Australian: No changes to stem-cell bill: premiers

[Wise Young]

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5744,4926411%255E2702,00.html

No changes to stem-cell bill: premiers
By Deborah Hope
August 19, 2002

ANY changes to the proposed laws on embryonic stem-cell research would not be tolerated by the states, three premiers warned yesterday.
Â*Advertisement
Federal parliament is due to consider the laws this week.

The premiers of NSW, Queensland and Victoria have written to John Howard, stating they will not support substantial changes to the proposed laws allowing research on surplus IVF embryos.

This raises the possibility of the three states legislating separately to allow the research if it is hampered at a national level.

The letter to the Prime Minister, to be delivered by NSW Premier Bob Carr in Canberra today, says the warning applies to any changes that extend the scope of the law, limit research opportunities or prevent the promised "meaningful" review of the legislation within three years.

Debate on the Research Involving Embryos and Prohibition of Human Cloning Bill is due to begin in federal parliament tomorrow.

All parties have agreed to allow a conscience vote.

At the Council of Australian Governments meeting in April, the three states agreed with Mr Howard on uniform national laws for embryonic stem-cell research that would ban all forms of human cloning but allow research on excess IVF embryos frozen before April 5.

The letter from Mr Carr, Queensland Premier Peter Beattie and Victorian Premier Steve Bracks "notes with some concern" the Prime Minister's stated unwillingness to oppose any move to split the legislation into two bills, one prohibiting human cloning and other unacceptable practices, and the other regulating research involving embryos.

Such a move, they say, "is not consistent with the spirit of our agreement at COAG".

"Governments have a responsibility to act to alleviate human suffering and preserve human dignity," the premiers write.

"It is for this reason we are each committed to ensuring constructive and responsible research can be carried out in our respective states."

Mr Carr will join Opposition Leader Simon Crean at a press conference in Canberra this morning to urge federal MPs to support the stem-cell bill.

The NSW Premier is heading a delegation that includes some of the top names in the pro-embryonic stem-cell research lobby.

They include prominent researchers Alan Trounson and Bernie Tuch and representatives of the Coalition of Australian Medical Research Foundation.

Among those lobbying against the bill will be two US experts\ David Prentice of the University of Indiana and Stanford ethicist William Hurlbut, one of 18 members of US President George W. Bush's Council on Bio-ethics.

[dogger]

i have sent an email to my local federal politician urging him to consider the implications this research could have for SCI people before voting on this issue .
dogger

[Wise Young]

http://news.crosswalk.com/partner/Article_Display_Page/0,,PTID74088|CHID194343|CIID1149220,00.html


Supporters, Critics Lobby Furiously Ahead Of Embryo Research Debate
By Patrick Goodenough
Pacific Rim Bureau Chief
August 20, 2002

www.CNSNews.com (http://www.CNSNews.com) - Pacific Rim Bureau (CNSNews.com) - As Australia's parliament prepared Tuesday to debate legislation that would legalize the use of human embryos for medical research, campaigners on both sides of an increasingly emotional issue brought out the big guns in a bid to win over wavering lawmakers.

Leading U.S. experts, including a member of President Bush's council on bioethics, urged lawmakers to reject legislation that would allow researchers to obtain stem cells from embryos, which are destroyed in the process.

They were joined by Australian scientists and ethicists arguing for the use instead of "adult" stem cells from other sources. These cells, they said, were already being used to treat patients, while the potential therapeutic benefits of embryonic cells remained the subject of speculation.

Spearheading the other side of the debate was an Australian pioneer in reproductive technologies, Prof. Alan Trounson, and state premiers who warned they would pass laws allowing the research in their states irrespective of the outcome of federal legislation.

Trounson said in an earlier television debate that embryos were "clearly human," but pointed out that Australian authorities already permit abortion and abortifacient methods like the morning-after-pill and IUD.

"What suddenly tells us that the five- or six-day embryo is outside the boundaries of what we already accept that we can destroy or not allow to implant? It just doesn't make sense to me."

Bob Carr, the premier of New South Wales - Australia's most populous state - held a press conference Monday flanked by a 12-year old diabetic and a sufferer of motor neurone disease (also known as ALS or Lou Gehrig's disease) in a wheelchair.

Also present were the parents of two year-old Luke Alderton, who expressed the hope embryonic stem cells may one day help treat the rare spinal disease that has paralyzed him from the neck down.

Scientists pushing embryonic stem cell research say treatments for these diseases and others may one day be possible if the work is legalized and encouraged, and Carr said he was offended by those who would deny patients the potential of a cure.

But critics Tuesday slammed Carr for the presentation, saying he was giving ill people false hope.

"Carr asserts that embryo stem cells are needed to cure Luke's paralysis. He is wildly mistaken, he is misleading patients and giving them false hope," said Dr. David van Gend of Do No Harm, a group campaigning for ethical medical research and care.

He accused Carr of exploiting the community's pity for a small child "to further a science of pitiless destruction of even littler members of the human family" - human embryos.

Leading critics of embryonic research say the work is both unethical and risky.

They include David Prentice, professor of life sciences at Indiana State University, who is in Canberra this week to put the case for research using adult stem cells.

Embryonic stem cells have a nasty habit of forming tumors when injected into experimental animals," he said.

One in five rats injected with embryonic stem cells during research last January into possible treatments for Parkinson's disease died from brain tumors.

By contrast, adult cells have already been found effective in treating a range of conditions, from Parkinson's to sickle cell anemia and immune deficiencies, Prentice said.

These are "real patients, real therapies based on real animal successes," van Gend noted, "not the second rate embryonic failure, which is as likely to kill the animal with tumors as it is to relieve any symptoms."

Among the other opponents of the research who are lobbying in Canberra is Prof. William Hurlbut of Stanford University, a member of the President's Council on Bioethics - a panel of 17 doctors, scientists and ethicists advising Bush on controversial bioethical issues.
'Panic'
Federal lawmakers from the two main parties, Prime Minister John Howard's Liberals and the official opposition Labor, have been given a conscience vote on the legislation - the first time this has happened since another contentious ethical issue was placed before parliament in 1996.

Then, lawmakers overturned the world's first euthanasia law, under which four patients in Australia's Northern Territory had taken their lives.
The legislation under consideration this week has two main functions - to outlaw human cloning, and to legalize stem cell research using human embryos created during in-vitro fertilization (IVF) treatment, but not wanted by their parents.

Observers say the Bill is thought likely to pass in the lower House of Representatives, but could come unstuck in the Senate.

Opponents of embryo research plan to push for the two aspects of the Bill to be split, to enable quick passage of the cloning ban - which has overwhelming support - while allowing them to vote against the embryonic research provisions.

Howard said he would allow his party's members a free vote on the issue of splitting the two issues, but Labor leader Simon Crean drew fire from inside his own party Monday when he voiced reluctance to do the same.

"It just seems to me that people supporting the passage of the bill might be starting to panic," said Joe de Bruyn, a conservative pro-lifer who heads a Labor trade union.

Labor supporters of embryonic stem cell research have acknowledged that separating the two main parts of the Bill would make passage of the embryo provisions more difficult.

New South Wales premier Carr, who said he also opposed the splitting tactic, also warned that if the federal parliament didn't legalize embryonic research, he would introduce legislation in New South Wales allowing the work to continue there.

The premiers of two other states, Victoria and Queensland, have taken a similar stance.

Australia has six states and two territories, but three-quarters of the 19.6 million population live in New South Wales, Victoria and Queensland.

[Wise Young]

Sigh.

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5744,4941634%255E2702,00.html


Cell study evil: Anderson
By Deborah Hope and Misha Schubert
August 21, 2002

EMBRYONIC stem-cell research inevitably would open the door to therapeutic cloning, and would assist researchers with "deep and evil intent", Deputy Prime Minister John Anderson claimed last night.

The National Party leader's plea to parliament for a ban on embryonic research came during the opening debate on the Government's bill to ban human cloning and regulate embryo stem-cell research under a national system.

But in an equally charged address, Labor leader Simon Crean asked the house to boost the chances of finding cures for debilitating illnesses, including motor neurone disease, Alzheimer's and Parkinson's.

"We can never be sure just where and when these breakthroughs will come, but we do know they will only come if research is allowed to proceed," Mr Crean said.

Eight of the 10 MPs who debated the bill last night argued for research to proceed. But South Australian Liberal MP Christopher Pyne said embryo research was "a perversity of the IVF program that sickens me".

Earlier, Industry Minister Ian Macfarlane had warned the debate over embryonic stem-cell research was at risk of disintegrating into an "interstate bun fight".

Mr Macfarlane also accused some opponents of a national approach to the research of lying about the likely effect to bring about the bill's defeat.

"Earlier this month, I watched an audience swallow the argument . . . that cloning would proceed under this bill and that it would also allow unrestricted experimentation," he said.

"That's simply and totally incorrect."

The main threat to the legislation, however, Mr Macfarlane said in a dinner address to AusBiotech2002, came from disunity among "the very scientists who support research using embryonic stem cells".

"Remember, disunity is death," he said.

Manoeuvring on the controversial legislation continued yesterday; Labor MPs unanimously rejecting a proposal by Tony Abbott, the Government leader in the House of Representatives, to send the bill to a committee, rather than debating it on the floor of the house.

But Mr Abbott's plan will prevail with the support of government MPs.

Opponents of embryonic research have also been lobbying for the legislation to be split into two bills: one that bans human cloning, for which there would be unanimous support, and another to allow research on embryos that would otherwise be destroyed.

Victorian Liberal MP Bruce Billson, an advocate of the bill, said last night he would move to split the legislation.

"The idea of a conscience vote is something I think needs to be treasured and respected, and I will signal that if not I, then someone with my active support will be moving a splitting of the bill," he said. If the move succeeds it will be the first time the house has split a bill.

[dogger]

i think i have worked out why John Anderson and his cronies feel that only adult stem cells should be used in research . my understanding is that stem cells occurr at the base of the brain , an organ politicians don't possess . by allowing this legislation they are ensuring there is no way they would ever have to give anything to anyone else , and we all know politicians are ''takers'' not ''givers'' . the average politician would not give the general population the stink from their farts !
dogger

[robyne]

Do either of you think weve got any hope in hell of getting this thrue parliment or is it just wishfull thinking ??? I know that the good doc probally doesnt "get" our laws .. but holy hell dogger ...ive had a gutfull of this crap and wish the nationals and their cronies would step aside and just let the scientists get on with it !!!!! then i will see you at the Princess Alexandra Hospital ....ahhhhh the dream continues !!!

[Wise Young]

For over a year now, I have listened to and tried my best to understand the positions of those who oppose human embryonic stem cell research. It is not easy because every time you try to come out with a compromise to appease their moral objections, they come up with a new argument often based on misinformation. They are simply not willing to compromise and therefore it may have to come a test of democracy. Unfortunately, public opinion sometimes depends on who yells the loudest and has gets the most media attention. Thus, the battle has become one of public relations.

Scientists when they testify are often dismissed because they may be benefitting from research funding. That is one of the reasons why I have been speaking out (since I do not receive any funding to do human embryonic stem cell research and therefore cannot be accused of speaking out for monetary reasons). People with disabling conditions who may benefit from embryonic stem cell research are also sometimes dismissed as being selfish.

There are times that test my faith in democracy. Common sense and most bioethicists and people believe, for example, that it is better to use cells from eggs or aborted fetuses that are about to be trashed. Yet, we lost the battle on that issue in the United States. In the U.S., there is a deadlock over the issue of cloned embryonic stem cells. I suspect that the same may happen in Australia. Both sides are getting more polarized and unable to come to the middle ground because they are afraid that if they give an inch, they will lose a foot.

I keep hoping that Australia would set an example for the world by undertaking a reasoned debate over the issue and coming out with a compromise solution that both sides could agree on.

Wise.

[dogger]

i heard on the wireless a while ago that Professor Alan Trounson [probably our strongest pro ESC speaker ] has admitted that some of the videotape footage that has been shown gives the wrong impression of ESC research . [ i think i have this correct i am doing this from memory ] . there were howls of derision from the anti ESC side .i received a reply from my local member about his voting , and verbatim i will quote it '' dear peter thank you for your email regarding the debate on embronic stem cell . i can assure you i will be supporting the legislation . i also know some of my constituents will disagree with this position . yours in support . [name supplied ] ''
Robyne , like you i have had a gutful of these windbags pushing their own personal beliefs on this , instead of whether or not the voters want this research implemented to improve quality of life . by the way my local member is a national and i am a card carrying member [just wish i could get John Anderson and Ron Boswell to see sense ! http://sci.rutgers.edu/forum/images/smilies/frown.gif
thank you
dogger

[robyne]

Dogger, hope i didnt offend you with my nationals comment http://sci.rutgers.edu/forum/images/smilies/frown.gif...after todays shit fight in our capital ,and seeing the holier than thou attitude of John anderson ,i wanted to cry ,i just wish i had thwe arm strengh to shake him . I live in Larry Anthonys electrate , tomorrow i will be sending him a fax , any suggestions would be gratefully accepted . Bob Carr has told them in federal parliment to bically stick it ... we will go it alone , i am under the impression that your premier is saying the same , have you heard this ??????????? I love reading your posts , i laugh and laugh , by the way dop you grow mangoes ,? ive also heard we are in for a bumper summer !!!!!!!!

[robyne]

Please excuse the spelling mistakes ... half way thru typing , the cat went crazy and i had kids going nuts .... the joys of nighttime.

[dogger]

Robyne , even though i am a member of the national party they drive me to anger and drink quite often [ normally about 6 pm every day ] . regarding faxing Larry Anthony , i would suggest keeping it short [politicians don't have a very long attention span unless a T.V. camera is involved ] state that you are a Quad in a chair and Embryonic Stem Cells have the possibility to provide a quality of life that you and other spinal injured people are currently lacking .would he please carefully consider this potential before voting on this legislation . i think something along these lines would be ok , then finish with something like , i look forward to hearing from you when you reach a decision . it was a bit easier for me , i've personally known my member for over 15 years , he came and saw me in hospital , and he knows i will ask him after the vote which way he jumped . hope this helps .Peter Beatty says the same as Bob Carr , that they will go it alone .
sorry i don't grow mangoes , it gets too cold here , only had our last frost last week .
dogger