? You claim that you cared about those people. What a joke.
Now let's look at this whole situation.
You found out that PEMF waves help enhance the environment for new CNS cell sub-types to grow. You later found out that in the 80s Dr. Young used a Diapulse machine in some experiments before switching over to something he felt was more promising. Then you asked Dr. Young if he remembered the specifics of the trial and/or the outcomes. Over the course of 10 years or more, Dr. Young may have forgotten some of the details of the research. He admitted to not being able to find the manuscripts but, after pressure from you, tried to answer your questions as best he could -- without documentation.
Jim, you cannot expect researchers to drive themselves crazy trying to find manuscripts that they think they no longer, let alone change what they are currently studying because some new research has been done in something that the researcher has long since moved away from. Why not talk to researchers who used to study Rolipram? Hassle them to start studying it again. Look closely. Find someone who studied Rolipram in the 80s. Ask for copies of the studies they did. See what they say.
That's all from me. I apologize to those that know me for my regression to childhood antics. I just wish Jim would put effort into something more productive.
Jim, I have read all your posts, both here and on the old Cando. There are many strange people who post on public message boards. You are one of the weirdest I've ran across. You are one weird guy.
Steven, you are wasting your time with trying to reason with this guy. He;s got his mind made up. Don't bother him with reasoning or facts.
I should have added that on the old forum, I remember someone saying that Jim has the temperament of a 6 year old or something to that effect. If you read his posts on this topic, I think you will agree that he reverts to 6 year old tactics. He sounds like a first grader on a playground trying to win an argument. If you disagree with him, it is because you do not have a mind of your own, or you have an "emotional" attachment with Dr. Young (Gee, were Bill J and Dr. Young having an affair, Jim?) or that you don't think for yourself or some other cockeyed and downright stupid 6-year-year-old like statement. The omnipotent Jim knows everything that motivates anyone that disagrees with him and knows everything that motivates Dr. Young and perhaps every other scientist, and he is not a bit bashful about us telling all about it in his own insulting way. Jim, how did you get so all-knowing smart that you can completely discard facts and analyze each of us psychologically?
I can hardly wait for your response. The more you write, the bigger fool you make out of yourself.
08-07-2001, 07:58 PM
I've said before I think you're way too into conspiracy theories, but questioning is still a good thing. But, from what I've seen, you didn't 'request' anything from Dr. Young, you demanded he show you documentation of some experiments he and others believed weren't productive so you could prove something. What, exactly, I don't know. But your demand was thinly veiled as a 'request.' Even in your typed posts, I could see you were 'leading the witness' so to speak. If you've got an agenda, you're not helping to win people over to your ideas by demanding stuff and clinching your teeth. You just come across as a conspiracy nut, and I quit reading your posts on the topic.
I don't claim to know enough about the studies to say you're completely off your rocker, but your posts make you seem like another gimp crying and stomping his virtual feet demanding that scientists get you out of your chair. It doesn't help your cause, and it doesn't help any of us get a 'cure.' Dude, I tried seeing your side over and over in these posts, but it keeps sounding like you're saying, "Wait, I know I'm a layman, Mr. Scientist-guy, but I read some stuff, and you should really look at the Diapulse experiments again! Wait, don't leave! What? You wanna go be sa glory-hound, huh? What are you hiding from us crips?" Sorry, James, that's just how it sounds from where I sit, and I generally try and give everyone the benefit of the doubt.
08-08-2001, 02:40 AM
"...has exposed his utter lack of interest in assisting any SCI research projects other than his own, or those that don't threaten his reputation or achievements. In fact, it should be becoming increasingly obvious that Dr. Young's sole "private" interest in SCI is as a means of advancing his own theories and ambitions. His "public" use for SCI is to justify the robust growth of federally funded basic research."
"However, in doing so his refusal to assist the SCI curative research efforts of others speaks volumes to those with SCI whose minds are not immersed in denial."
Jim, how can you accuse Dr. Young of these things when he has been more than generous and forthright in providing information, explanations and encouraging unbiased discussions about cure therapies and clinical trials occuring or about to occur in the US and around the world. Have you checked out the clinical trials forum lately, what does Dr. Young personally have to gain by posting this information?
How is it that his forums solely exist to "advance his own theories and ambitions" when the articles posted represent the goals and ambitions of many researchers and scientists?
If Dr. Young were soley on a self serving promotional campaign, every topic would concern only 4AP and MI1, he would remove articles and refuse to discuss other therapies as well as edit or outright remove the opposing opinions of those such as yourself.
Although I respect your dilligence in matters relating to curative research efforts, I think your opinions of Dr. Young are unfounded and unmerited.
08-08-2001, 08:35 AM
Seneca, let me try to answer some of your questions. In a phone call with Jim Kelly over a year ago, I posed some of the same questions to him. Jim told me that he believed the Cando forum was just a front by Wise Young to distract us and lead us in the wrong directions - specifically away from the "real" curative research like Diapulse. This way, the drug companies would be able to continue to profit by selling us drugs and Wise and all the other researchers could continue to collect their research grants, put there feet up on their desks, and just pretend to do research while the cash came in. In no uncertain terms, he told me he believed that I (as moderator of Cando) had pledged to uphold the Cando line of thinking (whatever that was, I don't know because no one ever told me) and was just a stooge for higher powers. He believes people who frequent these forums are just dumb, sheep-like people who will fall for anything that their shepherd-like guru, Wise Young, feeds them. As Jim has so often said in one way or another, "if they had a mind of their own, they would see things his (Jim's) way.
I live in South Dakota on a farm. I have never met Dr. Young or even talked to him on the phone. Obviously, I don't know him personally. I have told Jim Kelly that, however, Jim has accused me of conspiring with Dr. Young, being stupid and not being able to think for myself and on and on and on. I have felt the sting of Jim's baseless accusations more than anyone, except perhaps for Dr. Young himself. And it is exactly that I do think for myself that further enrages the fires in Jim Kelly.
You may recall that Jim had strong beliefs in inosine as a cure, too. When he heard about the studies at BLSI, Jim believed it could be taken orally with no ill effects. He questioned Dr. Young extensively about such a senerio, all the while (like a kid in a candy store beside himself with glee) suggesting he knew a cure that could be taken orally that could be bought over- the-counter cheaply. But, of course, that secret had been and was being suppressed by the drug companies who did not want it to be known so they could continue making their profits. Then Jim announced that inosine was the drug. Jim truly believed that inosine was the "cure," too and took it in massive doses orally. When that didn't work, he even started snorting it to get larger amounts to his brain more quickly. He became a guru himself, advising people on the internet on dosage and where to buy it which led to many getting urinary infections and who know what else.
As I pointed out below, Jim could have made a freedom of information request from the FDA over a year ago. If fact, I told him if he were serious about his agenda, he should do just that and gather all the facts he could. Instead, he has done little else but babble on these forums and a year later he now announces with great tough-guy fanfare, "my next step is to file a freedom of information request." Jim says below, "actions speak louder than words, Bill." But Kelly is a man of words and no action. With all his incessant babbling, he has yet to find a scientist who will conduct a clinical trial on Diapulse or even do so little as file an FOI request with the FDA.
Jim obviously has some emotional problems. He is bitter and angry and believes he is sitting in his wheelchair because Dr. Young deserted his work on Diapulse which Jim is convinced would have been the "cure" just as he believed inosine was the "cure." It is obviously somewhat comforting to him to be able to lay the blame on someone for his condition, but noone should take what Jim says seriously.
08-08-2001, 12:05 PM
for anyone to accuse Dr. Young of any type of conspiracy?
I think that on this topic that both of you (Bill, JK) guys are wasting way too much energy and time dissecting an obviously old topic. http://sci.rutgers.edu/forum/images/smilies/eek.gif http://sci.rutgers.edu/forum/images/smilies/tongue.gif
[This message was edited by Chris on August 08, 2001 at 03:21 PM.]
Chris, I appreciated Bill's post. Imagine, Jim Kelly thinks people who come to this forum are just a bunch of dumb dupes waiting to be led astray by Wise Young. Now this is one incredible theory to add to all of his others! Jim does not think much of us, does he? What an insult to all of us.
I have a theory, too. I believe Jim Kelly is jealous of Dr. Young's knowledge and position in science. I believe Jim Kelly wants to be our guru. He wants us to sit at his feet while he teaches us about the evil drug companies, conflicts of interest, the evil scientists with ties to corporations, conspiracy theories, inosine, Diapulse, etc., that has all worked together to block a cure for sci. He wants to work us to a frenzy until we start acting and talking just like he does.
Well, excuse me Chris, for going on about this, but please note that this thread was started, as it always is, by Jim Kelly. He has tried to intimidate into silence anyone who disagrees with him with an onslaught of childish subterfuge and name calling. I am glad finally a few people like Steven, Seneca, Bill and Scorpion are finally speaking out. They do so at risk of a degrading verbal onslaught from the know it all conspiracy king, James Kelly. I have wanted to say what I felt about Jim Kelly for a long time, but haven't really had the courage until I saw his latest attacks on Dr. Young which Seneca so appropriately re-highlighted. They made me mad when I read them and again when Seneca re-highlighted them. Hey, it feels good to at last speak out! In fact, I can hardly wait for Jim Kelly's attack on me which I am sure he is working on at this very instant.
08-08-2001, 08:46 PM
You guys are a scream!!! Are you having fun today? To tell the truth, I've been off uncovering gobs of additional conspiracies and haven't had the time to check the posts...talk about the mice playing while the cat is away!!! ;< )
However, I DO want to make one comment. (Btw, how you doin, Steve?) Steven, I can honestly say that in a nineteen year railroad career I can definitely tell you the exact details of any work I was involved with that resulted in a major breakdown (either of an individual engine or an entire section of the railraod). I can also tell you the exact details of any hand I had in repairing "trouble" locomotives or untangling an especially "frozen" railroad (due to mud-slides, tornadoes, broken rails, derailments, washouts, signal system failure, etc). You might think I'm exaggerating or pulling your leg, but I'm not. It's just the nature of the beast. In fact, I'm sure that Dr. Young would agree. In the case of the broken locomotives it was a matter of ego. They represented challenges that would either beat me (and stay broken) or I would beat (and see it take a train up the tracks). When I became a dispatcher the stakes were much larger, sometimes life and death (as when warning crews of potential washouts outside Flatonia while similtaneously warning two crews of at tornado east of San-Antone...PLUS stop a train because of a report of a car full of kids stuck on the track. Get my point? It wasn't the kind of stuff you'd easily forget. Are you suggesting that a young research would naturally forget the details of a project he had thought important enough at the outset of his career to deserve his developing it for seven years...and one that stood to possibly vastly improve the outcomes of one of the most terrible conditions that human beings might be forced to face? Believe me, Steven (and I don't mean this sarcastically), if you DO believe this you are truly showing your age.
08-08-2001, 08:51 PM
I see a day earlier won't hurt. Looks like I am the cure forum's moderator except when I'm not here and I hope that to be more now that I have convinced the spouse that traveling and SCI are not incompatible. :-)
As far as the entire Diapulse, Jim, Wise, conspiracies and lost files go....step back, breath deep and think. Personally, I started trashing all those insurance benefit payment statements afer 5 years about 2 years back. My house was being overrun! So I see Wise's point here.
Jim has done a great job researching a non-invasive treatment for wounds and very possibly for spinal cord injuries in the first day or so of injury. Researching anything in the medical field when you aren't schooled in it is not easy. Jim has, last we spoke, gotten as far as working with the president of Diapulse on trying to gain grant money from somewhere (shhhhh) to try and test what something that appears to have worked at one point with cats and, in another, with humans(the Polish were working with people, right, Jim?). At this point I think you may be stuck with two options Jim. A FOIA request to the FDA or, a request to Diapulse's tax accountant, for the results of studies using the Diapulse. If they gave or sold a machine to Wise than that machine was on the company's inventory somehow and left it...somehow. An accountant would reference the loss of a sale item by cross referencing in the debit column as income or a charitable or other write off. He/she should have a copy of any studies based on that machine. You also might have luck just calling the FDA and playing the who's on first game with the operator there. I did it once and it worked. Ask for archived material and study results.
And while I share certain conspiracy theory problems offered by a few writers about Jim, I also know that like Jim and many others, myself included, I will do just about anything to get out of this chair. This does not include dissing those who help us. Every first Friday of the month Wise and a few students and Patricia Morton stick around until all hours answering every question any SCI or family member wants to throw at them. And it's free! Any idea how often anyone does this for free and on a weekend? The last symposium I went to cost me $200. Make that $400, I brought my husband along. And while some doctors and researchers answered many questions, many others left quickly to catch planes back to their labs or went onto other lectures.
And as far as Inosine, I think it has benefits too. But that stuff over the counter could be ground up dried cat pee for all we know. I put a few dollars into some BLSI stock though. I suggest that is a good way to support faster bench to bedside time. These small companies go belly up quickly without cash reserves to bring on the needed people and equipment. And yes, the FDA also has a lot of regulations related to how labs must be run and designed, safety ya know.., that adds a lot to costs.
What I am getting at here is this, I'd like a good, lively exchange of information on this forum. Arguments are fine as long as we argue about research and not personalities. I have met enough researchers now that I hope I can be reasonably fair about my friend Wise and his contributions in the world of neuroscience. Like most friends I do try to seperate their work from their private life. If anyone knows a researcher, physician or caregiver that would like to join us on this forum I would love it and I know most of the other forum readers would too.
Any problems, suggestions, compliments and the like about the cure board please email me directly at DTXNEWS@aol.com. I will try and get things resolved as quickly as possible. Just put CARECURE in the subject line. Oh, and feel free to post anything political about cure research on this forum. I'd also like to hear if anyone gets an OP ED piece published in any newspaper or magazine. We want to brag on our own people here. :-)
08-08-2001, 10:25 PM
OK, James, you're the big, bad cat and we're all little mice? Whatever.
Bottom line is if ANY person or persons with SCI got recovery from the Diapulse machine, where are they and why wouldn't they be telling the world of this miracle of science? I know I would be. Why would anyone with SCI who got recovery from a scientific study or trial therapy be so silent? Why demand info from Wise and not talk to the people who benefitted? And why haven't you filed under the FOIA yet? Why just threaten to do it? Because I'm not buying your explaination of giving Wise a chance to disclose the info on this forum first. It seems to me, if you believe Wise is hiding something, why would you think he would not continue to hide it? Why try and get him to divuldge secrets you believe he's keeping? Instead of insulting our intelligence, why not go get your proof of conspiracy and show it to us?
Well, what do you know, Jim Kelly in his own patronizing manner, says Steven is too young to know anything and Jim is even telling all of us that he knows what people should and shouldn't remember after 13 years. Ok, Jim, Steven is just too young and the rest of us are just stupid and being led around by Dr. Young. And Jim Kelly is the know it all conspirecy expert - the omnipotent BIG CAT - the know it all about everything! The rest of us are just dumb mice. I just want to move this to the top to remind you all about Jim Kelly and what he thinks about all of us who come to this forum. I am still waiting for his attack on me. Ann
08-11-2001, 04:52 PM
Hi Ann, I don't believe we've met (maybe my memory is slipping;< ) Have a nice day!
As someone who has been in a wheelchair since l987, I think that we need to work together and not attack each other because this may be good for "ratings" but it does consume time and wastes energy.
I will try to find some of the answers to your questions about diapulse. I know someone who use to live in Poland and is now living in the United States but does stay in touch with his friends and family and I will ask for his help. This is the letter that I have sent to Gregory.
"The director of this program is named Dr. Weiss, and I believe he passed away in l980. Perhaps some of his colleagues will work at the Warsaw Rehabilitation Clinic. And they might remember this study that took place in l976 through l978. If you are able to make contact with these physicians, I would like to have an e-mail address or mailing address with name. It is also important that they speak English.
"The Diapulse Corporation is located in New York City, and if necessary, I will provide you with a phone number or perhaps, if necessary, I will contact the company.
"I think it is time for the Diapulse Corporation to issue a statement about their machine and its applications for acute spinal cord injuries with humans in Poland at the Warsaw Rehabilitation Clinic. The study started in l976 and ended in September l978. Ninety seven patients with spinal cord injuries were treated."
I do believe that governments and private industries engage in "cover-ups". They also do what is best for their self-interest, which includes "bean counting" and "cost-benefit analysis". I believe that someone gets hit by a train every ninety minutes in the United States and half of them die. There are thousands of intersections, usually out in the country, where there are no gates to stop the cars when crossing the tracks when trains approach. There are many Americans who would like to see a four-quadrant gate that they have in Europe which makes it almost impossible for a car to cross the tracks when the gates are down. People are killed every year and settle out of court for millions of dollars and the railroad industry would rather pay these settlements because it would be too costly to install these gates where they are needed throughout the country. The same is true with the automotive companies when it comes to certain car models or their parts which include seatbelts, Firestone tires, gasoline tanks, airbags, etc. And just this second week of August, 2001, we are learning that airline passengers will continue to be endangered by faulty wiring as the industry leaders think it's too costly to fix what they know is wrong on the commercial jets. Therefore, it may have been possible that the NIH believed it would be too expensive to have Diapulse Machines in every hospital with trained technicians to treat people with acute spinal cord injuries.
If we look at out own government institutions, we know that certain organizations or even buildings require a security clearance. There is also information, which is called "classified", "confidential", "secret", "top-secret", and I even believe that there are one or two levels above top secret, which require a very high security clearance.
I can only think of two medical issues that may be "covered up" or in the one case, they are trying to put the doctor out of business. The first case is the story of Dr. Rife and his microscope. In the early l930's there were newspaper articles that claimed that his frequency device had found cures for fifty diseases, including cancer. There is a ten-page report about his microscope from the Smithsonian Institute, which can be read over the Internet. The second case is about a doctor who treats the most difficult cases of cancer and often has favorable outcomes for the patient. I believe that he is located in Texas and his name is Stanislaus Bryznski (sp?). I apologize about the spelling but I do not have time to go through my E-mail history to find the correct spelling of his name. He has been featured on 20/20 and 60 Minutes. I also know that some of his patients have appeared before Congressional Sub-Committees pleading with our elected officials to let this doctor practice his unconventional treatment for cancer.
While I am proud to be an American, I have to say that our government has been involved in "cover-ups". This is another issue but I will cite some examples. We finally learned about the syphilis experiments on African-American prisoners in Tuskegee. Another example was during World War ll. Some of our army enlisted men were misled but became subject to mustard gas and other chemicals to see how they would react while wearing a new type of protective clothing. The CIA and the army were both involved in LSD experiments without fully informing the subjects. The Pentagon tried to cover up Agent Orange use in Vietnam and the Gulf War Syndrome in Desert Storm.
Finally, on 60 Minutes and episode was featured about one of the largest backyard swimming pool manufacturers and the high rate of spinal cord injuries because of the pool's dimensions. These pools with their diving boards have a short length and steep incline which results in a broken neck if someone dives off the board and travels "long"
instead of high and short. The company would rather settle out of court and have a no-disclosure agreement with the plaintiff instead of correcting the problem. The company continues to insist that its pools are "safe".
08-11-2001, 11:25 PM
Paul, I agree cover-ups have, and will continue to, happen in the USA and all over the world. I also agree money & power are behind these cover-ups and/or conspiracies. I just think if one is going to cry foul, all but accusing an individual, in this case Dr. Young, of a conspiracy, one should have some hard evidence to back up the accusations. Demanding (or requesting) that the person you're accusing of conspiracy give you evidence to prove your accusations is a totally backwards way to convince anyone that your conspiracy theory has any merit. This is how I perceive Jim Kelly's posts on Diapulse, whether that's his intention or not. It's as if he's saying, "I know your hiding information that proves the Diapulse to be an effective treatment for chronic SCI, I just can't prove it because you've suppressed any evidence of it. So, show me the evidence so I can prove to the world I am right."
08-12-2001, 07:04 AM
Hello Jim, Sue, all in this thread....I am curious, what spinal cord injury model was in use at the time that Dr. Young treated these cats with diapulse? Were they "complete?" Is it possible that the animals were incomplete at the time? And are the results written down somewhere? How are you doing with your attempts to get diapulse back into the laboratory? And has the diapulse ever been used on a chronic patient? Jim, I'm certain if you got in touch with the company and told them you are a chronic injury and wanted to see how effective it was on a chronic injury, they might fund it for you! Also, how difficult would it be to build one? Do you have technical specifications for the diapulse?
08-12-2001, 08:04 AM
To answer you questions. If you visit http://members.nerve.com/lusonoffar/AANSpaper.html
you'll see how Dr. Young injured the cat's cords. Other papers linked to this website explain his reasons for inventing a supported weight-drop injury model. But the included link says it succintly. He wanted to make sure the resulting damage led to unremmittant paralysis for at least six months. Therefore the differences between treated and control groups would have significance.
Regarding Diapulse being used on chronics. Dr. Young said in 2000 that he tried Diapulse on a couple chronic patients, but without effect. The interest two research institutions have in Diapulse for chronic injuries is not for Diapulse alone, but rather as an adjunct therapy to improve the performance of other regenerative treatments.
The President of Diapulse is working with both institutions to determine the effectiveness of their device for both chronic and acute applications. I'll let you know when I hear anything.