This withdrawl is Brutal

[duge]

I been trying to go down from my Fentanyl 50 Mcg to a 25 now for 2 weeks and by the end of the 2nd day it's all used up, :zombie: so it's why I'm up late tonight.... Fucking hell this time!!:(:( got to call my Dr. tomorrow, I'm sick of this shit!!! Just need a little moral support!

[nickelo]

you can do it!!! its all in time you know! minute to minute hun!:)

[arndog]

duge - my heart goes out to you. I have been there many times. It is brutal, difficult, ugly, .....chemical yearning is so bad. I have done difficult things in the past, big alpine climbs, climbing El Cap, but nothing compares to the suffering from coming off Narcs.

Hang in there, try to exercise , get distracted somehow. Don't bark at people (that is what I would do). Good luck,
jon

[smokymtn memories]

How ya doin' Duge?

[David Berg]

Hang in there duge, we're all rooting for you. Come here and rant if you it'll help, we'll do what we can to support you.

[Obieone]

Bills been where you are Duge ..... hang in there ... it will pass http://bestsmileys.com/stars/3.gif (for good measure) !

Obieone

[duge]

I ended up having to change the patch a little early, was suppose to change it this afternoon and had to go ahead and do it about midnight last night. I was keeping everyone up and my youngest is a dispatcher and had to be up at 4 so I went ahead and changed it. took about 3 hrs to get any releif but I am getting ahold of my Dr this am and see why it's doing this now, well for the last week started about a week after going down to the 25. this is the second week

[arndog]

I thought that there are 12.5 Mcg patches. If so, you could not have to drop precipitously 50 % from 50 to 25. You could go 50 to 37.5 to 25 which might be more doable . Just an idea....
jon

[duge]

Well..... just got word from my Dr. and ........ wants me to go back up to the 50!!!!! I said NO!!!!! that I still got 5 left and I'm giving them my best shot! so........here we go!!

[arndog]

Duge - you still hanging in there on the lower dose patch?
Hang in there !
jon

[duge]

[quote=arndog;1001984]Duge - you still hanging in there on the lower dose patch?
Hang in there !
jon[/quot


I'm still there! had a rough night, I am NOT going back up! found that putting a heatpad has helped my leg pain from it. My wife has been resarching and has found them to say that it could take months to get rid of all it, turns out the damm stuff is pretty dangerous!
Doug

[arndog]

duge - here is what I did to get off it. I was on it last May and June after major spine revision surgery at UCSF. I switched over to oral meds, oxycontin which I could control lowering the dose easier than the patches.
So IMO, switching to oral and then decreasing the dose is the way to go. I got on them when I had a bowel obstruction following the surgery and I couldn't take meds easily by mouth. Why are you on patches in the first place rather than oral meds?

[duge]

they putu me on them in the rehab. I hurt real bad then they had not found it yet and man tonight is bad!!!!!!!!!!!! post back tomorrow just changed the patch about a hr ago and damm it's not worjing!!

[sjean423]

A lot of people actually are prescribed to change the patch every 48 hrs instead of every 72.

You were on 50 every 72 hours right?

How about asking your doc to prescribe the 25s as every 48 hours for a while, and then step down to the 72 hour change?

[arndog]

Again, my heart goes out to you. It is such a terrible feeling. It is easier and more controllable to withdraw using oral meds. I always wondered if I was still getting drug from those fracking patches between 48 and 72 hours. I concluded that they really only last for 48 hours as sjean says above. IMO, I say convert to oral meds, and dial it down to where you want to be.

[duge]

finally made it last night, not real sure why the pain from my hamstrings other than the way I walk pulls on them constantly. I just know it's already getting way past old,

sjean I am on the 25's now, been a full downward from the 50's and I'm just a stubborn enough man to not let it win! I don't think my Dr, (GP) really knows that much about all this shit. she wanted me to go back up th the 50's but I'm NOT doing it!! I'll get through it but it sure is old as hell already, my wife searched about it and the stuff was generaly NOT good, I wish they had used oral meds instead of the patch now!

[sjean423]

Sorry, I got the part that you were on the 25s, what I was trying to say, was instead of letting the doc put you back up to the 50s, use the 25s on a 48 hour basis for a few times, then drop back to 72 hours. Pace it out a litttle more.

[duge]

Well I got to say I am getting tired of this shit!!!!!!!!!!! Sunday was BAD! and pretty much of this week so far, this am I feel pretty good. Just tired of all the shaking and nausea that has gone with it. Hopefully most of it will be gone now, I just changed my patch last nite so got 3 more and don't know wether to go to the 12.5's or stay with the 25's for another month. I get 10 at a time. I take Lyrica too but doesnt seem to matter if I miss a dose but htis patch is something else! and I been on it for at the least 6 1/2 yrs now! I get off it they will NEVER get me back on it!

[arndog]

Hi duge,
good going. I know I am going to sound like a broken record that keeps repeating but maybe you could switch at this point to orals to make the process more manageable. In any case, it sounds like you made the drop to 25 in one piece.

[duge]

I did Arndog, I never knew at the time they could cut it in half like that. I know I'll be damm glad when it's over!!! I'm kinda afraid to just go off the next time, guess I'll go to the 12.5's

[duge]

I swear I know now why sometimes people take their lives from th pain or from withdrawl. I took my patch off yesterday morning anf the back of my legs have NOT let up. not sure how much longer I can.....

[arndog]

Duge - last I heard from you , you were on the 12.5 fentanyl patches. What is going on? You are sounding suicidal in your last post and I am concerned. Is your pain doctor of any help to you? Does your family know what you are going through?
Please stay safe - let us know what is happening.....

[thehipcrip]

Duge, I am worried too. Are you now totally without any pain relief?

I absolutely understand your desire to be off of the patches, but are you against taking any pain meds whatsoever? You sound as though you are in sheer agony -- and that's no way to live.

How can we, or anyone, help?

--THC

[metronycguy]

imo if you have constant pain you have to be on a 27/7 amd a bt med.
with the patch , i would think you would change to a long acting oral

[jody]

duge, clonadine kinda takes the edge off a little. and tones down the crazy heart. im right at 48 hrs, and always feel like im on the edge of the chills and that curl up in a ball feeling. I use clonadine for Ad. what are you going to do for pain then? I find water ice and several warm blankets comforting during durahell.

[jody]

really though, we have the same sort of injury. next month itll be my turn to go down to 25.

[duge]

I'm OK !!!!!!!!!! thanks for the concern, I took it off altogather Sunday Morning, it was already out but then that night and Monday was hell I had only been on them for 20 days so eveidently my body was screaming out for them! I honestly can say now I DO know why people would take their lives....... It was NOT fun!!!!!!!! I had to get off them because of loosing my prescription card and just the truth NOT being able to afford it!!!!! Oh Yeah I still got the pain, but my foot Dr. put me on Lyrica and it has helped with the burning, nothing has ever helped with the part about feeling like walking on broken glass but with what I have to put up with what's a little more added to it! other's have it alot worse! They put me on the patch about 6 1/2 yrs ago when I kept telling them I hurt, hell yes my back was broken that no-one had listened too! so why didn't they take me off when they finally found it and done my surgery??? Anyway right now it's been like 72 hrs and I hope it's finally about all over with the patch, just hope I don't have to go to something else. Again Thanks all, and if anyone ever tries to go off a med please let me know and I will do all I can to help!

Doug

[David Berg]

Glad to hear you made it, bud. You're a survivor.

[Obieone]

http://bestsmileys.com/stars/3.gif {{{hug}}} hang in there Duge you're one tough nut !

Obie

[arndog]

Duge,
The worst of the chemical yearning is probably over but it can show up for weeks after cessation. So stay tough.
I have done a lot of difficult things, like climbing to 23,000 ft in Peru, getting pinned down in a snow cave at 20,000 ft without a sleeping bag, 7 day climbs up El Capitan sleeping in hammocks, but nothing compares to the difficultly of withdrawing from narcs - something about every cell in your body yearning for a medicine that is in the drawer next to the bed and having to withhold from taking something that will end the symptoms is REALLY tough.
Jody is right about Clonidine helping with some of the symptoms, but it sounds like you got through it.
Good job ! !

[snorp]

You are showing the courage it takes to succeed. Have been there and it is hell. By knowing that your doc is ready to help if you need is a big help. It just seems to help psychologically to know you have a safety net. Pain is eaisier to endure if you have the knowledge you can turn the switch off if you have to. I admire your stick to it principle. And, if you can't take it any more, getting relief doesn't mean you've given up, just taking a break. Then back to the program. You surely didn't get to where you are in a couple of months. Perhaps the doc can help with some other meds that take the edge off. Good luck!!

[thehipcrip]

So relieved to know you're okay, Duge -- that last post was quite worrisome. I am incredibly proud of you for being able to kick the patches, and second what snorp has to say about getting relief when you just can't take it anymore. You've shown again and again you have the ability to do this -- please don't make yourself suffer needlessly during the process, okay?

[rybread]

I had a horrible experience when I had to have a baclofen pump removed because the new replacement had gotten infected. It had Dilauded in it and it left me with such harsh withdrawals that I got mad at an IV pole for not helping me thinking it was a nurse. I was hallucinating all sorts of things. Fortunately, I was told about most of it and don't remember a lot of it. What I do remember though was absolutely horrible so I know exactly what you went through. Never again will I have any narcotics put in my pump.

[duge]

Damm I hate to say it but I'm having some symptom's again tonight. the thing in my legs are trying to kick back in, I don't understand last night was good but then tonight here we go again. Not like earlier but enough to not let me sleep it off. This morning I was sick as hell to my stomach and slept a big part of the day but has really been a big mistake for tonight anyway, guess that's part of it too. For anyone who has ever stopped a drug like this..... has deffinatly my respect!!! I'll get through, the worst is over.

[duge]

Been much much better today, only thing is I am noticing that my feet are hurting more. I go to my Foot Dr the 23rd so hopefully something will get ironed out then.

I have one real problem though, see I have had that patch for going on 7 yrs now and I am not really sure of what kind of pain I am suppose to have.

[arndog]

I have one real problem though, see I have had that patch for going on 7 yrs now and I am not really sure of what kind of pain I am suppose to have.

Duge, I really know what you mean by this statement and have said the same thing. I was just about to ask you if you can differentiate the withdrawal pains from the pain you are trying to manage - I assume neuropathic pain. It is so hard. You may not know what pain you are "supposed to have" for a number of weeks till you get the narc out of your system.
Oh, for me , I have to include aerobic exercise as a big part of my pain management - I know the endorphins that I generate help. What about you?
When I got off narcs, I was surprised that I would have no withdrawal symptoms during the day, but at night unexpectedly and occasionally they would appear ! I heard it can take a few months, especially if you have been on patches for 7 years.
Do you have something to take for the pain you are "supposed to have"? Lyrica, neurontin, elavil, celebrex, advil, tylenol, one or 2 drinks ?
Hopefully you do.

[duge]

sorry double

[duge]

It's back tonight with a vengeance!!! has not let up all day long with the leg part. My Dr told me to take Alieve. nothing, and taking Dr. scholls leg cramp med plus 450 mg of Lyrica . wife doesn't understand that creams are not going to help. the backs of my legs are numb you can pinch till it brings blood so........ they are burning like hell. and creams do nothing. I don'e some research today and it is NOT good, like you said Arndog, it can last for a long time, said they can put you to sleep and wash it out of you but I don't think anyone "My Dr. included" around here has any idea of this.
http://www.rapiddrugdetox.com/detox-facts--drugs/fentanyal-withdrawals-detox-from-fentanyl/duragesic-addiction--abuse.html
if anyone wants to read about it.

[teena]

heyyyyyyy...

I'm sorry to see you are having such trouble...grrrr, pain!!!

Try to relax just a little bit, and at least that will relieve some stress on your body...

take care, Duge...and better days ahead!

Teena

[Alan J T]

Dam thank the stars I dont have withdrawal probs till it comes to cigs that is but oh well best of luck mate and im chasing some answers my self at the moment.

[cljanney]

Hang tough my man... it can be done.
Trust that others have done it before you and that it is only a matter of time.
Next week you will feel completely different and better than you feel now.

You got it in you!

[duge]

Sorry to tell you all that I have had to get back on the 12's because of some pain "nurophic I think" but had no choice because of the lack of interest from my pc Dr. and not bbeing able to get a hold of my foot Dr. it is the smallest dose since in January I was on 50's so I still do feel it to be a success to be where I am. I only had like 6 hrs of sleep in 5 days because of the pain. It NEVER let up, I thought it was withdrawl but it wasn't. took about 14 hrs for it to let up after putting the 12 back on. Still though I feel defeated. But I will try again in a month or so, as only have used the 12's for 14 days or something like that before trying to go off. Thanks to all though who has been there for me during the time I was going down and WAS withdrawling.
Doug

[thehipcrip]

Oh sweetie, please don't feel defeated! If you hurt that bad (and you were definitely hurting bad), there's nothing at all wrong with getting a little help in bringing that pain back down to levels where you can have a life.

You've managed to do an incredibly difficult task: weaning yourself off of high doses of strong narcotics. You have every reason in the world to be proud of how far you've come, and especially of the fact that you're going to keep trying.

The patch isn't really the best choice, though, for someone who just needs the occasional help with getting flares under control, especially if it's neuro pain that's the problem. Any chance you could get a referral to a pain management doctor that could help get you off the patches and, if needed, get you on to something more appropriate for the type and nature of pain you have?

Get some sleep, duge, and don't feel bad. You're still doing great.

--THC

[arndog]

Hey Duge - I am going to repeat what hipcrip said. YOU DID INCREDIBLE to get down to the lower dose patches. I went through that and it really sucked - it was very nasty.
And remember, just because you 'want' to get off narcs doesn't mean you can. You still have SCI and you still have neuropathic pain which is why you took the narcs in the first place. If you could just close your eyes and wish the pain away ! That is not going to happen - you need something to help get through the day. Again , agreeing with HipCrip, I would not use patches and get on something oral, like an occasional oxycodone (Oxy-IR). Much easier to manage oral meds.
The idea that you can totally wean yourself off narcs or lyrica and neurontin is based on the premise that the original reason you took them is gone or you found a non - medication method of management.
I tried 'weaning' off Lyrica, I got down from 150mg three times a day to 75 mg twice a day and if I took less than that, I was incredibly distracted by neuropathic burning that was ruining my day. Sure I would like to 'wean' off it totally but that ain't happening any time soon. It wasn't the side effects of the lyrica withdrawal, it was the original problem.
Again, you did great. Maybe ask your pain specialist or doc about switching to prn breakthrough narcs.....
jon

[markm0320]

Duge -

I am new here, but have been in your same position. Last year I was on the 75 mcg patches and decided I was done with it. The side effects were just too much for me, plus at the time I had a 3 year old daughter. The medication was affecting my ability to be a good dad. I slowly decreased over 3 months and then switched to Oxy 20 mg. It was a rough road and even with the oxy the withdrawls were a nightmare. About 5 months ago I got rid of the narcs all together. Last month I too had a setback with increased pain so I have gone on Narco. We all have setbacks. The good news is if you are not making progress there is no change of getting set back once in a while. Just keep after it. I know you can do it. I am sure I speak for all when I say the setbacks are expected for all of us. It makes you human. I wish you all the best.

Mark

[snorp]

Congrats!!! You are a member of the been to hell club. We should have some sort of recognition coin or patch or avatar indicator that indicates you have endured something you wouldn't wish on your worse enemy. (well, maybe not worse) Knowing what the cost of opiod pain comtrol ultimatley is will give you a more mature view of how to use them as the tools they are meant to be. I don't think even the PM docs really know what the experience is all about. I do agree that you succeded in your effort. If the pain wasn't there, I don't think you would wish to build the mgs. to the point of having to go the whole route again. The drugs are incidious though. They are known to establish increased pain in order to get more narcs in your system. So, don't be quick to reestablish a high amount and see how the lower dose works over time. if your condition physically does get worse over time, you now have a gauge and the ability to obtain some relief with less than before. You did GREAT! This is a nightmare though. Now you are more educated to deal with it.

[arndog]

very good advice, snorp

[duge]

Thanks to everyone for the support! It really DID help knowing other's are thinking and backing you. I hope anyone else who thinks about going off will come and let me try to help. Again many thanks!

Doug

[sinbin]

I was up to 4x100mg Lyrica, and had missed a few doses after being on it for about 6 months. I told my neuro that I wanted to stop taking it. She told me if I did it would bite me in the ass. I'm so glad she said that.
I'm backing off gradually, and am now down to 250mg (2x75 morning and afternoon, then 100 before bed. Starting tomorrow, I am going to attempt to go down to 225 (1 each 50, 75 and 100). The only difficulty I've had is trying to keep up with the Rx's so I have enough of each to do this. So far, I've had no "withdrawl" symptoms. I am very thankful

[sinbin]

Well, days 3 and 4 didn't go so well. Pain sucks.
I have no withdrawl sypmtoms. That's good, but how I feel isn't.
Today, I reversed the dose, 100, 75 and later, I'll take a 50. today was better. I have pleanty to take whatever I want, but I think I will hold off where I'm at. Don't know how tomorrow will be. I will let you know. Thanks everyone for being here. I know I am lucky to be where I'm at, and thank you all for being here for all of us. I am a noobie, but I appreciate everything I have learned for you all. Thank you.

[duge]

I for one will be here to support you in any way I can! I still have it in my mind to try to go off this at least one more time, I'm on the smallest which is 12 was on 50's. I have also been on lyrica for close to 8 months now, it's really been a godsend for my feet.

Going down slowly is the way to do it. I would never have made it to where I am if I tried cold turkey!

[sinbin]

From what I read in some old threads, it could be the fluctuations in barometric pressure that's causing this increase in pain, and not the lower dose of Lyrica. So, since no withdrawls, I'm going to try to stick it out.

[betheny]

My toes feel like they've been hit with baseball bats and we've had tornado watches every night. I KNOW there is a connection between weather and pain.

[jody]

has anyone experienced more pain after flying? the weather doesnt bother me, except for the bitter cold. im wondering if your pain was leveling out at all over time, as witdrawal passes or are you just getting around less because of the glassy burn.

[november]

My toes feel like they've been hit with baseball bats and we've had tornado watches every night. I KNOW there is a connection between weather and pain.
Yep, I can usually tell everybody a few days before we get rain or snow...speaking of which....

[duge]

I'm off !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! been a week since having it on and going on 2 weeks since putting new one on! I Finally got it done!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Grange]

Okay ... I am going to be facing coming off Meth, Baclofen, and Lyrica eventually. I will be having a anterior and posterior spinal fusion in June to repair an unfused spine from my accident 3 years ago. One of the purposes of going through the surgery is to hopefully kick the monkey in the ass and get off the Methadone, Lyrica, and Baclofen. At the very least I want to reduce them all significantly. Obviously I'm not going to do this before the surgery. As soon as I recover enough to start though I will be starting to reduce one of them. Any suggestions on which to try to kick first?

[arndog]

Hi Grange -
I was in a similar situation a year ago. 6 years post SCI and scheduled for an anterior and posterior spine revision and on oxycontin and lyrica.
My biggest fear was that the Anethesiologist would not appreciate that I had a tolerance to narcs and wouldn't give me enough pain medication post operatively. Make sure you get this point to your surgeon - that you are on strong narcs for the back pain and you are concerned about pain management in the perioperative period. Maybe even have your pain doc 'weigh in' about postoperative pain management. Okay, I had to get that off my chest.

I would try, therefore, to wean off the Methadone if I had to pick one. But you don't really have much time... Maybe it would be prudent to be easy on yourself till the surgery, have the surgery and worry about getting off the meds 3 months after the surgery. If it is a success, you should be getting off the narcs if you were taking them for radiculopathy which will be resolved by the surgical fusion. What makes you think you will not need Lyrica? You may still have neuropathic pain and burning after the surgery. I still do. (But I am SO much better off with the surgery). So I still need the meds that address the neuropathic component. So there are some ideas....
Trying to 'kick' some of these meds may be unrealistic. Kind of like telling a diabetic that you should kick this darn insulin habit...
But hopefully the narcs will fall away with the success of the surgery. I am just really relating my own experience.

[duge]

Arndog, I know what you mean about NOT going off all them. I still take Lyrica, in fact my Dr increased it because I was having alot more foot pain after going off the patch. I havn't been on the higher dose long enough to tell how it's going to work, but even if it never helps it's still way better than that damm patch!!!!

[snorp]

Congrats on the success of beating the patch. Very well done!!!

[jody]

:high5:your an inspiration to me duge. Im feeling anxiety about going down from 50-25.
congrats.