Problem buying a new house

[Quad62]

I am facing a bit of a problem in my accessible house search. After looking around, we have found a one-story floor plan we like. It is a new subdivision under construction. We asked the builder for some changes for accessibility. They agreed to widen some doors and add some ramps upon advance payment which we don’t have a problem with. However, after much consultation between the sales staff and their superiors, the sales staff has told us that they will not change the shower to a roll-in shower. They will only add a shower bench to their standard walk-in shower. Their shower floor is about four inches higher than bathroom floor. As such it is not usable for me in the present design. It is big enough to be replaced with ADA compliant roll-in shower. The lot we want our house built on is just dirt right now.

I am frustrated that they are unwilling to accommodate a small but crucial change for me. They have provided me with a copy of Universal Design Checklist pursuant to California law. It says the Seller may not make all the “universal design features” generally available to all Buyers. It says further: “Please let your sales agent know if you are interested in a universal design feature that is listed as “not available” on the Checklist. Seller will consider such requests on a case by case basis.” In the Checklist accessible (roll-in) shower status is shown as “Limited”, not even “not available”.

What are my options here? How can I solve this problem? Does anybody have any experience with this? TIA

[sjean423]

If they is this hard to deal with NOW, I would find something else. You want a builder you can work with. This group will just be more of a headache as you continue.

[SCI-Nurse]

Did you agree to pay for the added costs of the roll-in shower (lowering the floor is expensive) and they still said no? How about having them leaving that space unfinished and you getting an outside contractor to finish it once you take possession? I doubt if you are going to get anywhere expecting them to make the shower roll-in for no additional charges since they really only have to make the doorway wide enough for your access to the bathroom.

(KLD)

[Scott Pruett]

The lot we want our house built on is just dirt right now.
Find another builder, providing the current one doesn't have rights to the subdivision.

[Foolish Old]

Very good advice given here. I was not able to get my builder to give me any acceptable shower options. He did finally agree to delete several of the bathroom options and provide me with a small discount for the deletions. I managed to get a certificate of occupancy, and later construct the custom roll-in shower of my own design.

This was typical of the relationship I had with that builder. For a variety of reasons, I continued to work with this builder even after I realized we did not see eye to eye. The project turned out okay, but there was aggravation at every turn. NOTHING was easy. Should have listened to my own warnings. Instead, I talked myself into working with a builder I knew would be trouble.

[Quad62]

Thank you all.

sjean423, Scott, unfortunately I can't change the builder. They own the land and are building houses to sell. I haven't checked, but I am sure a lot alone is not for sale. Even if I could, getting a lot and then hiring a private builder would be a huge management hassle for me. :cry:

KLD, FO, of course, I have agreed to pay additional costs up front at contract signing even at the risk of forfeiture if my loan doesn't go through for any reason. I will explore with them the option of unfinished bathroom, but the sales agent had indicated to me earlier that they have to sell the house finished and ready to occupy. It was in a different context though, having to do with putting no carpets on so we could add wheelchair friendly laminate flooring on the bare concrete slab.

I still can't believe that they can refuse a very easy reasonable and compensated for accommodation for a disability, and I have no help from ADA or anything except the goodness of their heart. SCI is certainly no fun. :(

[2jazzyjeff]

If you can't change builders, change neighborhoods!! You mentioned in the original post that it'sa small deal. Actually this is a huge deal as demo on the new could get expensive. Plus, staying with this builder already shows signs of non-cooperation.. your changes shouldn't be this big of a pain. Tell them your loan didn't gothru and find someone else more cooperative.

[Quad62]

Thanks 2jazzyjeff. Changing neighborhood is the FINAL option. I wish it were not though, because everything else about this house checks out. Unfortunately, here in my neck of the woods, even in this housing downturn, all the new developers I have run into have very similar attitude to accessibility changes.

[SoFla]

You are only asking to have your home built with the accessibility you require. This is an ADA issue, since the builder is refusing an accesible shower, and insisting on carpets. The agent may not be versed on ADA. Mention that they are leaving themselves open to a federal lawsuit by denying your requests.

[Quad62]

SoFla, thanks. I am not well versed in ADA either. However, so far no one has said with any surety from their knowledge/experience that ADA requires the developer to accommodate the changes I need. I will try to find out and see where it leads. About the carpets, they have a tile/hardwood upgrade available. So, that is not a problem.

[JenJen]

Actually, this is NOT an ADA issue, it's a Fair Housing Act issue. I am not as well-versed in FHA as ADA but here's a couple links to look through...

http://www.hud.gov/offices/fheo/disabilities/pwd.cfm
http://www.usdoj.gov/crt/housing/title8.htm

Talk to your realtor or an attorney that handles realty-related issues. You may have some leverage you're unaware of. OTOH, you may not. IDK.

[Quad62]

JenJen, thanks for the FHA link. It was really helpful. Section 804 says "it shall be unlawful to discriminate in the sale or rental, or to otherwise make unavailable or deny, a dwelling to any buyer or renter because of a handicap.." It says further, "discrimination includes a refusal to permit, at the expense of the handicapped person, reasonable modifications of existing premises occupied or to be occupied by such person if such modifications may be necessary to afford such person full enjoyment of the premises." The Act does not apply to a single family house sold/rented by an owner provided the owner does not own more than 3 such houses at any time. So, the subdivision developer would not be exempt from the Act. I would think that a curbless shower would be considered a reasonable modification rather than an unreasonable one. I will try to find more.

Please post if anybody has any thoughts/experience with this issue. Thanks.

[SoulScream]

Perhaps try asking if they would leave the bathroom unfinished for a reduction in the house cost so you could use that money to hire someone that would actually build what you want.

[JenJen]

Contact your local CIL (http://www.virtualcil.net/cils/), they should have an advocate that can help you put together information that sets the builder straight. Your realtor should be able to help with this too but they may be too close to the builder to be much use.

[Sue Pendleton]

Contact your local CIL (http://www.virtualcil.net/cils/), they should have an advocate that can help you put together information that sets the builder straight. Your realtor should be able to help with this too but they may be too close to the builder to be much use.

I'd go through both your CIL and get DBTAC involved as the builder is a business.

It is a law as far as HUD goes, I recently found out, that homes without finished floors cannot be used as section 8 housing. I'll make a bet that if you contact the building code folks in your home's county you'll find you may need an exception to code for several of the items they are argueing about. So find out and offer to walk through the paperwork yourself. If there is an attached garage make sure any step is apart of this step. Almost everywhere insists there be a step up to the house from the garage.

And if you want some really cool floors do some searching on HGTV's web site. I saw an episode of one of their shows where a ranch was converted to look more NYC loft like and had a dyed and sealed smooth cement floor poured with a matching slab done for the kitchen island/bar. The colors and random pattern was somewhat like marble but more artsy.

[JenJen]

Quad62 -- how did this all turn out? Did you buy the house after all? How did your mods turn out?

[peegy p]

I was able to solve the step-up in the garage problem with my builder. My water heater and furnace are located in the garage. The builder mentioned that local fire code ordinances required a height difference between the main floor and these 2 appliances (gas water heater, gas furnace). His solution was to grade the floor of the garage thus eliminate the step into the house [my garage door opens up into my laundry room and kitchen] and placing both the water heater and furnace on a raise platform with metal/cement pylons (? 3 1/2 foot column) infront of the platform. These pylons keep my car from running into the water heater and furnace.

[JenJen]

I'd love to see pix Peegy

[peegy p]

Jen Jen
I am planning on buying a digital camera soon. Once I figure everything out, I will post some pictures.

[Sue Pendleton]

Here the step up from the garage is not fire code but part of county code to reduce carbon monoxide transfer to the rest of the house as it's heavier than air. This is the sole remaining step in our place because we have a single car garage and no room for a lift or ramp. We use the garage as storage and park in the drive.

Some counties give exceptions fairly easily to many code items while others fight tooth and nail to disallow them. If you get an exception keep it with your house deed in a safe deposit box because you'll need it to sell the place. And be aware that you might want to show up on site the days these items are done/poured as the contractor may know but his crew probably just does what they always do.

[Riz]

I had the same problems recently when I purchased a new home in NJ. I gave the builder a list of modifications that I wanted done, the biggest being the bathroom which was not accessible at all, and asked them to please give me the additional costs for doing them. They told me they would not make any modifications at all. So I said that I would call my attorney and get back to them with my legal rights under ADA compliance. That was all it took, they said tell us what you need done. I told them what I wanted done and they gave me the additional costs.

You have rights, don't let get away with doing nothing, or as little as they possibly can. I even called the township building office because the builder at one point told me the home plan was already approved at the township and could not be changed. It all BS they just don't want to be inconvenienced in any way.

Good luck, and don't give in.

Riz
C-5 incomplete

[cheesecake]

SoFla, thanks. I am not well versed in ADA either. However, so far no one has said with any surety from their knowledge/experience that ADA requires the developer to accommodate the changes I need. I will try to find out and see where it leads. About the carpets, they have a tile/hardwood upgrade available. So, that is not a problem.

CA has some legal guidelines for Fair Housing that are equal or stronger than the federal guidelines. How are you financing? FHA loans force the builder to make the necessary adaptions and to get them per code. FHA will not allow a closing if the grades, etc are not right. Actually, they will put money is escorol until the builder completes the mandated changes.

I urge you to contact your local DBTAC

[fuentejps]

i went through that exact same thing in ohio when i built my condo 2 yrs ago


I had the same problems recently when I purchased a new home in NJ. I gave the builder a list of modifications that I wanted done, the biggest being the bathroom which was not accessible at all, and asked them to please give me the additional costs for doing them. They told me they would not make any modifications at all. So I said that I would call my attorney and get back to them with my legal rights under ADA compliance. That was all it took, they said tell us what you need done. I told them what I wanted done and they gave me the additional costs.

You have rights, don't let get away with doing nothing, or as little as they possibly can. I even called the township building office because the builder at one point told me the home plan was already approved at the township and could not be changed. It all BS they just don't want to be inconvenienced in any way.

Good luck, and don't give in.

Riz
C-5 incomplete

[Rustyjames]

"I even called the township building office because the builder at one point told me the home plan was already approved at the township and could not be changed. It all BS they just don't want to be inconvenienced in any way."

Actually, once the drawings are approved by the township any changes would have to be resubmitted. When the drawings are approved the builder has to build accordingly.

[vjls]

i got really lucky bought a foreclousre all doors 36" rollinshower i couldn/t belive my eyes
when i went in too master . i ripped up carpet have concrete floors love it

[ChinaDoll]

When you need something done, don't take "no" too easily... squeaky wheel gets the grease... ask, ask, and request, request... you never know which of the people will say "yes".

Good luck.