do you have a 'burning' pain...?

[sankofa02]

c5 incomplete 21yr old male - happened alittle over 2 years ago.

has intense 'burning' sensation/pain mostly on his side/& back. last night it was going up to his chest and had to goto er. drs didnt do anything.

His regular doctor tried to give him rx for percocet/oxycontin.
the perc's didnt work with him well, and he's not too hot on the idea of oxys. Is that the only remedy is such intense drugs?

if you have any experience with this, i'd appreciate some feedback.:applaud:

[doingtimeonmyass]

I've had burning sensations where it feels like you're sitting butt naked in a snowbank. For that type of pain consider looking into drugs like gabapentin and pregabalin. They are nonnarcotic and work well in some people.

[skippy13]

Do some research on neuropathic pain. Sounds like that to me. I have it too. It is worse in the winter for me and a lot of other people on CC as well. DTA is right...do research on gabapentin and pregabalin (aka Lyrica). Seems to work for some people with neuropathic pain.

[dejerine]

sankofa

It is very hard for everyone, doctor and patient alike to decide whether a given pain is noxious (nociceptive) or neuropathic. If neuropathic, one must then decide whether it is from peripheral nerve injury or of central origin. Sitting in the murky middle are those injuries to peripheral nerve which cause effects in the central nervous system, so called "centralization of pain". The experts are not always careful to distinguish between central pain and centralization of pain. However, the difference may be important since many pains should be aggressively pursued. For example, most peripheral nerve injury pain is treatable while true central pain is a tougher business. Thus, the word "neuropain" more or less declares that one does not demand precision in diagnosis. I know the term is very frequently found here, but is not always helpful.

[Danine]

I would agree regarding Neurontin (Gabapentin). It helps a lot with this kind of pain. Also, anti-depressants can help along with some anti-anxiety drugs like Klonapine.

[6 Shooter]

10 hours under the Magnetic Molecular Energizer works much better--No pain, no prescription pills, no anti-depressants, no marijuana, no booze. Just relief of pain and no side effects.

[skippy13]

10 hours under the Magnetic Molecular Energizer works much better--No pain, no prescription pills, no anti-depressants, no marijuana, no booze. Just relief of pain and no side effects.

Cerebral palsy.org calls the magnetic energy treatments controversial with any results so far being purely anecdotal in nature. The devices are currently being tested, but at treatment costs of 50 dollars an hour with 200 hours recommended (according to the CP website) I'd say save your money. No insurance is going to pay for an unproven treatment with only anecdotal evidence of efficacy. If such treatment is proven scientifically to be of any value, I'm sure we will all hear about its miracle healing properties. Until such time however, IMO its is probably better to use scientifically accepted methods for pain relief.

A study was just completed by the clinical trials.gov website that has not yet been published. It was supposed to run from 2005 to Jan.2008. I will be looking for results if they even completed the study.

[6 Shooter]

I was referring to neuropathic pain relief for an SCI with 10 hours on the MME ($500). As your argument, you commented on treatment for Cerebral Palsy for 200 hours ($10,000). Just don't see the comparison as you do.

Two clinical trials in progress as posted on the Clinical Trials.gov website. Click below

http://www.clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/results?term=magnetic+molecular+energizer


The "scientifically accepted methods of pain relief" are asprin, tylenol, oxycotin, morphine, fentanyl, lycrica, percocet, lortab, oxycodone, and probably many others. All but asprin and tylenol are highly addictive and require increasing amounts over time to be effective. Eventually they are not effective as the body as grown accustom. Once accustom, you have to deal with the withdrawals. Yes, the scientifically accepted methods got you hooked for a long time.

You do have a valid point in that the MME is currently not insurance reimbursable. However, it is deductible as a medical expense on your income taxes. So is the travel to and from the treatment clinic as is meals for you and a caregiver if you have to go out of town for the treatment.

[dejerine]

6 shooter

Your post is interesting. Could you please tell specifically what pain you had (its nature and quality) and how fast the pain went away. Do you really have "no pain". That would be a miracle. After exhausting my funds, I stopped travelling around for miracles some time ago.

My experience with the magnet did nothing but part me from some funds. I had both the high gauss machine at a university as well as the commercial lower power treatment and felt absolutely nothing. I was ready to have the transcranial DC current therapy but the physician using it concluded it was not the cure and so decided not to continue.

Phrases such as "the MME helps tune the vibrations of the atoms of the body so they are in sync" does not correspond to any medical notions. Any magnetic field generated would cease as soon as the magnet is shut off. One cannot magnetize blood for example. although blood does contain iron.

The title "Magnetic Molecular Energizer" sounds like a marketing name, which makes me uneasy in a medical context. The website, healingwithmagnets.com, arguably a pro magnet site, says "None of these claims have been proven; conversely, few have been invalidated, so magnetic therapy remains in the limbo of uncertainty."

In the descriptions of MME, there seems to be a disconnect regarding the notion of dosage. Ordinarily, one would expect tailoring of dosage to severity of pain. However, the connect seems to be more along the lines of reimbursement/compensation. As in : A lot of money will buy a lot of pain relief, without specifying any criteria, other than you owe it to yourself not to live in pain, without explaining which kinds of pain we are talking about (noxious vs. neuropathic) and where the supporting studies are. Saying that the public is really going for something does not establish that the PUBLIC has what I have.

Dr. House's famous quote, "If I have a buttload of pain, I need a buttload of pills" refers to opiates and noxious pain. Opiates are relatively ineffective for central pain (except PERHAPS in a pump), so there House would say "a buttload of pills for noxious pain isn't much benefit for a buttload of central pain". See the difference? That is why I was hoping you could provide descriptions of your relieved symptoms.

Help me out, please, by relating what your pain is like. Is it central pain?

[6 Shooter]

Dejerine--The MME (magnetic molecular energizer) was actually used on my C-6 son with and incomplete injury, now 2 months shy of 3 years from original injury. He had neuropatic pain in his low back area that hurt all the time and he indicated that he could surely relate why some would need prescription pain meds with pain that intense. The onset was gradual and the pain slowly increased daily.

It was between school semesters that we had an opportunity to get back on the MME. His neuropathic pain went away the first 10 hours of treatment. The magnetic beam was focused on his neck at C-6. He actually spent over 200 hours under the MME during this session and regained full use of his wrists, regained feeling in his left butt and hamstring area, and the feeling in his fingers, hands, and thumbs have returned to normal for about 90 percent of the area of his hands. His finger tips are still a bit sensitive on some fingers. Read one of several of my posts

http://sci.rutgers.edu/forum/showthread.php?t=104011

The MME is a direct current magnetic field of about 5000 gauss that will pull a metal object from 5 feet away. It is an outside power source that amplifies the body's own healing processes. Stem cells migrate to where the beam if focused and replace damaged and dead cells. You can gain more info by going to www.amri-intl.com (http://www.amri-intl.com) and click on more information on the left side. The inventor has a 50 minute lecture that will provide lots of information. There are 4-5 clinics in the USA and one in Calgary. The MMEs are approved by the FDA as an investigational devise. Several clinical studies are underway, one for low back pain and the other on diabetic neuropathy. People who say the MME does not work are speaking from no basis in fact. The facts are in the AMRI data base which is restricted to only a few persons. The FDA will not allow advertising which is why the websites don't say much. One clinic was shut down already for this and other reasons.

The research behind the MMEs use was the same research used exhaustively for the MRI machines of 20,000 gauss. Language from documents in my son's case file indicate that extensive toxicity studies were performed prior to approval of the magnetic imaging devices and those instruments were classified as "not essentially harmful." No foreseeable adverse effects or untoward risks are anticipated during the course of administration of MME treatments. My son is certainly a testimate to those words as he has over 1800 hours of MME treatment with NO ADVERSE side effects. I also have to admit that we spent way too much money in the past on way too many hours during several 6 week sessions. At the time, no one knew how much MME time the body could actually use effectively. Based on my son's extensive time, treatments for SCI would be 175 hours maximum during any one treatment period with 6 months space between treatments to allow the body to build up a new supply of stem cells. The oldest clinic has been around for maybe 6 years now. The others maybe 2-3 years.

My main point is that those with neuropathic pain may benefit from a few hours of MME treatment as opposed to prescription pain meds. We all know that every injury and every human are different. Some heal quickly, others take longer for unknown reasons. There are no guarantees with the MME, the same goes for any other surgery performed by any doctor. Just reading the side effects on any prescription drug will give you an idea of how useful some of those products aren't!!

[dejerine]

6 shooter

Thanks for the link. 1 tesla equals 10,000 gauss MRI uses 1.5 tesla or greater. Ebay sold a .65 tesla machine for 10,000 a few years back. The first machines were weaker but are no longer used, except in certain foreign countries, who cannot afford new ones and are willing to ask the patient to hold still for up to a half hour or so, in order for image acquisition.

The many benefits promised for MME seem difficult to prove. Is there any chance your son's improvement was part of the natural history of healing after spinal injury. How long after injury was the treatment administered.

The claim at amri that a bone would heal in 2-3 days when normally it would require 6-8 weeks seems too good to be true.

Does Canadian healh service pay for this treatment? The price of 50/hr isn't unreasonable, You can't even get a massage for that. I just wonder how a magnetic field would heal the cord.

[6 Shooter]

6 shooter

Thanks for the link.

Is there any chance your son's improvement was part of the natural history of healing after spinal injury. How long after injury was the treatment administered.

The claim at amri that a bone would heal in 2-3 days when normally it would require 6-8 weeks seems too good to be true.

Does Canadian healh service pay for this treatment? The price of 50/hr isn't unreasonable, You can't even get a massage for that. I just wonder how a magnetic field would heal the cord.

In each of the 4 treatment sessions, we watched the changes occur right before our eyes during the second to third week of treatment. So no, I do not believe there was any chance my son's improvement was natural healing unrelated to the MME magnet.

My first son's treatment was 5 1/2 months post injury and we saw the most dramatic changes at that time with first finger and thumb movements, return of function of right triceps, and feeling returning to many parts of his body where no feeling had been present up to that point. Over time, the burning has turned to tingling and then to normal feeling.

Don't know about the Canadians paying for MME treatments. One way to get funds for treatment is to get friends and family interested in your case by sharing information and getting them excited about a new possible treatment for your loved one. Not hard to find 100 people to donate $100 each.

In my son's case, I believe the MME has reduced swelling, inflamation, and scar tissue. His MRI does show no protrusions into his dura and his neck bones healed well and straight. He does not have any neck movement limitations to speak of. The MRI does show a narrowing of his spinal cord which is why we have been to China twice for stem cell injections. Both of those treatments did not show as much change as the 4 MME treatment sessions.

Recall I was mentioning 10 hours of MME treatment to reduce or eliminate neuropathic pain as in my son's case. His treatment to help heal his spinal cord was maybe 175 hours of beneficial treatment each time for each of the 4 sessions he has had.

If you call the AMRI clinic in Calgary, they can give you some of the improvements noted in some of the cases reported in the data base. Questions can be answered. My understanding is that advertising cannot happen during the investigational timeframe.

[arndog]

Hi 6 shooter -
I was reading your post with interest and wondered if you could clarify a point for me. You note that "The MRI does show a narrowing of his spinal cord which is why we have been to China twice for stem cell injections". Does stem cell injections help with narrowing somehow?
Thanks for taking the time to clarify....
Jon

[6 Shooter]

Hi 6 shooter -
I was reading your post with interest and wondered if you could clarify a point for me. You note that "The MRI does show a narrowing of his spinal cord which is why we have been to China twice for stem cell injections". Does stem cell injections help with narrowing somehow?
Thanks for taking the time to clarify....
Jon

Jon-Don't know that for a fact yet as my son has not had a second MRI since going to China. Our plan now is to wait for the next 18 months until some of the China clinical trials are complete and reported on this forum which showed the most progress and change. We will then take advantage of those outcomes and make one more China trip or go somewhere where those most beneficial trials have been performed.

The current idea is to try to get the injected stem cells to collect and stay in the area of damage and not percolate all over the body. Dr. Young mentioned one method of injection into the spinal cord above and below the area of damage. In contrast, my son had the lumbar puncture method using umbilical cord blood cells that were processed and injected by Beike Biotech.

Will say that my son gained function using both the stem cell injection therapy and the MME therapy. At this point, his most beneficial and visible and obvious gains have come from the MME therapy. However, that may not be true for everyone. Each human body responds differently to each treatment for reasons only known to our creator. I know of some persons who had tremendous gains from stem cell injections--David Aldrich posted on this forum. My son has had tremendous gains using the MME therapy, but not as dramatic as David's gains.

Sorry to get off topic (pain) on this post, just responding to questions based on my knowledge and personal observations.

[rollin64]

My first son's treatment was 5 1/2 months post injury and we saw the most dramatic changes at that time with first finger and thumb movements, return of function of right triceps, and feeling returning to many parts of his body where no feeling had been present up to that point. Over time, the burning has turned to tingling and then to normal feeling.

not trying to downside anything but 5 1/2 months is VERY early post injury. that is A VERY, VERY SHORT TIME TO BE INJURED. i started moving a thumb and had no neuro pain at 5 mnths post injury. his body probly isn't over spinal shock good at 5 1/2 mnths post. there's a lot of room for return that early post.

The "scientifically accepted methods of pain relief" are asprin, tylenol, oxycotin, morphine, fentanyl, lycrica, percocet, lortab, oxycodone, and probably many others. All but asprin and tylenol are highly addictive and require increasing amounts over time to be effective. Eventually they are not effective as the body as grown accustom. Once accustom, you have to deal with the withdrawals. Yes, the scientifically accepted methods got you hooked for a long time.

i'd even be skeptical of this websites spelling of aspirin, oxycontin and accepted.

i hope it's working by all means, i just can't see it in the long run. especially as expensive.

[mike bauer]

I have TRIED IT all IN 5.5 YEARS OF hell> . from Neurontin so high doses it would put a cow to sleep. Im on Percoset and Pain patches... and that does little, but, better than nothing. Im of the tried everything oppionion, if your pain is super high nothing is going to really comfort you.... Unfortuantly, that's the world some of us live? It sucks... but those with little or no pain, just wil never get it. If you dont have it... you can't POSSIBLY get it. Its a pain thing!

[David Berg]

Mike, just out of curiousity, how high did you go on Neurontin? The highest I've heard of so far, from a couple of different people, is 9600mg/day. Obviously that's not appropriate for everyone.

[6 Shooter]

not trying to downside anything but 5 1/2 months is VERY early post injury. that is A VERY, VERY SHORT TIME TO BE INJURED. i started moving a thumb and had no neuro pain at 5 mnths post injury. his body probly isn't over spinal shock good at 5 1/2 mnths post. there's a lot of room for return that early post.

I agree with your point above. However, what I observed was my son had no triceps. If I lifted his arm up above his body while he was lying down, his forearm would drop to his chest. In the second week of MME treatment, on one of those days, he said "hey Dad, watch this" and he could straighten out his arm above his body while lying on his back. His tricep returned function that quick. The same week, he went from using special fork tools (with palm grips and aluminum hooks) to eat as he had no finger and thumb movement to picking up a regular fork at a restaurant to eat his dinner. He now had finger and thumb movement when the day we got to the MME clinic he only had a flicker of thumb and first finger movement on his right hand.

Please explain wrists now in full movement up, down, left and right at 2 years 10 months post. Again, it happened the second week of MME treatment. He also regained feeling in his left butt and the bottom half of his leg. His neuropathic pain went away in 10 hours, and his shoulder pain is now gone, all with magnetic treatment under the MME. And, my son takes no pain medication what's so ever.

This evening, he was doing situps at the Baylor Rehab outpatient gym. He was able to do 2 sets of 25 from a starting 30 degree incline. BTW, my son is a C-6 quad and I am one happy Dad watching the slow but sure change. He is nearly a para at this point.

[arndog]

I thought nerves grow at a millimeter a day. I am amazed that in 2 weeks of MME his tricep returned. That is amazing.