Well, maybe I won't be building a house

[NoDecafPlz]

Now the guy at the development won't get back to me after I sent some ADA info, no returned emails or calls. :mad::(

Suggestions?

[rcechser]

Not to nit pick but building a house and buying a condo are too different animals. I believe the last thread you were buying a condo, you are picking out flooring, cabinets, etc not siding where a driveway goes where or not you want a walkout basement etc, this is not just for you but the other guy who thinks he built a condo. Sorry for the rant. Good Luck

[NoDecafPlz]

Sorry, thought I updated.

Found a development that is offering three bedroom ranch homes BUILT for $110,000. Spent an hour there with my agent, gave info, got the guys card, told them I was pre-approved and putting 20% down. Went over the fact that the only real change would be roll-in shower in one of the two bathrooms. He asked for some ada info, sent to him now nada.

Yes I will keep calling but can they refuse me?


QUOTE=rcechser;1012270]Not to nit pick but building a house and buying a condo are too different animals. I believe the last thread you were buying a condo, you are picking out flooring, cabinets, etc not siding where a driveway goes where or not you want a walkout basement etc, this is not just for you but the other guy who thinks he built a condo. Sorry for the rant. Good Luck[/QUOTE]

[rcechser]

Joe, he should,you will have to pay for the changes, I would not bug him to much, is there a lot of house selling in the development? He could be just looking into the ADA thing or (he is busy doing our stuff is he using a realtor) and has not gotten a chance to yet, is there enough room on the plan to put in a roll-in shower without taking out any walls. What else are you looking for ramp, ( wood or concrete) kitchen, light fixtures, kitchen cabinets, etc

Also Joe I noticed you went there with your agent it is always best to have him contact the builder.

[NoDecafPlz]

Nothing additional I swear. Everything else is already level. No walla busted down or anything.


Joe, he should,you will have to pay for the changes, I would not bug him to much, is there a lot of house selling in the development? He could be just looking into the ADA thing or (he is busy doing our stuff is he using a realtor) and has not gotten a chance to yet, is there enough room on the plan to put in a roll-in shower without taking out any walls. What else are you looking for ramp, ( wood or concrete) kitchen, light fixtures, kitchen cabinets, etc

Also Joe I noticed you went there with your agent it is always best to have him contact the builder.

[Rustyjames]

For most developer's, any deviation to their typical construction documents (drawings and specifications) throws a monkey wrench into their "system."

[NoDecafPlz]

For most developer's, any deviation to their typical construction documents (drawings and specifications) throws a monkey wrench into their "system."

But if the roll-in shower was the only deviation?? Maybe the doorways an inch or two bigger?

[Van Quad]

Better to find out now how he treats his customers. Move on, there is no shortage of motivated builders in today's financial environment. It's a buyer's market.

[chick]

You said, already "BUILT" ranch homes. Have they already been built, or they are planned to be built and then sold?

If still in construction, I don't see why you can't work with them (or others) to make the necessary changes per your specs/needs. It may cost you additional monies tho. If these developers are un or less than willing to work with you, maybe best bet to go with another with whom you can have a more open communication and a better relationship with. That is, if you haven't signed anything or put any $$ down.

If already built, you can check out the place and do the mods you need, at your own cost, if the plan allows for such mods.

[NoDecafPlz]

Sorry, I meant the plots/slabs are ready everything is set to rock and roll, five months and done. No money and nothing signed but no one is getting back to me. Called agent today and she said she would try to set up another face to face. :(


You said, already "BUILT" ranch homes. Have they already been built, or they are planned to be built and then sold?

If still in construction, I don't see why you can't work with them (or others) to make the necessary changes per your specs/needs. It may cost you additional monies tho. If these developers are un or less than willing to work with you, maybe best bet to go with another with whom you can have a more open communication and a better relationship with. That is, if you haven't signed anything or put any $$ down.

If already built, you can check out the place and do the mods you need, at your own cost, if the plan allows for such mods.

[Aliya]

If the house is not built there is no reason he can't make a few changes but it will probably cost you extra. Eight years ago when the subdivision that I live in was being built I just asked the builder if I could have a roll in shower instead of a bathtub he said sure but it cost me a little extra for the tile work and I lost part of a walk in closet. I made a few changes in the kitchen cabinet but there was no extra charge for that since the cabinets had not been built yet. In fact the only thing I did pay extra for was the shower the builder made other suggestions/changes and since the house wasn't built yet it didn't cost extra. He graded to the front door so there wouldn't be a step, poured a small ramp in the garage, lowered light switches, raised electrical outlets and made all doorways 36". I didn't have any ADA info at the time and neither did the builder we just played it by ear and the house turned out pretty good considering we had no ADA info. The cabinet maker had built ADA cabinets so he took care of that part.

If you haven't bought the house yet think I would find a different development with a builder that is willing to work with you.

[fuentejps]

You have to be firm, bug the shit out of them, they arent building like they were 2-3 yrs ago..are u doing a const to perm loan or large chunk down w/ 1 end loan.

You are doing exactly what i did. Believe i was up their ass, dont wait for your realtor to call anyone. We are both in ohio as well.

Couple oither things, anything you can get done after above and beyond besides the big stuff, roll in showr, counters lower, fuse box etc, do on your own. That builder will charge you like twice the price

[NoDecafPlz]

Just strictly an end loan. What "smaller stuff?"

You have to be firm, bug the shit out of them, they arent building like they were 2-3 yrs ago..are u doing a const to perm loan or large chunk down w/ 1 end loan.

You are doing exactly what i did. Believe i was up their ass, dont wait for your realtor to call anyone. We are both in ohio as well.

Couple oither things, anything you can get done after above and beyond besides the big stuff, roll in showr, counters lower, fuse box etc, do on your own. That builder will charge you like twice the price

[Chris Chappell]

Agreed with John, be assertive and persistent. If you're not getting the appropriate response then move on, it's a buyer's market.

I did (hired/paid) all of my own mods. It's doubtful that, unless you get a very conscientious builder, that you'll get what you want / design. I guess that I wouldn't depend on them doing it right unless you were there to monitor and supervise their progress. Glad to hear about Aliya above but I think that situation is pretty rare.

[Rustyjames]

But if the roll-in shower was the only deviation?? Maybe the doorways an inch or two bigger?

I know it doesn't seem like a big deal but you're talking structural changes that will probably have to be reviewed by an engineer and submitted. When a developer submits construction documents to the local building department they can't deviate from the plan. Before a builder even cuts a stick of wood or drive a nail there's a lot of hoops for the builder to jump through.

[fuentejps]

just strictly an end loan. What "smaller stuff?"

then u r doing exactly what i did.
Ok
1. In your purch agreement state extra inspections at every phase.
2. Little things= lower fuse box, raised outlets, shut off gas/water w/in reach.
3. Roll in shower. 2 ways tiled in showr or one large one piece unit[i think mine was like 2800-3k. I opted for 1 piece pre fabn unit.
4.have your own ramp done in garage- much better and cheaper
5. Any upgrades that deviate from the models will cost way to much. Example- our condos price included carpet and lanolium. Pergo would have costed a tone to have them do.
6. All 36in doors, even closets


anything i can do just ask, i did the exacty same thing 2 yrs ago.

Above all, crawl up their ass and stay there. Your house your money. I stepped on so many toes it was rediculous, but my house was built how i wanted it.

[Eileen]

Just be really careful, as this seems like an odd time for a builder to be going ahead on a home building project in general. The market is flooded with real estate, and a lot of builders are having hard times getting the loans they need to complete construction. I would hate to see you give him a deposit and then find out he is bankrupt.

[NoDecafPlz]

Awesome thanks!

Yes, I already told them I am not interested in any upgrades, however,


I was wondering what a level concrete patio and ramp into the garage might cost. Convenience does have a price, what should I be expecting price wise for a concrete patio and ramp into/from garage?

then u r doing exactly what i did.
Ok
1. In your purch agreement state extra inspections at every phase.
2. Little things= lower fuse box, raised outlets, shut off gas/water w/in reach.
3. Roll in shower. 2 ways tiled in showr or one large one piece unit[i think mine was like 2800-3k. I opted for 1 piece pre fabn unit.
4.have your own ramp done in garage- much better and cheaper
5. Any upgrades that deviate from the models will cost way to much. Example- our condos price included carpet and lanolium. Pergo would have costed a tone to have them do.
6. All 36in doors, even closets


anything i can do just ask, i did the exacty same thing 2 yrs ago.

Above all, crawl up their ass and stay there. Your house your money. I stepped on so many toes it was rediculous, but my house was built how i wanted it.

[Doorman]

Awesome thanks!

Yes, I already told them I am not interested in any upgrades, however,


I was wondering what a level concrete patio and ramp into the garage might cost. Convenience does have a price, what should I be expecting price wise for a concrete patio and ramp into/from garage?It depends on how many inches the rise is.

[fuentejps]

we just hired a contractor to do a stamped patio flush off the rear sliding glass door. we had 5 estimates all referalls. from 8-12 per sq ft stamped and colored, thats all excavation, rebar etc. our guy is doing it at 9. we are his 1st job of the year, later in the spring the more it costs because they get booked.

dont go cement ramp, hurts potential resale. u want something removable......we had option of basement we went slab, in ohio basements r basements, when its appraised we add roughly 1000 , dont care if its solid marble, in ohio its still a basement. [when im doing loans i hear ppl bitch constantly about how their house should appraise 10k higher due to full finished basement, doesnt happen]

in our condo, once the ramp is removed theres nothing really noticable that says accessible, we are more universal design.

when i built a friend of the family who is an architect whom specializes in ada compliance helped me.




Awesome thanks!

Yes, I already told them I am not interested in any upgrades, however,


I was wondering what a level concrete patio and ramp into the garage might cost. Convenience does have a price, what should I be expecting price wise for a concrete patio and ramp into/from garage?

[rdf]

Buy it by Dec 1st and you'll get an $8,000 tax break if it's your primary residence. It's part of the stimulus plan passed last month. If you pay no income taxes, then from what I read, you still get it. Uncle Sam will just cut you a check for 8 grand. Only applies to homes purchased this year up until Dec 1st. Notice it's not Dec 31st, but the 1st.

As to additions and decks and patios, I'd do it for you Joe, but you're a philly fan ;)

Seriously, don't forget about the tax break. You can even apply it to your 2008 earnings/taxes, whichever will work better for you financially...but you'd have to file the form to defer doing your taxes for 2008 via the IRS if you want to use your 2008 income as the base for the tax break. Good luck buddy.

[NoDecafPlz]

Thanks guys. Ok, so an after market ramp from say spin life is gonna be the way to go if at all possible, that is if they can't do everything level.

Hey, is it easier for them to just do everything level?

[fuentejps]

Depends on code. I couldnt here, because of water drainage etc. I have 1 step into frt door then one step in garage w/ ramp.

Get this, i approved the plans prior to my foundation being poured, i changed the layout of entire mast bath, long story short they poured w/ the toilet stack on the other side of the bathroom, where it originally was. Not where i approved it....i caught it on 1st walk through, had to be jackhammered up and moved then repour that area. They offered to do anything and everything, i said hell no, bust dig it up and move it. The forman was let go the following week.......

Always stand your ground

[Scott Pruett]

if it were me, i wouldn't label anything "accessible" or even push "universal design."

"barrier-free" is the way to go, imo.

agreed w/ the others... be firm. you're the boss. you write the checks.

oh, and get everything in writing.

[NoDecafPlz]

Thanks Scott and belated congrats. She's lovely! Luv dimple!!!

[lynnifer]

Yes, beautiful couples photo, Scott - you guys are going to have cute babies!!!

I couldn't express or agree more with GET IT IN WRITING.

[Scott Pruett]

:beer2:

[metronycguy]

decaf, i would be extremely careful about putting any money down or buying anything mew or even in a new unfinished community.
'there are so many builders going bankrupt, and they will take your down payment today and go belly up next week.
also in new development if the builder has problems, like they all did this year, the amenities are built last and they will never get finished, so instead of tennis courts and swimming pools you have a pile of dirt.
sidewalks are put in last many times also.
if the development is finished and full, but if the people paid more than the house is worth, which would be any development in the metro area finished in the last 5 years, the chance of neighbors foreclosing is huge.
your value dives, and you also have to pick up the common charges that they are not paying.
the only place i would buy in this are is in a old established neighborhood with most of the houses single family and not flippers, people that have a connection to the community, that rules out out all these new developments.
who is the builder??

[NoDecafPlz]

Its MI homes in Maineville OH. The community is 85% finished. All the parks courts, common areas etc are complete and have been for approx 7 years. There are literally less than 20 plots left to build anywhere in the community.

Here's the last PR statement from news wire:----



COLUMBUS, Ohio, Feb. 5 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- M/I Homes, Inc. (NYSE: MHO) announced results for its fourth quarter and year ended December 31, 2008.

For the 2008 fourth quarter, the Company reported a net loss of $75.4 million, or $5.38 per share. This loss includes $52.9 million of inventory pre-tax charges and a $29.0 million after-tax expense for the FAS 109 increase in the Company's deferred tax asset valuation allowance. In 2007's fourth quarter, the Company reported a net loss of $70.9 million, or $5.06 per share, including $109.2 million of similar inventory pre-tax charges.

The Company reported a net loss of $250.3 million for the year ended December 31, 2008, or $17.86 per share, compared to a net loss of $135.4 million, or $9.69 per share for 2007. For the year ended December 31, 2008, the Company recorded $158.6 million of pre-tax charges for inventory impairments and abandonments and a $108.6 million after-tax non-cash valuation allowance against its deferred tax assets. This compares to pre-tax charges in the same period of 2007 of $210.9 million and a tax benefit of $58 million.

New contracts of 1,879 for the twelve months ended December 31, 2008 were 25% below 2007's 2,513. New contracts for 2008's fourth quarter were 339 compared to 322 in 2007. The Company's cancellation rate was 31% in the fourth quarter of 2008, compared to 49% in 2007's fourth quarter. Homes delivered for the twelve months ended December 31, 2008 were 2,061 compared to 2007's deliveries of 3,288. Homes delivered in 2008's fourth quarter were 554, decreasing 47% from 2007's fourth quarter 1,042. The sales value of homes in backlog at December 31, 2008 was $139 million, with backlog units of 566 and an average sales price of $247,000. The backlog of homes at December 31, 2007 had a sales value of $233 million, with backlog units of 748 and an average sales price of $312,000. M/I Homes had 128 active communities at December 31, 2008 compared to 146 at December 31, 2007.

Robert H. Schottenstein, Chief Executive Officer and President, commented, "Clearly these are very difficult times for homebuilders. The combination of weak demand, falling home prices, historically low levels of consumer confidence, mounting foreclosures, and the increasing recessionary pressures dominating the overall economy have resulted in what many regard as the most severe housing recession in decades. After experiencing challenging conditions throughout most of 2006 and all of 2007, market conditions further deteriorated in 2008. Despite the significant headwinds we faced, we made progress in 2008 in a number of key areas. We generated $148 million of cash during 2008, reduced our homebuilding bank borrowings from $115 million at the beginning of 2008 to $0 at year end, and ended 2008 with $33 million of cash. Our homebuilding net debt to capital ratio is 32% -- one of the lowest in the homebuilding industry. We also successfully reduced our expense levels, lowered our headcount by 41% from a year ago, and reduced our owned lot count by 40% during the year. We continue to take steps designed to generate cash flow and strengthen our balance sheet."

Mr. Schottenstein continued, "Looking ahead into 2009, we expect market conditions to remain difficult. Accordingly, we will continue to employ a predominantly defensive operating strategy -- focusing on our balance sheet and our liquidity. We currently have $333 million of net worth, recently amended our bank credit facility, and have no debt maturing until 2012. This provides us with additional flexibility in these difficult times. At the same time, we will continue to focus on key offensive initiatives that we believe will position us for the eventual turn around in the homebuilding industry."

The Company will broadcast its earnings conference call today at 4:00 p.m. Eastern Time. To hear the call, log on to the M/I Homes' website at mihomes.com, click on the "Investors" section of the site, and select "Listen to the Conference Call." The call, along with any applicable reconciliation of non-GAAP financial measures, will continue to be available on our website through February 2010.

M/I Homes, Inc. is one of the nation's leading builders of single-family homes, having delivered over 73,000 homes. The Company's homes are marketed and sold under the trade names M/I Homes and Showcase Homes. The Company has homebuilding operations in Columbus and Cincinnati, Ohio; Chicago, Illinois; Indianapolis, Indiana; Tampa and Orlando, Florida; Charlotte and Raleigh, North Carolina; and the Virginia and Maryland suburbs of Washington, D.C.

Certain statements in this Press Release are forward-looking statements within the meaning of the Private Securities Litigation Reform Act of 1995. Words such as "expects," "anticipates," "targets," "goals," "projects," "intends," "plans," "believes," "seeks," "estimates," variations of such words and similar expressions are intended to identify such forward-looking statements. These statements involve a number of risks and uncertainties. Any forward-looking statements that we make herein and in future reports and statements are not guarantees of future performance, and actual results may differ materially from those in such forward-looking statements as a result of various factors relating to the economic environment, interest rates, availability of resources, competition, market concentration, land development activities and various governmental rules and regulations, as more fully discussed in the Risk Factors section in the Company's Annual Report on Form 10-K for the year ended December 31, 2007, as updated in the Company's periodic filings on Form 10-Q. All forward-looking statements made in this Press Release are made as of the date hereof, and the risk that actual results will differ materially from expectations expressed in this Press Release will increase with the passage of time. The Company undertakes no duty to publicly update any forward-looking statements, whether as a result of new information, future events or otherwise. However, any further disclosures made on related subjects in our subsequent filings, releases or presentations should be consulted.


decaf, i would be extremely careful about putting any money down or buying anything mew or even in a new unfinished community.
'there are so many builders going bankrupt, and they will take your down payment today and go belly up next week.
also in new development if the builder has problems, like they all did this year, the amenities are built last and they will never get finished, so instead of tennis courts and swimming pools you have a pile of dirt.
sidewalks are put in last many times also.
if the development is finished and full, but if the people paid more than the house is worth, which would be any development in the metro area finished in the last 5 years, the chance of neighbors foreclosing is huge.
your value dives, and you also have to pick up the common charges that they are not paying.
the only place i would buy in this are is in a old established neighborhood with most of the houses single family and not flippers, people that have a connection to the community, that rules out out all these new developments.
who is the builder??

[fuentejps]

its nearly done. ok what i did. give 1/2 of whatever ernest they want at contract signing and other 1/2 after its framed. i put 10k down. 5k at signing and 5k when rough framed. they didnt want to do it, i said no deal then, they quickly changed their mind,. YOU SHOULD BE ABLE TO PUT LESS DOWN, THEY WANTED 10% AT FIRST, I SAID NO. I would do say 5-6k on 110k home.

put everything in your contract, mine had an additional 10 pages in addendums..

something else, be sure your working w/ a good loan company, because that pre approval you have is no guarantee in 5mths, trust me , im in the business, most companies dont like giving those out anymore. that is no guarantee, its just based on your scores/income/dp, its not a loan. programs change daily. fwiw, i wrote my own loan through countrywide, yes i did it myself. try them, they are strong w/ "a" paper still. your developement is a PUD.

[Doorman]

put everything in your contract, mine had an additional 10 pages in addendums..
You are such a blow hard 10 pages the whole contract is 10 pages I swear you just like to hear yourself talk. What could you possibly put in writing taking up 10 additional pages?

[Scott Pruett]

You are such a blow hard 10 pages the whole contract is 10 pages I swear you just like to hear yourself talk. What could you possibly put in writing taking up 10 additional pages?
You obviously have no idea what's involved in building a house.

[NorthQuad]

You obviously have no idea what's involved in building a house.

No doubt. When lawyers are involed, you know the amounts of documentation are going to be vast. My cardboard box file cabinet can tell you.

[fuentejps]

........................................

[fuentejps]

You obviously have no idea what's involved in building a house.

i knows i just chuckled when i read it. shit i could and should have had another 5 pages as well.....

being on the loan side i know that if everything isnt signed by EVERYONE it means literally nothing.

i even went a step further, i drew up my on purch contract then had our company attorney review it, i made sure every angle was covered. ex= if i wouldnt of had all 5 sigs on the blueprint for the bathroom i would have eaten the tear up, repour and moving the toilet stack. that was a big screw up.

[NoDecafPlz]

Shit, Fuente,

Can I hire you to come down to Warren County and beat these guys up for me?

I already have an expert willing to do the weekly checkup, but no one for the setup.


i knows i just chuckled when i read it. shit i could and should have had another 5 pages as well.....

being on the loan side i know that if everything isnt signed by EVERYONE it means literally nothing.

i even went a step further, i drew up my on purch contract then had our company attorney review it, i made sure every angle was covered. ex= if i wouldnt of had all 5 sigs on the blueprint for the bathroom i would have eaten the tear up, repour and moving the toilet stack. that was a big screw up.

[fuentejps]

shit, fuente,

can i hire you to come down to warren county and beat these guys up for me?

I already have an expert willing to do the weekly checkup, but no one for the setup.

ill help anyway i can decaf, short of living on site. Write everything in the contract and have insp at every juncture i mean every single one.

[betheny]

I think you should shop a bit. In this market, he should be kissing your bootay. When you find the builder that is smart enough to do so, STILL stay up his ass!

My dad built a high end, totally custom home. Not in a development. Had his own architect. This was before anyone in the family was sick or paralyzed, but Dad was 63 and he and my stepmom were real cognizant of the fact that this would be their last home. Doorways are wide, it was built with an inconspicuous ramp to the front door. Dad and Bev lived 1/4 mi, up the road for a year, while it was being built. My brother worked on the project. Every move was supervised. If you knew my stepmom, you'd know Dave the Hot Builder had her high-pitched voice in his dreams. She is a VERY persistent, exacting woman. She wanted that very expensive house to be 100% wheelchair friendly (basement not included.) Dad had his own demands...the basement is built of concrete reinforced w/ rebar. It has an outside exit, in case a tornado knocks the stone house w/ the steel roof down on top of them.

That house is BEYOND custom built.

And I'll be damned if it isn't 3 steps down to get into the garage!

She's still mad, but it's not something that can be fixed. It was a glitch. She turned her back, lost focus for a sec.

What I'm saying here is, when you find the right builder, DON'T TURN YOUR BACK!

If you're already having trouble with this guy, in this market, with cash in hand, getting your house built to your specs will be a nightmare.

[rcechser]

I have been in the construction business for many years and built spec homes as well as customs homes, the first thing I will say if you drive a builder nuts he is going to tell you to take a hike, you can not call a person every second or expect him to answer every stupid question you have that why there is realtors. The markets sucks right now but nobody wants to go insane to make a dollar.

You can make changes if you are building a custom home, if you are taking a spec home and trying to make it a custom home, it is going to be more difficult I am not saying it cannot be done but you are going to have to find someone willing to work with you.And it is going to cost you subcontractors don't work for free.

I used to let my customers in after the frame was up, to do a walk thru and make any changes, then right before sheet rock, then one final time for a punch list THAT'S IT.

Last but not least if a customer came to me with 10 pages worth of changes in a condo project built on a slab( 2-3 bedroom), I would have told him to go shit in his hat and pull it down over his head.

[Scott Pruett]

I have been in the construction business for many years and built spec homes as well as customs homes, the first thing I will say if you drive a builder nuts he is going to tell you to take a hike, you can not call a person every second or expect him to answer every stupid question you have that why there is realtors. The markets sucks right now but nobody wants to go insane to make a dollar.

You can make changes if you are building a custom home, if you are taking a spec home and trying to make it a custom home, it is going to be more difficult I am not saying it cannot be done but you are going to have to find someone willing to work with you.And it is going to cost you subcontractors don't work for free.

I used to let my customers in after the frame was up, to do a walk thru and make any changes, then right before sheet rock, then one final time for a punch list THAT'S IT.

Last but not least if a customer came to me with 10 pages worth of changes in a condo project built on a slab( 2-3 bedroom), I would have told him to go shit in his hat and pull it down over his head.
wow. really?

if i hired you w/ six-figures on the line and specific needs, you better answer my questions and not pass the responsibility to a realtor... especially if you were under contract. if you pulled that kind of BS with me (again, under contract), not only would you be fired, but an attorney would be contacting you.

joe, shop around and find a builder who isn't a dick. with the economy like it is, there's bound to be someone decent out there who needs work.

[fuentejps]

I think you should shop a bit. In this market, he should be kissing your bootay. When you find the builder that is smart enough to do so, STILL stay up his ass!
.

yup yup. any credible builder will do whatever you want....especially now.

hardest part will be hammering out the addendum , which will be lengthy.....

STAY UP THEIR ASS, BE TENACIOUS, AS I said be sure, way more walkthroughs are in your contract.

fyi- that 110k will prob end up being higher. they will charge for everything.

they work for you, your the boss w/ the final say.

CONTROL CONTROL CONTROL.

[rcechser]

wow. really?

if i hired you w/ six-figures on the line and specific needs, you better answer my questions and not pass the responsibility to a realtor... especially if you were under contract. if you pulled that kind of BS with me (again, under contract), not only would you be fired, but an attorney would be contacting you.

joe, shop around and find a builder who isn't a dick. with the economy like it is, there's bound to be someone decent out there who needs work. Most homeowners suck and with your attitude you can see why I have my attitude. And that is why there is a REALTOR he is the middle man that is there job.

[fuentejps]

most homeowners suck and with your attitude you can see why i have my attitude. And that is why there is a realtor he is the middle man that is there job.

realtors are nothing more than pawns, if the homeowner has any sense, he will run the show....especially during a build.

Another thing i did was i had a contractual completion date in my contract, 200 per day after that date.......

I had the final and only say over everything. I made that clear up front, and for a build it went fairly smooth.. Above all, because of having a lengthy contract and my nose in everything my house is exactly what i wanted.

[rcechser]

realtors are nothing more than pawns, if the homeowner has any sense, he will run the show....especially during a build.

Another thing i did was i had a contractual completion date in my contract, 200 per day after that date.......

I had the final and only say over everything. I made that clear up front, and for a build it went fairly smooth.. Above all, because of having a lengthy contract and my nose in everything my house is exactly what i wanted.
This fucking thread is pissing me off more and more you people are fucked 200 days get the fuck out of my life.

[Scott Pruett]

Most homeowners suck and with your attitude you can see why I have my attitude. And that is why there is a REALTOR he is the middle man that is there job.

This fucking thread is pissing me off more and more you people are fucked 200 days get the fuck out of my life.
sounds like someone needs to go reread business ethics 101.

you're not the boss when doing a custom job for a client.

and no, buyers don't have to go through a realtor when working with a builder.

good luck staying afloat, rcechser. :D

[rdf]

Another thing i did was i had a contractual completion date in my contract, 200 per day after that date......If a builder accepted this then he was a freaking idiot.

I've been in the construction business my whole long life, and I agree with rcechser. Because he's written the facts of how it is.

A purchaser of a home stipulating a deadline date, else be fined $200/day? Never heard of such a thing. It just doesn't happen for home construction. I've seen it once in awhile with commercial projects, but there are usually incentives the other way in the form of bonuses for early completion - and the deadline isn't usually set in stone. I've also seen many a home builder run a buyer off the premises for nitpicking all the live long day.

The first thing you need to determine Joe is if the builder is also the developer, or just the general contractor. If the builder is a GC, his boss is the developer and/or the bank.

[Scott Pruett]

Facts or not, the paying customer has EVERY right to maintain control of the build. I know a guy who recently won a ~$300k lawsuit against his builder for breech of contract, including going well beyond the deadline & doing a lot of little things that were done to cut corners, which ultimately went against what was planned and agreed upon IN WRITING.

I agree that $200/day seems a little odd. I haven't heard of a penalty set like that, but I have heard of penalties making their way into contract.

[rcechser]

I agree that $200/day seems a little odd. I haven't heard of a penalty set like that, but I have heard of penalties making their way into contract.It only happens in commercial projects he again is talking out his ass and you are just following along like a puppy dog.

[rcechser]

sounds like someone needs to go reread business ethics 101.

you're not the boss when doing a custom job for a client.

and no, buyers don't have to go through a realtor when working with a builder.

good luck staying afloat, rcechser. :D
I never said buyers had to good through realtors, but I use realtors and JOE is using one come on keep on with the story instead of trying to shit all over me with bull shit.

[rcechser]

I've been in the construction business my whole long life, and I agree with rcechser. Because he's written the facts of how it is.A friggin men !!!

[Scott Pruett]

It only happens in commercial projects he again is talking out his ass and you are just following along like a puppy dog.
I never said buyers had to good through realtors, but I use realtors and JOE is using one come on keep on with the story instead of trying to shit all over me with bull shit.
oh cry me a river. i'm surprised you're in business. all it's gonna take to knock you off your high horse is one client who won't tolerate being treated like a peasant.

[NoDecafPlz]

Guys, c'mon.

I appreciate the insight. I'm not looking to be a bulldog but I am glad there will be someone who is a friend of a trusted friend that (has been in construction 20
plus years) will go in every two weeks or so and check up.

I am going to keep my requests very basic. I need everything as level and barrier free as possible and I need doorways at least 30 inches.

I am meeting this Sunday to further discuss but early feedback is they would need to extend the house two feet for a roll in shower. This I find hard to believe as I could always make any vanity/sink and cabinet smaller or just remove the damn toilet.

If I can pull everyone back together for enough to ask:

What questions should I be asking BEFORE anything is signed?

[betheny]

Can someone explain to me where a realtor comes into the picture? If you own the lot and are building the house, why would there be a realtor? The realtors I know sell existing homes, some unused. But none of them sell construction projects. :thinking: My parents didn't have a realtor. They'd owned that section for 30 years, I don't even see where a realtor would apply in the equation.

[Leif]

First off, find a “standard contract”. Believe you have some of that in the US. Then make appendixes to that contract. For example ADA brochures or drawings available etc. No biggie. The biggie is how you want it though, and that is the question, which has to be sorted out before signing any contract, of course. You have to find out what you want; a contract, or how you want you’re new place to be. I guess how you’re new place to be come first, -so work on that a lill more if you are not sure. Just a tip and good luck.

[lynnifer]

Extend your house by two feet? Sounds like someone wants to charge a whole heck of a lot extra!

I lost space in another room to make a bigger bathroom .. what is around the planned bathroom that you could lose? I sacrificed a small storage room .. they charged me to change the cookie-cutter design ... but they couldn't charge me extra materials or man-hours!!!

Don't forget that you'll have years to make things right (lol) ... that's part of the fun of owning a home.

ETA: Can we stop insulting each other? It started with Doorman ... can that alter ego.

[Leif]

Can someone explain to me where a realtor comes into the picture? If you own the lot and are building the house, why would there be a realtor? The realtors I know sell existing homes, some unused. But none of them sell construction projects. :thinking: My parents didn't have a realtor. They'd owned that section for 30 years, I don't even see where a realtor would apply in the equation.
Realtors are peoples drinking coffee latte; they normally don’t have a clue on construction.

[Leif]

Don't forget that you'll have years to make things right (lol) ... that's part of the fun of owning a home.

ETA: Can we stop insulting each other? It started with Doorman ... can that alter ego.Frankly. If buying/constructing a house to live in, say aiming for some years. Then make it right 1. time; it will save money down the road. Like if some is after a wife…

[rdf]

Can someone explain to me where a realtor comes into the picture? If you own the lot and are building the house, why would there be a realtor? The realtors I know sell existing homes, some unused. But none of them sell construction projects. :thinking: My parents didn't have a realtor. They'd owned that section for 30 years, I don't even see where a realtor would apply in the equation.
That's different than a subdivision like Joe's looking at betheny. I didn't read all the posts but I think that's the case.

Your pops owned the land and paid for the construction, so he hired the general contractor, meaning the general is not working for a developer, but for your dad. So he has a lot more say than a subdivision home owner. But he still had to abide by the contract with the builder, likewise the builder with your dad. It usually works out just fine.

But there are many people who suddenly want the window 2 feet over, or two steps instead of three, or an extra door, etc. And this is usually when the house is about done. You quote them a price, some complain and say they don't have to pay anything extra. So the contract has to be tight.

In subdivision homes, when the guy or lady tells you she wants the window two feet over, or an extra window, or a patio on the side instead of the front, well, it just doesn't happen too much, even if they agree to pay. The aesthetics of the subdivision come into play, and if you change one plan, the neighbors will want the same and more different changes, etc. Most SDs have two or three different floor plans, and they stick to them. Covenants come into play, also.

Respect goes both ways, and most builders I know work with people who are like your dad, building a house on his own land and hiring the general - a single custom home on a private lot not part of a subdivision is a lot different than buying a planned SD home. Your dad could have the house look anyway he would have liked, if that was allowed in the contract and he'd agreed to pay for it all. Any builder would jump at the chance.

Good luck Joe, glad you have a buddy to check things out for you.

[Leif]

Normally the ones selling, like selling labour etc, will try to get as much money as possible. It's not something new.

[betheny]

Normally the ones selling, like selling labour etc, will try to get as much money as possible. It's not something new.

With our crap economy right now, it's a buyer's market. So the guy trying to get more money selling labor just won't have a job. It will go to a guy that accepts less pay. Also not a new thing, but it's been a while since things were this bad.

[fuentejps]

If a builder accepted this then he was a freaking idiot.

I've been in the construction business my whole long life, and I agree with rcechser. Because he's written the facts of how it is.

A purchaser of a home stipulating a deadline date, else be fined $200/day? Never heard of such a thing. It just doesn't happen for home construction. I've seen it once in awhile with commercial projects, but there are usually incentives the other way in the form of bonuses for early completion - and the deadline isn't usually set in stone. I've also seen many a home builder run a buyer off the premises for nitpicking all the live long day.

The first thing you need to determine Joe is if the builder is also the developer, or just the general contractor. If the builder is a GC, his boss is the developer and/or the bank.

actually you can put anything you want in a contract. as for deadline penalty, i see it frequently w/ end loans. why?? because you have a borrower signing a contract w/ nothing but a pre approval from the bank, thats means nothing. you really cant even start the process of the actual loan until around 30 days left. to get your best rates you do 30 day rate lock, if you go beyond that you lose that rate and your at the mercy of the market...........

my builder was confident and signed the penalty agreement and he finished early.

not real sure why anyone wouldnt put penaltie clauses in their contract, especially today. even 2 years ago my builder would do just about anything, but now they are really going that extra mile.

if any of you are scared to put something in a contract, your not ready to buiild.

as for relying on a realtor, hats the dumbest thing i've ever heard.

[fuentejps]

Guys, c'mon.

I appreciate the insight. I'm not looking to be a bulldog but I am glad there will be someone who is a friend of a trusted friend that (has been in construction 20
plus years) will go in every two weeks or so and check up.

I am going to keep my requests very basic. I need everything as level and barrier free as possible and I need doorways at least 30 inches.

I am meeting this Sunday to further discuss but early feedback is they would need to extend the house two feet for a roll in shower. This I find hard to believe as I could always make any vanity/sink and cabinet smaller or just remove the damn toilet.

If I can pull everyone back together for enough to ask:

What questions should I be asking BEFORE anything is signed?

write everuything down. ask if you can sub out anything yourself. find out how ada savy they are. my builder had recently built a cluster of luxury apartments w/ several decd out ada compliant units. i was able to check them out. you will get charged for everything from someone to design your cabinets lower to finding a smaller dishwasher to fit under.
do not let them push you into using their mortgage company or title company, use your own, thats huge.
to reiderate from a buyer as well as the banking perspective, have a deadline completion penalty, hopefully you wont need it.
punch list to address in the first meeting
1. go 36 in doors not 30
2. lower kitchen counter
3. you want the under the sink area left open w/ maybes doors so u can roll under
4. lower access fuse box
5. lower thermostat
6. raise your outlets a bit
7. water, gas shut offs w/in reach
8 if your on a slab, get good carpet w/ thicker padding, harder to push but warmer-your in oh.
9.have your own ramp built

get the floor plan and make the shower fit. the entire design of my bathroom was changed and i did lose the closet space in the bathroom.. to make more room you can go w/ 2 pedistal sinks.

i'll pm u my cell number feel free to give a call.

above all man, your the boss, i cant belive some of the sorry ass advice in this thread. if u want your shit done right STAY IN CONTROL

[NoDecafPlz]

Who are all the players that you made sure signed everything before you signed?

Know any lawyers I could pay in Cincy area to review?

How many inspections am I writing in? At what stages?

(This is my guy right?) What qualifications does this person need?

[rdf]

if any of you are scared to put something in a contract, your not ready to buiild. [ you don't have a clue. Ever heard of a thing called mother nature and her weather? Late or slow delivery of materials? Sub contractors slowing up the whole process? General not getting paid, thus the subs not getting paid, so they stop working? All of these things and more can make a deadline laughable ]

as for relying on a realtor, hats the dumbest thing i've ever heard. [ most developers hire a general contractor to build the houses, and the general subs out the trades. The developer also hires a Realtor to sell his/her houses around the same time he hires the general contractor. This is standard practice, and the Realtor is the go between to keep pesky busybodies who complain about everything under the sun from bothering the construction workers who are trying to get their job done. ]There might be deadlines between the developer who is financing the construction and the general he hires, but it's usually loose, something like get the first phase of 10 houses done by this date, and I'll give you a bonus, etc. Very few developers penalize their builders because they're usually buddies, and they all know the fickle fate of getting a construction project done by a specific date. When you get a prick of a developer with penalties, then soon you have the different subs backcharging one another, and it turns into a clusterfuck.

[fuentejps]

There might be deadlines between the developer who is financing the construction and the general he hires, but it's usually loose, something like get the first phase of 10 houses done by this date, and I'll give you a bonus, etc. Very few developers penalize their builders because they're usually buddies, and they all know the fickle fate of getting a construction project done by a specific date. When you get a prick of a developer with penalties, then soon you have the different subs backcharging one another, and it turns into a clusterfuck.

i hear you man, no argument there, but when my loan and interest rate is on the line, those things arent my problem. the developer and builder used amish crews to build mine, those guys were amazing, worked through some shitty weather.

as i said, im glad i had deadline penalties and when we build again, i will do the same. funny, my builder didnt bitch much at all................

[chick]

You have some good feedback from people from both sides (buyer/builder). I don't see anyone here saying not to have control in this process, or to not be completely informed of every aspect and step. Like I said earlier, make sure you have someone willing to communicate and to working with you, and that a good relationship exists throughout. As rdf said, respect goes both ways, and YOU are as much responsible in making sure your needs are met and the job gets done, and that it gets done right. Few are going to want to please you and do the best job as possible, if they have someone bitching and moaning every step of the way, and especially if that interferes with their work or existing plans. Being in control, and remaining firm and direct, has nothing to do with being a bulldog, and I think you already know that. There's greater likelihood you'll get your needs met and possibly even have them go above and beyond to satisfy you, if you are not only knowledgeable, firm and confident, but likable.

Hard to say what you "should" or "must" do, because people are going to require different measurements, given their individual needs. What you do also depends on what your specific plan/layout is currently, and working with that, as it's pretty much completed at this point (you said 85% completed?). Whatever the case, there may be foundational and other infrastructure issues that must be considered, so there isn't unnecessary or redundant work, or extra cost in tearing something out just to redo something that could have been easily done initially.

Re measurements, I think it's best to keep mods and obvious changes at a minimum, or keeping things as universal as possible. You want this to be readily usable for a non-w/c user as well.

Clipper had a great thread re home construction, which may give you some ideas for both design and process. But as rdf pointed out, hers was not a subdivision like yours, so there will be some differences. See here for thread: My diary: Building a new home (http://sci.rutgers.edu/forum/showthread.php?t=33098&highlight=home)

[fuentejps]

decaf,
when i got together w/ everyone to sign my contract. i had my sales lady, the sales manager, the building forman guy, my realtor and me sign every single document.

bottom line, if its not in the contract, your screwed.....

as for walkthroughs, u want one at every single juncture. in my contract it was said that i had to sign off on each walkthrough, no verrbals. so my sig and formans sig.

the reason i was so anal about everything is over the years i have seen so many ppl get screwed by builders being on the loan side. unfortunatly good builders arent easy to find.

[Rustyjames]

unfortunatly good builders arent easy to find.

You are correct with that statement. And they've been through all the BS of what it takes to complete a project. They are also usually smart enough to know that no deal is better than a bad deal. We are talking about a 100,000 dollar house here, not something custom built.

[rcechser]

You are correct with that statement. And they've been through all the BS of what it takes to complete a project. They are also usually smart enough to know that no deal is better than a bad deal. We are talking about a 100,000 dollar house here, not something custom built.:applaud:

[rcechser]

You have some good feedback from people from both sides (buyer/builder). I don't see anyone here saying not to have control in this process, or to not be completely informed of every aspect and step. Like I said earlier, make sure you have someone willing to communicate and to working with you, and that a good relationship exists throughout. As rdf said, respect goes both ways, and YOU are as much responsible in making sure your needs are met and the job gets done, and that it gets done right. Few are going to want to please you and do the best job as possible, if they have someone bitching and moaning every step of the way, and especially if that interferes with their work or existing plans. Being in control, and remaining firm and direct, has nothing to do with being a bulldog, and I think you already know that. There's greater likelihood you'll get your needs met and possibly even have them go above and beyond to satisfy you, if you are not only knowledgeable, firm and confident, but likable.
Chick, I am glad someone else gets it I thought it was me, maybe it didn't come out that way but that is what I was trying to say before my blood starting boiling.

[HeathQuad]

Only thing I am going to add is that if there is any way possible someone needs to keep a check/look over things more often than every two weeks. More like every couple of days if possible. A lot of work can be done in two weeks and a lot of things covered up in that time that you might not see. Out of sight, out of mind philosophy. Out of the three builds I have been involved in we found small issues that would have been a problem in the future (walls not level or out of square, wall studs scabbed together, we requested extra wiring be left in the wall so there would be a little extra at each outlet in case of future problems, we paid for it but they did not do it initially) a lot of small stuff can be covered up quickly and you will never see it. Have someone check on it more often if possible.

[fuentejps]

yup, good thought heath, i went by at least every 3 days, w/ a buddy or my dad for a 2nd set of eyes

[Leif]

With our crap economy right now, it's a buyer's market. So the guy trying to get more money selling labor just won't have a job. It will go to a guy that accepts less pay. Also not a new thing, but it's been a while since things were this bad.You might be right on that one, and unfortunately also in pressed marked situations the good guys going by the books, codes and good ethics (which cost more) will often be the ones that goes bankrupt first. The times requires more investigation before one is hiring a contractor I guess.