Having a house built

[Aliya]

I would like urls for ada compliant kitchens and bathroom designs. The house we currently own was built to be fairly accessible but we made a few mistakes such as the roll in shower being a bit cramped. Also this house was built on a concrete slab we planned on having a foundation on the next house guess I will have a ramp in the garage to access the house still thinking on the best option for the front door. Be great if anyone had videos posted so I could get some ideas on the interior design of the house. With this house my upper kitchen cabinets are wasted space no way can I reach those. I just need some ideas.

Thanks

[titanium4motion]

... the roll in shower being a bit cramped. ...How cramped is "being a bit cramped." was it made?

Kitchen cabinet manufacturers should have designs available. Contact each manufacturer as ask for the 'chair accessible kitchen layouts? Also try at Home Depot, Lowes's and such to see if their cabinet departments have designs availables? They can also draw up a design for you in minutes. The two cabinets design people I worked with were able to make 3D drawings of cabinet setups fairly quick.

titanium4motion

[Aliya]

The shower is tiled the man that installed the tile floor said he would give a go at the shower but it doesn't drain well because its not that sloped I guess. This was my first roll in shower so I am not complaining been happy enough with it but since I have a second chance at one I would like more room. The current shower is wide enough for me at 4'6" but its only 36" deep basically it was all the room we could spare in the bathroom.

I will check at lowes this weekend about cabinets.

[cementhead]

Aliya, I just finished a house.It's zero point entry no steps with a full basement.You just have to put a ledge on the inside of the foundation so the garage floor and front stoop are level.Also they make equipment that will lower your wall cabinets down to the counters with a push of a button it's pricey but in the long run worth it.I also have a phone booth type elevator that hides in the floor that doesn't take up any real living space.


Tom

[titanium4motion]

... at 4'6" but its only 36" deep ...Hah! I still have you beat!

My shower floor was 32" X 60" when constructed in 1988. (Anyone any shorter?) They just took the old tub out and poured in a cement bed and tiled it. This was before the ADA when "This looks good about here." was the standard design method for accessibility.

I just made my old roll-in shower into a shower room using the Americans with Disabilities Act Accessibility Guidelines for Buildings and Facilities, ADAAG and Accessible Showers An Installation Guide by NC State University, see attached pdfs. Everything is done except the entry shower door I am waiting for. Turned out excellent!

I have pictures of my kitchen done in 1988 which is quite accessible except for the upper cabinets' middle and tops shelves. I'll hunt them down, scan them and post them.

titanium4motion
credit: US Architectural and Transportation Barriers Compliance Board (Access Board) - ADAAG and NC State University for Accessible Bathrooms An Installation Guide dpfs.

[Aliya]

Well that is almost how I ended up with a roll in shower the area the tub would have been in plus the builder gave us a little extra room by making the closet shorter.

Tom, my husband had thought of digging out for the foundation but was told by a co-worker that it would just hold water so think that made my husband leary of the idea. The building codes state the foundation be no less than three concrete blocks high which I guess is 36" high. Maybe we can talk to the person who will dig the foundation to see it could be below ground level not sure if the inspector would allow it.

We won't start building till July or so just want to make sure things are planned out this time. Thanks for all the info and ideas keep it coming.

[Lazlo]

We in the final phases of building out our new house. We went with a cement slab on purpose, with a couple large closets and space in the garage for storage. One nice feature we added was in-floor heating through the whole house, so the floor supplies uniform radiant heat throughout.

We do have some high cabinets that I'd have a hard time reaching but we'll put infrequently-used things up there. Everything else is accessible, even the tub! I'll post some pictures after we move in.

[sjean423]

There are a lot of threads around here about kitchens and bathrooms. If you use the search option you should be able to find them. They may give you some ideas. Here are a couple I found:

http://sci.rutgers.edu/forum/showthread.php?t=80260&highlight=show+kitchen

http://sci.rutgers.edu/forum/showthread.php?t=70509&highlight=show+bathroom

[Aliya]

Talk to the inspector today and was informed if we have a foundation it has to be 32" above ground level to pass inspection. Going to talk to my husband about having another cement slab. Do many of you have houses on cement slabs? The house we are in now is seven years old we haven't had any problems but if we did have plumbing problems part of the floor would have to be torn out so I can see where foundations are nice. Its just nice not having ramps to enter my home wish I could get around it in the next house.

I never thought to use the search engine here not that familar with this website yet. I loved the tile in the shower from that one url. I tried doing a search for the "show me your bathroom" thread but haven't found it yet.

What height do most of you have for your lower kitchen cabinets? My kitchen sink has a cut out under it and is at 34" high would like the next one to be a bit lower. All my other counter tops are 36" and have a regular stove. I can reach the bottom shelf of my upper cabinets but its a stretch and I have my wheelchair adjusted so I sit high. It would be nice to have the pull down cabinets but really don't think that is something we can afford.

[ala]

We have a slab home. We had it custom built, finished at the beginning of 2007. Slabs are very common here in Florida. You do not have to have your water pipes in the slab; ours are located in the attic. The only pipes we have in our slab are the drain pipes, and if your builder does those right, they should last for the rest of your lives. Also there are many types of plumbing systems and materials available like the Manabloc system, and they are installed overhead in the attic too.

Manabloc uses PEX flexible tubing and the pressure is adjustable individually for each fixture. The water flushes through very quickly, so you don’t have to run the water as long to get the temperature you want.

[trainman]

If possible, walk, or roll, out basements can do the trick. We built in 1993 a single level house with basement that has ground level doors. Every entrance, garage, front door and basement doors, are basically level, just the door jam makes a bump.

I'm a quad, so I don't physically cook and get stuff in/out of cupboards, so no help there.

[sjean423]

I never thought to use the search engine here not that familar with this website yet. I loved the tile in the shower from that one url. I tried doing a search for the "show me your bathroom" thread but haven't found it yet.


http://sci.rutgers.edu/forum/showthread.php?t=59550

(I found this one by clicking on her name, and view public profile. Then I clicked on "all threads started by ...." since I knew she started the thread.)

Also have you seen this thread?

http://sci.rutgers.edu/forum/showthread.php?t=84936&highlight=bathroom

ps .... be careful, once you start searching out old threads, you are lost surfing for a LONG time. LOL!


My counters are half at 34" and half at 36". My sink is lower and I have a drop in range that is 34". The oven is below it, like typical but some people here have side ovens.

(like here: http://sci.rutgers.edu/forum/showthread.php?t=82240&highlight=kitchen )

I can just reach the very front of the bottom shelf of my upper cabinets. We mostly keep stuff here that is either extra/backup or things I would only use if there were more people around anyway. We have a very handy corner cabinet that holds TONS! The shelves are turntables. This picture is from when it was being installed. It eventually will have doors. I like the idea of the moving upper cabinets, but they are too expensive.

[titanium4motion]

Here is a sneek peek of my new renovated roll-in shower to a shower room. I am still waiting on the entry shower door when I begin a new string with the complete shower room finished. These pictures are during the revnotion phase and more has been added since they were taken. It turned out excellent!


titanium4motion

[sjean423]

Okay, I got lost searching here. And I found some stuff I hadn;t found before. KLD posted this link on Tips .... Accessible House (http://www.vet.purdue.edu/cpr/bsd/building.html#bath)

And this thread had a lot of information, and some more links.

http://sci.rutgers.edu/forum/showthread.php?t=28359&highlight=bathroom+sink+shower

And here are 2 more ....

http://sci.rutgers.edu/forum/showthread.php?t=35933&highlight=bathroom+sink+shower

http://sci.rutgers.edu/forum/showthread.php?t=63951&highlight=bathroom+sink+shower

(and the 3st post in that thread has even more links.......)

And I have now officially gotten myself lost here.

[Aliya]

I have never heard of water pipes in the attic but will check it out online. I knew slabs were common in florida but just assumed the plumbing was in the slab.

Nice shower room titanium4motion much better than that tiny roll in shower you mentioned. I like looking at pictures it helps give me ideas.

Thanks for listing all the threads sjean your right I have been lost looking at old threads lol. Checked back to see if anymore response on this post and now I have pictures to look at.

I appreciate all the help and suggestions.

[titanium4motion]

When I post the before pictures you will fall out of your 'chair! The old roll in shower was unaccessible. I don't know why I live with it so long and why I waited until the shower floor cracked and started to leak. It was 1988 when the first roll-in shower was constructed. Back then no one had guidelines to follow like today.

The shower room is not done yet.

titanium4motion

[lyndy30]

bought a smaller house after the last child moved out. Had The entire thing re-done(4 yrs ago). As a woman I wanted it all done right for me but still looking good. My biggest problems were my Husband & builder. Pay attention to small details like plugs (height), light switches, ect. Had my front ramp put in the garage. It is a challenge getting it all done but worth it. I have been a para for 31 yrs and this is my easiest house. Now I am working on the gardens:zombie: Good luck & I hope all comes out wonderful

[JAYCUE]

Consider putting in a trench style drain like titanium4motion has in his shower. Definitely worth it.

[Aliya]

Thanks lyndy30 just hope we are not worn out before the house is finished. We are not using a builder and my husband will be doing the wiring so that will save but its going to be time consuming we don't plan on having the house completed for nine months after we break ground but who knows with the building slump it might be sooner.

When I saw titanium4motion's trench type drain I knew that was something I wanted really tired of mopping water after I shower.

I have gotten so many ideas looking at pictures of kitchens and baths on this forum. You guys have some nice homes and the guy (can't recall his name) who has the house with the long concrete ramp down to the water has my dream home. Its a beautiful place but not anything I could ever afford. I would love to live by the water but at least we will have three acres of woods behind us instead of a neighbors house.

I am afraid of forgetting little details that can annoy you once the house is completed and you realize you forgot. Like with this house one of the things that wasn't major but annoying was the outdoor faucets. We just didn't even think of asking the builder to place them near the drive or sidewalk instead it was on the front of the house. Once we landscaped the faucet was behind the bushes so I couldn't water anything out front. Like I said it wasn't major just really annoying when I wanted to water something and my husband wasn't home to turn the water on.

I have thought of light switches, thermostat, remote ceiling fans. I need to make a list.

[sjean423]

Another thought. You want an attached garage, with room to get in your vehicle. So you can get in and out of the car with out worrying about the weather. (We don;t. If it is really nasty, I usually skip the trip).

And I can relate to the fact that it will be time consuming as you will be doing some of the work yourselves.

You will notice that I said my turntable cabinet will have a door ..... my kitchen mods have been over a year in the making. My husband is doing it in his spare time, and there isn;t a lot of that! (To go along with the "spare" money we are using to pay for it, LOL)

[Rustyjames]

I like the trench drain too, however I'm thinking that it'll probably get a little nasty under the grates after a period of time and would have to be periodically cleaned. If the floor is properly pitched to a regular floor drain there should be no need for secondary drainage.

[titanium4motion]

I like the trench drain too, however I'm thinking that it'll probably get a little nasty under the grates after a period of time and would have to be periodically cleaned. If the floor is properly pitched to a regular floor drain there should be no need for secondary drainage.Actually there are two trench drains in the shower room. Most of the water goes down the drain under neath me while I shower. The drain with the bright chrome grille. The trench drains just catch the over run water and the floor is complete flat zero degees. The other trench drain next to the wall has no grate on it which is nice. There is no nasty crud that settles in the drain just soapy water. Plus I clean my night bottle and leg bag with Clorox in the shower and that should clean the drains too. See attached photos.

I am in the process of getting the plastic grate made into stainless steel brushed finished with the holes going length wise to the drain.


titanium4motion

[Aliya]

I never noticed there was two trench drains till you pointed it out. I just know I don't want the water overflow like I have now.

We met with the house desinger today to look at her first draft of the floor plan we need to make several changes. Plus I wanted lots of windows but she put windows where it makes no sense. Plus I don't like the layout of the bathroom. Also need to check the building codes on windows for this area she has 3' x 6' in most rooms which she said would be eight inches from the floor not sure if that has to be tempered or not. There is also something about if the bottom sash is 9 sq ft or over it has to be tempered glass. She screened in the back covered porch which I liked.

Sjean my husband wanted to build our cabinets, woodworking is one of his hobbies, but since I want the cabinets in this lifetime and he has little spare time think we will have to buy. I can't decide on what I want to do with the dishwasher, ADA one that is not as tall, have it raised or have one of those drawer type dishwashers. Right now my kitchen sink is 34" height and the dishwasher counter is 36" tall and I can reach it just fine.

[sjean423]

My sink is lowered, and my dishwasher isn't. It is right next to the sink, (the one that was already there, not anything special) and starts a short stretch of higher counter tops, so that others aren;t limited to only lower ones. I think you can see it in the picture I posted earlier, and the one below, altho that one is before the dishwasher was in place. It works fine, I have no trouble loading or unloading. The drawer ones are expensive, although I did like them.

Be sure you put in a shallow sink, so that you can still roll under, even with the lower counter. Washing up sideways isn;t fun! I had to search a bit to find one.

One thing I don;t have, and would like if my kitchen were bigger is a stretch of counter I can roll under. All of my counters have cabinets (or dishwashers ....) underneath. I do have a cutting board I can put over the sink that gives me extra room to work. Before I had a pullout cutting board that I used. I would like to have that back. (Some of the other kitchens I have seen had pullout counters as well)

And I hear you on the cabinets.... get back to me in a few years, and see if I have doors yet!

Another thing he is doing for my cabinets is pull out shelves. I'm not sure what you can tell from this picture. These shelves are actually more like drawers, with drawer fronts, and no sides. There are 4 shelves there now too. A 2nd shallow one right under the top one. It works really well. (One of the benefits of having no fronts at first. ONce I started using them, we realized there was a lot of wasted space above the middle shelf, and he was able to put another one in with out having to tear anything out. All my pans and such are over there. (Among other stuff)


eta ..... strange perspective to this picture .... my cabinets are actually square, not tilted.. LOL!

[Aliya]

Well I checked the prices of the drawer type dishwashers online don't think I will be getting one of those they are expensive. Going with what I have now and like you have the lowered sink and the regular height cabinet where the dishwasher goes. I really like those pull out shelves your husband made they are nice. Right now I have a lower cabinet of drawers they are handy also.

Before we had this house I always had to wash dishes sideways its not fun. In fact this was my first dishwasher. Also cook sideways I want a stove top I can roll under also. I am hoping to have enough counter space to have a place to roll under to prepare things right now I have to use the kitchen table. Figured if I have the stove top and sink in the same area but with a counter to roll under inbetween the two that area can all be 34" and step up right past the sink for the dishwasher.

We could have a race see if we get our house built first or you get your cabinet doors first!

[aviator]

If you can afford the dishwashers, try two small drawer dishwashers. Keep the clean dishes in one and the dirty dishes in the other. You save lots of time and effort putting them into the cabinets. No plumbing in the attic in Tennessee, winters are too cold.

[sjean423]

I want a stove top I can roll under also. I am hoping to have enough counter space to have a place to roll under to prepare things right now I have to use the kitchen table. Figured if I have the stove top and sink in the same area but with a counter to roll under inbetween the two that area can all be 34" and step up right past the sink for the dishwasher.

We could have a race see if we get our house built first or you get your cabinet doors first!
I went with a regular drop in range. We didn't have the space for a roll under range top, and then an oven. But it is just a renovation. Mine is lowered, and has front controls. But that counter space betw the stove and sink sounds nice.

lol on the race.

Aviator .... I like that rotating dishwasher space idea! It would save a lot of time.

[amarillogal]

Here's some more stuff to consider when building a house:

Make sure the ceiling in the garage is high enough so you can fit any type of vehicle in it (like a full size van or a truck with a lift in the back).

I went and measured the outlets/and light switches in the house-the bottom of the plug-ins and telephone jack covers are at 15'' or so above the carpet and the bottom of light switch plate hits about 39'' above the floor.

Another thing I found out my mistake is to put in good quality windows that you can open easily if you want to. Like you, I wanted a bunch of windows in the house. It's so nice to open them all up and air out the house on a pretty day. We ended up replacing all but one of the windows in our house this past winter (yup it was really cold while they were working on it) because they were so drafty and I could not open them very well. We put in casement windows that open with a crank at the bottom of the window. I hope the wind isn't as big as an issue for you as it is for me. I live in a subdivision that sits outside of town with very little around it for a wind break. So when we get a day like we had yesterday, top wind gust of 47 mph or like the thunderstorm a little over a week ago with winds around 70 mph, windows with a good seal are essential.


We did a slab foundation also. Since I live in tornado alley, I also had a tornado safe room built into the house so i'll have a place to go hide if another tornado comes near the house again.


Let's not forget this post too: http://sci.rutgers.edu/forum/showthread.php?t=99156

I love my kitchen, but I still had kitchen envy when I saw his!!


Here's a few pics of my kitchen for some more ideas. I love to cook and of course when people come over for supper, everyone wants to be in the kitchen too, so the extra space is helpful. The counter between the stove and the sink gives me a great work area, but also allows me to slide large pots full of hot stuff over to the sink without having to worry about getting burned.

[lyndy30]

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Here are some pics of the Kitchen & bath just done.All my cabinets are lowered (Home Depot). I also have pull out cutting boards on each side to chop or lay pots on. My shower is built in with lots of room. I like the vanity instead of the pedestal sink because I have stuff. Hope this helps as the pics are not that good.

[Aliya]

Thanks for posting the picutes really gives me some ideas on how I want mine. I really want a cutting board under my oven probably something I would never have thought of. I have thought of the light switches and thermostat since my husband will be doing the electrics that won't be a problem. I really like how the shower has the opening on the corner think that looks nice. All of you have nice kitcens and baths.

As for the tornado room right now I use my roll in shower not sure if that is a good idea and I do get tired of sitting in there till the storm passes lol.

[sjean423]

I like the curtains under the sinks. Mine is waiting for a false back (time frame for that Aliya?). And I really like how the pull-out cutting board is behind a false drawer front.

And it looks like the step up to the regular size dishwasher is typical.

[Aliya]

sjean, I predict you will have your false back by thanksgiving :) Think the blueprints for the house will be ready by the end of the week. Starting to get excited. I have loved looking at the pictures of all your homes. Lot of useful info on this forum.

[spinky88]

i built my house a little over 5 years ago and at the time i was the bookkeeper for the contractor, so he really did a lot of research to try to find things that worked.

just a few things he did....

i too have the pull out shelves in my kitchen. they make it so much easier. i wanted the top to bottom revolving cabinets for the upper ones but they were way too pricey so i keep items there that i dont often need.

we installed a maytag gemini range. it is not a hc accessible unit but it works well for me. it has two ovens, one is a normal oven size, but it has a small oven on top...it is the size of the drawer on a normal oven but at the top instead of down on the floor. this works well for me for everyday cooking and if we cook something like a turkey or ham the guys put it in the large oven on the bottom. you can see it here....

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp;jsessionid=H0SBMGF0C30DDKC4D3PFAFI?sku Id=8610719&type=product&id=1192233009353


we used special handicap seals for all of the doorways which makes it much easier to get in and out of the house. and, he put in wheelchair hinges on the entrance doors which are offset and get the door out of the way.

we also put in 40" doors throughout the house which is sooooooo much better than normal doors.

our house has a normal foundation but no stairs. the contractor just put in a gentle slope for the sidewalk to follow that drains away from the house so there are no water issues. no one would ever look at this house and realize it is handicapped accessible. the way it is done looks stylish and "normal".

we also put in french doors with the hc seals as sliders would not support the weight of my motorized chair.

our deck has ramps going off of each side for easy access to all parts of the yard.

the one major bit of advice i would offer is for you to be onsight with every advance so that they can let you try out the area before it is actually built. for example, our plans were supposed to be hc plans, but when they framed up the bathroom and took me in, we found out that the turning radius was not sufficient. also, the layout did not allow for a transfer from chair to the toilet. so by having me onsight, he could take a chalk and draw in all of the fixtures and let me try it out before anything was installed or built. this was invaluable in the construction. we spent one entire day drawing out the bathroom and then scrubbing it out and starting over to make it easily accessible.

the same thing happened in the kitchen. the layout just did not flow. for example, the way the plans were drawn, when i got something out of the fridge, i had no where to put it down while i closed the fridge and turned. so we spent another entire day with him drawing in different lay outs and letting me try them. when they didnt work, he just scrubbed out the chalk and we tried again.

our ceiling fans have switches on the wall along with the light switches. there is a slider along the side of the switch that allows me to control the fan speed. i had never seen those but they are wonderful.

also, instead of door knobs, we have levers. that way i can open the door with my fist and not have to try to grip a knob and turn it. we found these at lowes and they were no more expensive than regular knobs. they even come in 3 or 4 finishes.

the previous advice about the garage is good. our garage had to be enlarged after it was framed up in order to accomodate my big vehicle.

once our subfloor was down, the contractor brought me in and we tried different turns and whatever to make sure all was well before any further building. this cut down on a lot of waste of materials and labor for having to redo things that didnt work.

our floor plan is open with a lot of archways. our only real doors are on bathrooms and bedrooms. everything else is wide archways.

i am sure there are a lot of other things, but these are the ones that popped into my mind. after 5 years, all of these things just seem routine. i dont think anyone who walked into my house would even realize it was hc accessible if they didnt see the kitchen sink open underneath and also my vanity in the master bath. that is they only obvious accomodation in the house.

i hope you will enjoy the building process and that your end result will be a home that you will enjoy for years to come.

[Aliya]

Thanks spinky88, I have never seen that type of range before wish I had one now I hate heating the large oven when I just want to make cookies, etc. I really want a wall oven and a range top I can get under pretty sure we will have enough counter space to accomadate all the appliances. We are only having doors on the bedrooms and baths oh and the laundry room but on our bedroom, bath and the laundry room we had planned on pocket doors.

Is your garage level with your house? We had planned on raising the garage a few blocks (blocks are expensive though so we will see) so there wouldn't be a really steep ramp from the garage to the house. Our land is fairly level but the man that will dig the foundation said we could slope the land like your talking about that way its just a gentle incline from the drive to the front door.

I have never heard of the seals for the doorways guess I should research that. I have already thought of remotes or the light switch type fan control we already have one of those in this house and they are nice.

you were lucky to be working for a contractor that did so much research when we had this house built the builder didn't know much about wheelchair access but he did work with us to a degree. The cabinet shop that supplied our cabinets are the ones that told me about the higher kick plate under the lower cabinets I didn't have a clue as to those being available. He is also the one that told me about having the sink open but I want a false back on the next one I don't like looking at the pipes. In our bathroom we just have a pedestal sink this new home I want a vanity so I can have room to sit stuff. I like the looks of pedestal sinks but there is no place for me to sit my things which I hate.

Do you have a picture of the front of your house so I could see how yours was sloped?

We thought our blueprints would be finished this week but now the lady is saying early Monday.

[spinky88]

ok, i got my son to take some pictures, but i am lousy at getting pics onto the forum. i hope this works!!!

also, i wanted to tell you that we considered pocket doors too, but the contractor said they would add considerable cost due to the special construction; in that the doors have to slide into the wall. he said this makes the wiring more tedious as they have to accomodate the pocket. you may want to check and see if this will be true for you so that you may budget accordingly if that is indeed accurate.

i hope the pics help...if they actually come through! lol

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[Aliya]

Thanks for the pictures and nice landscaping. Hope we can get our home as accessible as the front of yours. As for the pocket doors my husband is going to do our electrical work so that should be okay as far as construction will have to check with the framer I guess.

[lyndy30]

I love your house & landscaping. We have all oopen space too with wide archways. No more crashing into walls! We went to a smaller house because the kids are on their own (i just moved back/temp) because it is less to keep up and clean. The blocks in under the garage are better you don't evenneed a ramp. I have a cememt circle graduated. A ramp takes up a lot of space. Ib will try to send some pics the contractor took.22830

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[spinky88]

your house and garage seem to be built a lot like ours. i like that garage door! you need to post a pic of your house from the front so we can see!!!

on the inside of our garage, the floor is the same height as the floor inside. i can just roll right into the house from the garage with no need for a ramp.

i hope you will enjoy your new house. i understand what you mean about downsizing...the less to clean the better!

Aliya, i had one more thought for you since you mentioned space in the bathroom. my contractor built a vanity with the roll under sink, but he put drawers down the side as well. i didnt want all of my make up and stuff out on the counter, so he put a shallow built in cabinet in the wall just above the side of the vanity. it is about 4" or so deep and recessed into the wall. it is perfect to hold prescriptions and my make up. the door matches the doors to the cabinet over the toilet and also the closed vanity at my husband's sink. being so shallow, it fit into the wall between the studs.

[Aliya]

I like the garage doors also and they are the kind we want we are going with two seperate garage doors if possible.

Good idea with the cabinet spinky88. So guess its similar to how medicine cabinets are recessed. All I know I do want a vanity this time no more pedestal sink.

[Tiger Racing]

i got my son to take some pictures, but i am lousy at getting pics onto the forum. i hope this works!!!
What a lovely yard you have!

C.

[spinky88]

thank you. the guys have worked hard, and i sure do enjoy sitting out looking at it.