Received my new Marvel M1 chair............

[BobMach]

and its a Funky Monkey fer sure !!!!! (compared to the old standard of course) almost got'er dialed in, tomorrow im gonna take her out and see if shes a Gorilla or a Chimp. Dont have a whole lot to say YET but one thing is for sure, the craftsmanship that went into the building and designing of this chair is superb!!!! received it on Monday and have been tweaking the settings, shock ride, heights, yada, yada, yada ever since. it feels better everyday. stay tuned riders.......

[BobMach]

First day of real all out Marvel wheelchair testing.............

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j312/bobmach/Chair2.jpg

Fridays, my regular produce market, BJ's Wholesale Club, Grocery Store, Wal-Mart and on this particular Friday, Home Depot shopping loop. 5 stores, 5 different locations all on different parking lot and floor surfaces over the course of several hours. My car transfers are like this, I open up the side doors of my ford conversion van and transfer in (rear captains chairs have been removed) spin my chair around and normally grab the rigidizer bar and pull right up and in. A bit of a pain with the Marvel as there is no handle in the back but this is apparently on the fabrication horizon. For now I just grab by the bottom portion on the seat back, up and in it went. This will not be a problem for those that break down their chairs for cars. First stop was a farmers market for a produce run and some free food sample grazing, ruff parking lot and uneven side walk entrance ways etc. Turned the shock off because I knew I was going to be carrying a heavy load with about 30+lbs of produce (35 actually with a gal of Cider, weighed it when I got home). I was very interested to see how the Funky Monkey rode with 30 lbs in my lap and no shock. I was concerned how the quick dis-connect front caster wing would react as I added weight, would there be any flex or sag. To my relief it felt like any ordinary rigid chair and noticed no difference from the time I unloaded at check out and reloaded to leave. I was quite surprised, the chair was still very responsive, no problems riding with the weight on my lap as I zig zagged at high speed through the crowd of Delaware hillbillies making my rounds through the market (No hillbillies and or senior citizens were harmed during this hi speed test).. Only real inconvience was my lower legs being pressed up against the wing carrying the 30 lbs of produce, they became a little sore...........but I have a solution in mind................off to Home Depot for solutions.

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j312/bobmach/Chair3.jpg

Home Depot parking lot is a nightmare, real ruff stuff, wheelchair pot holes etc, sooooooooooo, on with the shock. The shock was nice, smooth, soft and responsive as I hit uneven rises and holes which I didn’t avoid for testing purposes and into the store I went. Picked up some industrial strength Velcro and looked at some very thin rubber backed, very low profile carpet runner material on a roll, $2.87 a ft for a might need future caster wing Mod. The smooth hard concrete floors of Home Depot were like Talladega Speedway to me, was just a blur to the other shoppers. Casters and Caster Wing worked flawlessly at blazing speeds and hard sharp turns into the isles. The first thing I noticed on long runs/speed was, this chair doesn’t roll, it glides. Very Pleased. Next stop, grocery store for shock ride/smoothness test ……

My local grocery store has a tiled floor in the produce section that feels like your rolling over railroad tracks every foot. This is where I wanted to test the shock qualities and jump off a curb. Had the shock on, fully open then around and around and around I went, reaching behind me adjusting the shock and the rebound as I did laps. It was quite easy to reach back and under once you find the switch and know where it is for adjustments. Increased /decreased shock & opened/closed the shock lever and could feel the difference in travel and how the ride over the tiles had changed. It was still bumpy but you could feel the softness and hardness change with the adjustments. The only thing I am still trying to figure out/playing with is the rebound adjustments or speed at which the shock travels back to full. This I can feel if I pull on the hand rims but not so much as I am riding. I made need to play with this on a different and or rougher surface. Made sure I hopped off the curb on the way out, was so pleased with the soft landing I went back and did it again. Nice............off to Wal-Mart for a fun run…..

Wal-Mart, where I like to get my fun run (one of my greatest joys in life is scaring the crap of people when I hit the end of an isle at speed as I cross the crossing isle or make blistering LH/RH turns) and look for a small backpack. Found some packs, did some fits and out I went, to the relief of the store manager. It was a fun day.

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j312/bobmach/Chair1.jpg

First week overview:

As Dale stated in an earlier post, all the weight is in the center of the chair and under your arse. The chair really does glide, with and without the shock in the “”on” position. My ramp into the house is little steeper then it should be and I did not notice any bobb when I push up the ramp which apparently is a concern with some suspension parts. I have been trying different air pressures in the shock and have found it very manageable make changes. I keep the shock set most of the time equivalent to total weight of me and my heavy Jay2 cushion or slightly under which is right around 185 – 195 total give or take a few Lbs. or depending what I am doing. The shock does make for a very nice soft ride.

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j312/bobmach/100_0697.jpg

The Caster Wing: Wasn’t quite sure about this after the first couple of days but its growing on me. I was so used to all the footplate room on my previous chairs. Being an incomplete SCI, I move my feet around a bit, and don’t need my feet tucked in and secure. The wing should be a benefit to those who do need to have their feet secured in the foot plate area, I’m just not one of them. The problem I have is large feet, size 11 ½ - 12, they always seem get to where I’m heading a few mins before the rest of me does. On past chairs I always flipped the foot plate around to the front of me, because of the downward rear angle I cannot do this with this foot plate, something to speak to Marvel about. Also had problems with my legs resting against the wing which annoyed me so I went looking for a solution. Right now I have my old foam/vinyl frame protectors wrapped around each side of the caster wing and it has made a tremendous difference and will SportAid a new pair(See Photo). I have always added frame protectors to my chairs in the past so why not on this chair. I’m also thinking of lining the inside of the Caster Wing with something softer in the future, say a thick felt pad, or the strip of the thin carpet runner material I mentioned earlier. This is something I’m going to keep thinking about for MY NEEDS. One thing is for sure, the top of the wing is a great foot rest. The independent suspension feel from the torsion bushing in the frame for the Caster Wing ROCKS. It does cause a slight corner lean when you reach down to the front corner/side to pick something up from the floor but I’m now aware of it and grab my other wheel for support if needed. Combined with the shock it helps create a smooth gliding ride, a good analogy would be like driving an expensive European touring car. The scissor brakes are some the best I have ever encountered, if they were spring loaded they would be perfect. They do have a some what sharp point at the end as one of my thumbs can attest. I now make sure they are tucked away (mine don’t always tuck away freely because of the pack hanging below my seat, will be getting a smaller one very soon).

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j312/bobmach/Feet1.jpg

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j312/bobmach/Wing.jpg

Back rest and adjustments: Back rest is nice, easily adjustable and will be even nicer if they go ahead with this new adjusting knob they have talked about. The back rest does take away some of the seat depth for my taste but this is being addressed with an extension bracket, this probably will not be needed for everyone. The back folds down with a quick pull of the release pin. The height is easily adjustable and mine is set to 11” (I like a low back rest) I would actually like it a tad lower but this is the lowest setting in order to fold the seat past the CF side guards and not have the back rest post above the top of the back rest. No biggie, I can live with it. It’s taken a few days and many adjustments to get the feel I’ve been looking for and will probably make a few more before I’m done. Even though I thought I knew what settings I needed there are always tweaks to make for a better feel. So far every adjustment I have made has made the chair feel that much better to me. I’ve spend most of my adult life around speedways and MOPAR muscle cars so turning wrenches, tweaking and solving problems is not an issue for me. I would highly suggest ordering the fenders and I have done so. My cushion is tall and I plan on getting an even thicker cushion which makes the current side guards ineffective. This may not be a problem for others who are say 15-16” wide seaters and can adjust out their camber tubes. I on the other hand am a big fella and need a 17 wide minimum and have a very narrow sliding glass door I need to navigate through daily.

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j312/bobmach/BlackPak.jpg

There were some concerns on another post about back packs which made me chuckle but I went ahead and addressed those also and attached photos. I don’t normally carry a pack because I don’t like the swinging, banging or the weight behind me. I did attach a small pack and may just keep it for a small tool kit and the shock pump which fits tightly behind the back rest. It fits nicely under the back rest cushion and it will help it stay put. The transfer handles although I don’t use them to transfer do make a handy day pack hanger. One thing I do miss is a location for my Corona holder and that is a problem I will have solved very shortly. So with all that said I’m digging the chair so far. It’s a real nice ride and overall so far I’m very pleased. As with all new chairs there is some adjustment time and tweaks that need be made, my Marvel is no different and I expected as much. Durability and smooth ride is what I was looking for and I think the ride portion has been covered. Before i forget, the people at Marvel have been very approachable and fast to react to my needs and concerns, Kudos to you all. Only time will tell about durability but I think as long as I don’t do any pool riding or big rock leaps I think the Funky Monkey will hang. So far I thinks its definitely a adolescent Gorilla with room to grow.

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j312/bobmach/BudBoy.jpg

The Lord of the Household seems to like the chair too.

[stephen212]

Thanks for the write-up, Bob. Your application of the frame protector on the caster wing assembly was very clever (pressure contact is a concern, especially for those of with no sensation) but I'd rather not have to start modifying things -- my preference is for factory perfection.

I had an orange hair lap tabby just like your little dude. :D

[nia adha]

Hey bob...
i'm ordering a marvel wheelchair as well, but still deciding on the accessories.
would u mind giving your full spec?

[BobMach]

Hey bob...
i'm ordering a marvel wheelchair as well, but still deciding on the accessories.
would u mind giving your full spec?

i ordered my Marvel with, brakes, transfer handles, fenders and the standard Tempest wheels.
i would suggest you also order a set of the Tundra Off Road Wheels as an extra wheel set with your standard Tempest wheels so you can switch when you want to go off pavement/off road wheeling.......i plan on ordering a set in the future. good luck with your Marvel order.

[Rock517]

How do the transfer handles work? Those must be the little knobs sticking out from the end of the seat. Do they come out or something or just give you something to grab to manuever the chair around?

[BobMach]

How do the transfer handles work? Those must be the little knobs sticking out from the end of the seat. Do they come out or something or just give you something to grab to manuever the chair around?

they bolt onto the corner of the seat pan and can be adjusted inward or outward depending on how far you want them to stick out. i like'em but dont use them to transfer, some habits are just hard to break and i transfer the old fashion way, with the seat. they do make great grab handles and thats also how i reach out to grab my chair to pull it towards me or push away during transfers.

[smokey]

Cool chair and wayyy cool cat. Your cat looks like it's smiling and showing it teeth! Great review of your new Marvel chair too. I think we all appreciate the detailed information you provided. Thanks.

Here is a pic of my 20 lb. Maine Coon cat....he's pretty cool too;

http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm50/bowhalen/IMG_0067.jpg

[BobMach]

Cool chair and wayyy cool cat. Your cat looks like it's smiling and showing it teeth! Great review of your new Marvel chair too. I think we all appreciate the detailed information you provided. Thanks.

Here is a pic of my 20 lb. Maine Coon cat....he's pretty cool too;

http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm50/bowhalen/IMG_0067.jpg

thanks Smokey and MrBuddyBoyCat thanks you too. we share the chair, he's in it when im not.
i felt the review was needed. i sat on the fence on this one for awhile and after finally talking to jeff he said the right things that made me pull the trigger. it was a big leap for me NOT to go with the big fellas. i figured there are also others sitting on the fence deciding which side to jump on, this was for them.

[stephen212]

Cool chair and wayyy cool cat. Your cat looks like it's smiling and showing it teeth! Great review of your new Marvel chair too. I think we all appreciate the detailed information you provided. Thanks.

Here is a pic of my 20 lb. Maine Coon cat....he's pretty cool too;

http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm50/bowhalen/IMG_0067.jpg

Is that the "tight pussy" you refer to in your profile?

[jadams]

@BobMach

Thanks very much for the review - we're super happy that it tested well, and really appreciate you spending what must have been a huge chunk of time putting your experience down in writing.

It's been an enormously validating experience to have spent so much time in the design phase of this effort - going back and forth in design review meetings with the nitpicky engineers at Cervelo seemed like slow death at the time, but it was totally worth it.

To finally see a bunch of chairs going out and getting under people's butts and being used, and performing in the way that we hoped it would is amazing for us.

We really appreciate all the feedback, and will continue to listen and respond as best we can - even though Christian and I both use chairs, which gives us a head start on understanding the issues, there's no way we can ever presume to understand all the unique needs out there.

Please remember - this is our very first kick at the can - there's lots more to come!

[fuentejps]

great review bob. im thinking of buying one next year.

[BobMach]

@BobMach

Thanks very much for the review - we're super happy that it tested well, and really appreciate you spending what must have been a huge chunk of time putting your experience down in writing.

It's been an enormously validating experience to have spent so much time in the design phase of this effort - going back and forth in design review meetings with the nitpicky engineers at Cervelo seemed like slow death at the time, but it was totally worth it.

To finally see a bunch of chairs going out and getting under people's butts and being used, and performing in the way that we hoped it would is amazing for us.

We really appreciate all the feedback, and will continue to listen and respond as best we can - even though Christian and I both use chairs, which gives us a head start on understanding the issues, there's no way we can ever presume to understand all the unique needs out there.

Please remember - this is our very first kick at the can - there's lots more to come!

my pleasure and you boys keep up the great work. my cat and my butt thank you. good luck in Atlanta.........BobMach

[BobMach]

great review bob. im thinking of buying one next year.

thanks dude, we're diggin it.

[RJP]

I am awaiting mine as well. It is stuck at UPS but I am waiting patiently for it. I too will give it the whole once over I dont know if I will give it a detailed review as Bob bt I will try my best

[-scott-]

great review bob. im thinking of buying one next year.
once I have some time after a slew of assignments this month I'll get some further info on mine together... it's set up real close to your specs now. I pulled the mountain bike tires off & lowered it a little.

nice writeup Bob! thanks for taking the time for this thread.
:beer2:

[nia adha]

i ordered my Marvel with, brakes, transfer handles, fenders and the standard Tempest wheels.
i would suggest you also order a set of the Tundra Off Road Wheels as an extra wheel set with your standard Tempest wheels so you can switch when you want to go off pavement/off road wheeling.......i plan on ordering a set in the future. good luck with your Marvel order.
i'm thinking about the armrest.would the fender strong enuf to help with the push ups?because if its strong enuf, i dun think i ever need the armrest...its just in the way when i roll hard...

[DaleB]

I use the tires to push up on. Much sturdier than any arm rests will ever be :)

[nia adha]

whats the different between tunda n tempest?i have submitted my order to the university.i ordered the 25" tempest wheel with titanium flange. (it looks cool).

@dale : my hand is short.i need something higher than my tire...^_^

[fuentejps]

once i have some time after a slew of assignments this month i'll get some further info on mine together... It's set up real close to your specs now. I pulled the mountain bike tires off & lowered it a little.

Nice writeup bob! Thanks for taking the time for this thread.
:beer2:

that would be great. Pics w/ u in it asz well so i can see how u r sitting. Thx

[BobMach]

whats the different between tunda n tempest?i have submitted my order to the university.i ordered the 25" tempest wheel with titanium flange. (it looks cool).

@dale : my hand is short.i need something higher than my tire...^_^

the tempest wheels are the thin one inch everyday tires and the tundra are the big bad to the bone mountain bike tires. they have a both a mountain knobby tire and a smooth tread tundra tire avail. the hubs are designed to use the same axle and the tires are much wider for off road use, almost 2 inches ? a set of the tundra and tempest would be nice if the had the $$$ for both

[DaleB]

[...] -- my preference is for factory perfection.
[...]

Is this possible? I dunno...may be setting yourself up for disappointment! I think a little customization is needed to perfect just about anything. Like your current ride's custom made seat pan, off-brand forks, and custom made D's lock bracket. :) All add up to a sweet ride, with lots of TLC and thought into making it the best it can be.

[nia adha]

Is this possible? I dunno...may be setting yourself up for disappointment! I think a little customization is needed to perfect just about anything. Like your current ride's custom made seat pan, off-brand forks, and custom made D's lock bracket. :) All add up to a sweet ride, with lots of TLC and thought into making it the best it can be.
agreed! :mega:

[BobMach]

Is this possible? I dunno...may be setting yourself up for disappointment! I think a little customization is needed to perfect just about anything. Like your current ride's custom made seat pan, off-brand forks, and custom made D's lock bracket. :) All add up to a sweet ride, with lots of TLC and thought into making it the best it can be.

i agree, i dont think a perfect chair from the "factory" exists.... you gotta pimp your ride

[stephen212]

OK, I give, I'll surrender the notion of the Platonic ideal wheelchair direct from the manufacturer.

With respect to my ZR, there's no (good) reason that I can think of that they can't offer CF seat pans instead of crappy aluminum ones, which would have saved me time and money. Same goes with locking hub brakes, it's not exactly breakthrough technology anymore. If they can't or don't want to offer D's (or SureLocks), then why not task their mastermind engineers to create the TiLite alternative? The demand exists, and more demand would be created were they to offer something superior to crappy scissor locks.

With respect to the Marvel -- BTW, mine is stuck somewhere in Buffalo awaiting FDA clearance (it's an international thing; that, or the chair is getting the swine flu vaccination) -- if the caster wing assembly geometry poses a pressure sore risk, as has been suggested here by some, then that needs to be addressed upfront. In this instance, anyway, it's not a matter of pimping.

And not to blow smoke up Jeff A.'s butt, but if Marvel continues to be as creative and customer-oriented as they are now, I predict that in time they will offer enough options to come much closer to approximating that Platonic ideal than the Big 3.

[missionron]

Im wondering if youo have to use their wheels or will any work? I have perfectly good off road wheels,but dont know if the axles will work. Im close to pulling the trigger on a new chair,and the money is out of my pocket, so i want to get it right the first time! I liked your review,very much. You brought up some good points. I think a wheelchair should at least come with a pair of BRAKES! and upgrade if you want,but to have to add brakes as an OPTION kinda burns me a bit :P Anyway, im lucky enough to have one very close to me to demo and could pick it up any time i want (ill do it next week on monday) So well see how it goes. btw Im a T12 comp since nov 1995 Happy New Year to anyone who sees this!

[BobMach]

ron i think as long as your hubs are 1.87 the Marvel axles will work and i have already bought a set of the new Sun Fusion16 wheels with Marathon Plus tires so i could have ready to go spares. The new Fusions swapped right out with the Marvel axles without any adjustments. I have also added FrogLeg 1.5 soft roll casters & so far the Marvel accepts after market parts quite nicely. Jeff is usually up there lurking some where and im sure he and or other Marvel users will chim in soon. Good luck with the chair, i think you will be pleased. The Boyzz up North never leave the drawing board seem to be constantly improving on their Marvelous Chair.

[jadams]

@bobmach - thanks for the props, much appreciated. (btw, Pearl is in the shop for some tlc - I'll send some photos to you when she gets out - discs on the front, a 4 barrel carb, and some electrics - alternator to replace the generator, and maybe a spit and polish on the chrome/paint - you would have died to see the cars in Havana - www.casiestewart.com (http://www.casiestewart.com) has some photos of the oldies we saw)

@missionron - the axle length issue has two factors - the hub measurement, and the axle insert measurement - so when you're going from one wheel set to another with the same frame, you should be ok - ie. the Marvel hubs are the same from bearing to bearing as both Sun and Spinergy everyday (not sport) - but this only helps if you're changing the wheels on the same frame.

Hmmm......I kind of pride myself on my ability to communicate, but I just reread that, and I'm a bit underimpressed with myself.

Take two:

Say you're using a TiLite, a Quickie, or a Top end frame that currently has Spinergy's or Sun wheels on it......the Rogue Tempest or Tundra wheels will work, with the axles that your current wheels use.

Say you're using a Marvel M1.....you can put Sun or Spinergy everydays on it and use the axles that came with the M1.

Say you're using a TiLite with Spinergy everydays, and you order an M1 that comes with the Tempest wheels - the Spinergy wheels will work, but only with the Marvel axles.

This is because almost all of the manufacturers use different length axle inserts (the steel piece that the axle goes into that is part of the axle tube of the frame).

Take three: Call me at the shop if you need more/better explanation.

@ All - We're doing what we can to make ourselves compatible, but we're limited a little by the lack of industry standard. We're likely going to pick one of the other manufacturers to match our inserts with in the next short while.

One of our frustrations is that there is really no engineering advantage to having a long axle tube insert (which is why ours is really short compared to the other manufacturers), and there is a small weight advantage to having a shorter axle (which is why ours is really short).

But we really do believe in compatibility, and we really do believe that if we work with the other manufacturers (even if they won't work with us), that at the end of the day, the people that have to have these things under their butts will see the benefit of being able to pick and choose the best mix of equipment for them, so I promise that we're going to keep banging our heads against the compatibility wall (it's what I'm best at doing anyway).

We're actually getting some good and very welcome collaboration from a few of the aftermarket folks - Todd at ADI has been great, and we should have some stuff to show off in a very short while, and we've been putting Blax pushrings on a few of our last builds - Matt has been awesome too.

And not that I expect ANY sympathy, because I just spent a week in the sun, but there was a 52 degree (Celcius) difference between where I was this morning and where I am now.

[SCI_OTR]

One of our frustrations is that there is really no engineering advantage to having a long axle tube insert (which is why ours is really short compared to the other manufacturers), and there is a small weight advantage to having a shorter axle (which is why ours is really short).

There is also less axle to protrude from the wheels when you pull them off. That decreases the chance of getting that signature grease stamp © on one's clothing or car interior when handling the wheels.

[stephen212]

There is also less axle to protrude from the wheels when you pull them off. That decreases the chance of getting that signature grease stamp © on one's clothing or car interior when handling the wheels.


In my early wheelchair-using years I used to grease up my axles and then someone explained that it was completely unnecessary save maybe a drop of lubrication at the ball end (balls, I don't need to tell anyone, should be lubricated). So with that bit of advice/wisdom, I've ceased having signature grease stamps.

[SCI_OTR]

In my early wheelchair-using years I used to grease up my axles and then someone explained that it was completely unnecessary save maybe a drop of lubrication at the ball end (balls, I don't need to tell anyone, should be lubricated). So with that bit of advice/wisdom, I've ceased having signature grease stamps.
I wipe mine down occasionally, but keep them pretty dry myself. I think the grease migrates out of the wheel bearings.

I dare you to touch the tip of your axle against your clothes. No, I double dare you!

[totoL1]

In my early wheelchair-using years I used to grease up my axles and then someone explained that it was completely unnecessary save maybe a drop of lubrication at the ball end (balls, I don't need to tell anyone, should be lubricated). So with that bit of advice/wisdom, I've ceased having signature grease stamps.

I don`t lubricated with grease either, but everytime i clean my chair i put a bit of liquid vaseline it`s only for help the axle of the wheel to go out & in when i`m picking the chair into the car, with the grease ever you will get dirty your clothes, but not with this vaseline.

[MarkPals]

Whats up with this Harely Street Psychotherapist? If you can't even spell your link right, maybe you shouldn't be flooding the board. Just my 2 cents.

[jadams]

In my early wheelchair-using years I used to grease up my axles and then someone explained that it was completely unnecessary save maybe a drop of lubrication at the ball end (balls, I don't need to tell anyone, should be lubricated). So with that bit of advice/wisdom, I've ceased having signature grease stamps.

Not entirely good advice - anytime a piece of metal moves while touching another piece of metal, lubrication is required. Having said that, you can often get away with not using it, but it doesn't mean it's the right way to do it. There are also metals that are naturally lubricious - like brass or lead, but neither the inserts or the axles fall into that category.

Bottom line, if you're only lubricating the balls, you're missing the most important part.

[BobMach]

Not entirely good advice - anytime a piece of metal moves while touching another piece of metal, lubrication is required. Having said that, you can often get away with not using it, but it doesn't mean it's the right way to do it. There are also metals that are naturally lubricious - like brass or lead, but neither the inserts or the axles fall into that category.

Bottom line, if you're only lubricating the balls, you're missing the most important part.

"Bottom line, if you're only lubricating the balls, you're missing the most important part".

LMBO, how true, how true.

"you would have died to see the cars in Havana - www.casiestewart.com has some photos of the oldies we saw)"...yes, the cubans luv their old chevy and ford 4 door sedans turned taxis.

[-scott-]

Bottom line, if you're only lubricating the balls, you're missing the most important part.
http://i170.photobucket.com/albums/u260/LinbackerU_31/random/MichaelScott.jpg

look for an email from me in a bit...

[stephen212]

I was wondering how long it was going to take for someone to alley-oop the straight line I was feeding.

[jadams]

Nobody appreciates the straight man anymore........thanks for the lob-ball(s).