Would you be interested in touring the best SCI Research with the Top SCI Scientists?

[Wise Young]

Poll Question:

We have been planning our Rutgers Cure fundraiser for spinal cord injury research in October 2002 in NYC. Since 9/11, we have wanted to get the Cure community together. During the discussions, one innovative idea that seemed feasible was proposed but got a mixed reaction. I would like to see what members of this community think.

At the fundraiser event, we are considering auctioning travel/hotel packages with guided tours through the best spinal cord injury research at the Society for Neuroscience (SFN). The tours would be led by the top scientists in the field. As some of you know, the Society for Neuroscience is the largest gathering of neuroscientists who present their latest (usually not yet published) research on 8' by 10' posters in football field sized rooms at the convention center. Over 20,000 posters are presented over five days. Almost all spinal cord injury researcher will come to this meetin (I pray that no terrorist would target this meeting). The upcoming SFN meeting will be held in Disneyworld, Orlando in November 2002. In addition, the annual Neurotrauma meeting will be held nearby the week before the SFN meeting. Both of these meetings would contain the latest research on spinal cord injury.

I of course would volunteer to give such tours but other scientists (I haven't asked them yet but I hope that they would agree) that could give great tours, such as John McDonald (Wash U), Dennis Choi, Michael Beattie (OSU), Geoffrey Raisman (London), Almudena Ramon-Cuetos (Madrid), Paul Reier (UFG), Marie Filbin (Hunter CCNY), and Mary Bunge (Miami), etc. would be able to guide people through the spinal cord injury research that they consider the most significant and important at SFN.

To give scientists incentive to take on the tour guide job, I suggest that we will pay their airfare and hotel stay at the meeting, as well as 50% of the funds collected from people who choose to tour with them, to support their research. Since most of the scientists have to go and peruse the posters anyway, I don't think that this will interfere with what they normally do. They just have to work hard to explain the science to 5-10 inquisitive people. The tours probably should be limited to 10 people per tour guide per day.

I am thinking that the package would include first-class airfare and a week's stay at a good Disney hotel per person. We will work hard to get people to donate frequent flyer mileage for the airfare and try to convince Disney to give the lodging for free or at a substantial discount. If I am able to convince five top scientists to do the tour, this means that we may be able to host about 50 people. People who successfully bid for this package would be able to sign up for tours by different scientists on different days, as available.

If the bids average $4000 per person (which is close to the actual cost), this could bring in as much as $200,000 for spinal cord injury research. There was skeptism that there would be 50 people who would be interested. The actual cost of airfare and hotel probably will exceed $2000 per person. People can do fundraisers in their individual communities to raise the money. I am more worried about the people who fail to get winning bids but would like to come anyway. In such a case, I am thinking that these people may be able to come to the SFN at their own expense and I am thinking of giving people tours if they don't mind.

Would you be interested in such a package and how much you bid for such a package? Of course, all the proceeds of the auction (which will be held at the fundraiser event but we can allow people to bid over internet) will fund spinal cord injury research. Please add comments, if none of the choices below fit what you would like.

[This message was edited by Wise Young on Feb 24, 2002 at 02:53 PM.]

[Wise Young]

I am sorry, I posted the poll and then changed the choices a bit as I thought through the numbers. Since this is off-topic, I am thinking also of moving this to the Funding Forum. Wise.

[This message was edited by Wise Young on Feb 24, 2002 at 03:00 PM.]

[Chris Chappell]

be interested. Timing could work out well with other plans I'm trying to finalize.

Thanks.

[Jeff]

I also think I could prolly understand the posters without the guided tour. So, for me, I can stay at home and give myself a guided tour and save a few grand. OTOH, getting in a tour group with one of those OEG researchers might be a good idea. Hopefully, it would allow us easier access to a clinical trial down the road! Damn, I'm excited! We usually get all the great computer conferences and sometimes disability shows here in Orlando but having SFN is going to be absolutely fantastic. http://sci.rutgers.edu/forum/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

Dr. Young, how much for the guided tour if we live in Orlando and don't need the air/hotel?

~See you at the SCIWire-used-to-be-paralyzed Reunion http://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/smilie/wavey.gif ~

[etexley]

Could we get Dr. Carl Kao and Albert Bohbot to be present? I think it would be very important to get a mixed set of voices.

Eric Texley

[Wise Young]

Eric, the point is not for people to present their own work but rather what they consider to be good work by others.

Jeff, this is a fundraising mechanism. See above for what I said about people who don't get winning bids.

Wise.

[This message was edited by Wise Young on Feb 24, 2002 at 07:55 PM.]

[antiquity]

This is an excellent idea, I'll definitely be there! But I'm confused, if the purpose is to raise money to bring in scientists to lead tours, the money will be spent on them, right, not on SCI research?

[Wise Young]

seneca,

It is a way of raising research funds. I am attracted by the idea because it gives a way for scientists to help raise money for research.

At fundraising events, they are always auctioning off trips to southern France, skyboxes in Yankee stadiums... by the way, people bid as much as $20,000 for a box of 10 people... or $2000 for a dinner for two at some fancy restaurant... these items are usually donated by people who have some connection to the place or service. People obviously are bidding more than the value of the item because they want to support research.

Here is how it might work. Say that I donate and try to convince other people that I know to donate frequent flyer miles to an event to buy a couple airplane tickets. Maybe we can swing some kind of deal with Disney to give us hotel rooms. This way, the costs of the trip would be covered. What I don't know is whether I would be able to convince busy researchers to take a couple of afternoons off at a neuroscience meeting to guide people around. That is why I am toying around with incentives. Say, a popular and well-known scientist leads 10 people on tour during the meeting. If people paid $4000 apiece, that could potentially raise $40,000. If we decide (and this depends on what people consider this to be worth) to give half of the amount to fund spinal cord injury research in that scientist's laboratory, the scientist would be able to get $20,000 for spinal cord injury research in his/her lab.

The advantage is that people who donate the frequent flyer miles would get a tax deduction. The people who buy would be able to get a tax deduction of the value of the bid above the value of the airfare and hotel. At the same time, these people would get a trip to Disney that they would probably end up paying several thousand for anyway (if they are flying there and staying in a hotel), get a guided tour of research at the Society for Neuroscience, and have some fun.

By the way, some people may not understand the concept of posters... Many people think that a poster is just something hanging on a wall. At SFN, the scientists who authored the poster can be there at the poster to explain their work. The scientist guiding the tour would select the poster that he/she thinks are the best, contact the authors of the poster, and ask them to be there at a given time. This way, people can hear about the latest work directly from the mouth of the scientists, postdoctoral fellows, or students who made the poster. This is something that money cannot easily buy. Christopher Reeve got such a tour of the SFN about two years ago by Dennis Choi who was the President of the SFN at the time. I think that Christopher was really impressed by the work that was going on and asked a lot of questions of the students who presented the posters.

We obviously would not want to offer such packages for the auction, if nobody would bid for it or it would not bring in much funds, because it takes a lot of hard work to to arrange such packages.

Wise.

[This message was edited by Wise Young on Feb 24, 2002 at 09:46 PM.]

[Jeff]

The idea is to offer a competitive value to those wishing to attend. By securing airfare for bidders using donated frequent flyer miles and using donated hotel rooms, the bids can be used to fund research with only a small portion used to finance the costs for researchers who will be giving tours.

I think this is a fantastic idea. Not only will it involve the community in the latest research but it will involve today's researchers in the community. What a stroke of genius. I think providing air/hotel for the researchers doing the tours is a great way to show them our appreciation. And hopefully it will engender good will that will extend beyond SFN. Maybe they will even be more likely to maintain ties to the community and possibly come and answer questions on our forums.

Dr. Young has graciously offered to tour those of us at the conference who do not bid on the package. I think any of us in this category should give a nominal $100 to help with the effort.

I love ideas like this. I wish we had 15,000 members here instead of 1,500. I think it would make it easier to make these things come to fruition. It does, however, give me great hope for the incredible things we'll be able to do as we go forward. The possibilities are endless.

~See you at the SCIWire-used-to-be-paralyzed Reunion http://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/smilie/wavey.gif ~

[Sue Pendleton]

I'm with Jeff except I don't live in Orlando. We would drive because of the hassles of flying--even first class (and the in-laws live near by). So how about offering a hotel/tour package along with flight/hotel and tour? But yes, I'd definetely bid. I'll even help nag the other scientists into doing the tours. http://sci.rutgers.edu/forum/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

[rbyrd49100]

I think it is a great idea...also why not have one of the packages available as a "lottery"? ..with at least 40 people buying $100 tickets or 100 people buying 40.00 tickets...either way, the winner would win a free trip etc and help fund research as well:)

Russ Byrd

[chimera]

I would love to do this! Keep us posted.

[Polett]

Dr. Young, I can't afford a package but, since I've never been to a convention like this I'd like to know: Is this open to the general public? Can we c, talk, listen or whatever to u and other researchers? I live in S.Florida and would love to go there, actually, after reading your post, we started planning the trip. How does it work?
(Me and my million questions http://sci.rutgers.edu/forum/images/smilies/eek.gif )

Me.

[Carl R]

What is the exact date of the conference? How much the you think would be tax deductible if the price is $4,000?

I have no problem with flying, but my wife was very leery before September the 11th, much less now. I wonder if Amtrak goes from Houston to Orlando. . . Will have to check.

[Wise Young]

Carl R,

According to the rules of the IRS, one must get an estimate of market price of the value of the bid item and anything over that bid can be deducted. If it is an economy fare, let's say that it is $500 for a round-trip and say $100 per day for 5 room•days, that would add up to $1000.

I will ask Patricia Morton to comment.

Wise.

[PN]

I had to read this two times before I completely understood what it was that you were trying to accomplish. First, you are trying to find people who are interested in spinal cord research and have them pay $4,000 to go to Orlando for a spinal cord injury conference. Second, the real cost is actually $2,000 per person and you make money by, say, starting off the bidding at $2,000, hoping that it will reach or surpass $4,000. Third, you are dubious that you can actually get 50 people to bid and pay the $4,000 to attend this conference and receive the guided tours of the research. Fourth, the bidding will take place at Rutgers University and also online.

For most people who are in wheelchairs, traveling is difficult and most of us do not have the disposable income that is necessary to attend this conference. This seems to be geared for the upper middle class who have an interest in spinal cord research because they have a family member who is in a wheelchair.

I think if it's well-marketed you could reach your goal and get 50 people at $4,000 each. I also think that there have to be better ways to raise money for spinal cord research.

PN

[Tara]

I would be in. Not only would you learn some of the new innovative things that are being done in SCI research, but you would be able to meet the people doing them. To me this experience in itself would be worth the money and more.

[Carl R]

what is the date of the conference?

[Wise Young]

http://www.sfn.org/
The Society for Neuroscience meeting will be on November 2-7, 2002 in Orlando, Florida.

http://www.edc.gsph.pitt.edu/neurotrauma/
The first joint International and National Neurotrauma Society meeting will be held on October 27 to November 1, 2002 in Saddlebrook Resort, Tampa, Flordia.

[Wise Young]

PN, thanks very much for your feedback. I appreciate it and also apologize for the complicated presentation of the idea. In fact, I think that one of the major drawbacks to the idea is that it is too complicated. Anything that requires so much explanation will be difficult to market. Some people's reaction to this idea is that it must be some kind of scam because it looks like somebody is profitting from this.

Please understand also that I am worried about getting scientists to volunteer to do this. Why would a scientist take the time to tour a bunch of people around a meeting? In fact, I don't think that you can find scientists who would be willing to do this for pay. However, they might do it because they care for the spinal cord injury community and maybe because they have a graduate student in the laboratory that they can support by spending an afternoon or two with the community.

By the way, that would be my reaction if somebody asked me to do something like this. A graduate student costs about $25,000 per year to support (stipend plus tuition). If somebody tells me that they will pay me $2000 a day to give them private tours of the Society for Neuroscience, I would say no, thank you. On the other hand, if somebody said that they would support a student or a fellow to work on spinal cord injury in my lab or some other lab, if I would volunteer an afternoon or two to tour them around, I would probably say yes. That is why I am thinking that this whole idea depends on what people think that this is worth.

Wise.

[Wise Young]

Polett,

The Society for Neuroscience welcomes non-scientist visitors. People would have to register. I think that the typical registration fees are about $280 for five days but there are discounts for people who come in as guests of members. Last year, over 28,000 scientists and exhibitors (companies that are showing their wares) attended the meeting in San Diego. The meeting has lectures (usually 500-1000 people), talks (usually 50-100 people), and posters.

The posters are 8' by 10' boards lined in in rows in football size convention halls. The posters are put up by scientists who wish to present their latest results for other scientists to see and discuss. They are typically up for 4 hours and there are posters sessions going from morning to evening. The authors usually stand by their posters to present the results and answer questions. A popular poster may be visited by hundreds of people.

There were over 22,000 posters last year. This is way too much to see. You can spend 5 minutes on each poster for 8 hours and still see fewer than 500 posters in 5 days. There were about 280 posters or talks related to spinal cord injury research last year. For a person who may not know the field and all the names involved, i.e. who is good and has a hot story to tell, a scientific tour guide would be very useful. Last year, I took several people in wheelchairs through the posters on two of the afternoons.

I have been attending this meeting since the early 1970's when there were only 400 members of the society. In those days, everybody knew everybody else. Now, of course, it is a zoo. It is both the best and the worst of neuroscience, all crammed into five days once a year. After 2-3 days, I am usually exhausted, both by the onslaught of information and by the bombardment of people. On the other hand, it is a time when you can buttonhole scientists and ask them questions about their work and to present your own work to get the reaction of other scientists. Many of the posters contain the latest data, often up to the week before the meeting. The abstracts for the meeting are submitted in April. The Society usually posts a complete database of the abstracts in July or August, so that people can start planning for the meeting.

To prepare people for this meeting last year, I did an analysis of the spinal cord injury studies and highlighted a bunch that I thought was useful: http://carecure.rutgers.edu/spinewire/Research/SFN_summary.html

Wise.

[Wise Young]

This year, for the first time, the International and the National Neurotrauma Society will be holding a joint meeting. I had helped found the National Neurotrauma Society in 1987 and the International Neurotrauma Society in 1991. Usually the annual National Neurotrauma Society meeting is two days long while the International Neurotrauma Society meeting is held every two years and is four days long.

The National (U.S.) Neurotrauma Society meets annually, usually the weekend before the Society for Neuroscience meeting, has about 600 members, composed of all the active U.S. researchers in brain and spinal cord injury. It usually goes for two days with talks and posters. Almost all significant U.S. research on brain and spinal cord injury will be presented at this meeting. This year, however, because it is a joint meeting with the International Neurotrauma Society, it will be five days long.

The International Neurotrauma Society has 700-1000 members, mostly from Europe and Asia, and some Americans, who meet every two years. The previous meetings were in Japan, Scotland, Canada, and Germany. I suspect that over 1000 scientists will attend. People with spinal cord injuries are welcome at both meetings. Usually at least several dozen people with spinal cord injury attend the National Neurotrauma Society meeting. I am thinking that the Neurotrauma meeting might be a better meeting to take people on a tour because all the work presented would be relevant. I think that it is only about 2 hours drive to Orlando. Many of the scientists who will be attending the Tampa meeting will go to the Orlando meeting.

It will be a unique experience. I don't think that I have ever been to two back-to-back meetings, each five days long, presenting everything there is on neurotrauma and neuroscience. A veritable smorgasborg and a total overdose. I will be trying to get most of my students and fellows to submit abstracts so that they can go present their results at the meeting.

Wise.

[This message was edited by Wise Young on Feb 26, 2002 at 02:55 AM.]

[Wise Young]

I just moved this topic from cure to funding forum because it is more related to the latter.

[Sue Pendleton]

Ok, take my name off the bidding block. That's the same time we're going to Bermuda with friends on a cruise. I definetly want to see all the items up for auction on the internet too. Cody Unser's Mom beat me to Madonna's Drowned World Tour jacket last year at the TMA fundraiser. http://sci.rutgers.edu/forum/images/smilies/frown.gif