need advice dealing with my HOA

[JenJen]

I want to run this by you before I react. I own a home in a community governed by an HOA. If you're unfamiliar with Home Owner Associations, they can govern everything from the color of your home to what is planted in the yard to how many cars can be on your property. Their main purpose to maintain home values.

The CC&Rs forbid street parking. I am a full-time wheel chair user. My shoulders have aged from pushing and now I find the slope too steep when my tires and ramp are on the same grade (parked in my driveway). However, when I park at the curb, those couple of inches makes for a level ramp entry into my van. This makes the difference between me being able to safely and independently enter my van.

There is also a history of my next-door neighbor (he's the HOA VP)
telling me that "we don't want your kind here." I had problems with
the HOA when I first moved in and went to the property manager and
the full Board for a variance.

Now there have been changes in the Board and in the management
company and I have received a parking notice. I made a phone call
and had a cordial conversation with property manager's assistant.
Now they have sent me another variance form and tell me they
are "confident that we can resolve this." I started off thinking
this was an ADA issue but since it is a residential area is this an
FHA matter? Should they be able continually require me request
variances? I own the property. I also want to make sure I clean
this up for anyone else with a d/a who moves in behind me.

When I received this most recent notice I sent the property manager photos of me struggling up the ramp on level grade and the level entry when the van was at curbside.

Following is a letter that I've drafted to the property manager. I want to firmly settle this matter once and for all without being a total b**ch.


TIA
Jen

************ ********* ********* *****

Vicki,

In an effort to be a good neighbor, I have already completed this
form. This matter has previously been resolved with the Board.

Let me be clear, I am NOT asking permission. I am explaining why the
HOA needs to stop harassing me to avoid a law suit for disability
discrimination.

I realize that you are coming into this in the middle. However, I am
not responsible if the HOA files are incomplete or unclear on this
matter. I do not intend to revisit this matter every time there is a
change in the HOA or management company.

This is a matter for you to review with the HOA's attorney, not a
voting matter for the Board.

Here are the facts:

I legally reside at XXX W. My street.

I am legally disabled as defined by the Americans with Disabilities
Act (ADA).

The ADA is a Federal law that cannot be abridged or limited by any
State or local law or ordinance.

I require this reasonable accommodation to ensure my safety.

I look forward to hearing from you that this matter is indeed closed
once and for all.


Regards,

[dan_nc]

AFAIK, ADA regulates public accomodations and commercial facilities, whereas Fair Housing and related are what will help you deal with your residential issue.

http://www.hud.gov/offices/fheo/disabilities/pwd.cfm

[SCI-Nurse]

You may have to get your own attorney if they get snotty about this, but there is a very specific law in CA regarding ADA type modifications in HOAs, and essentially it says that the board cannot prevent modifications, even on common areas, except to approve the cosmetic aspects. So for example, they cannot tell you that you cannot put in a ramp, but they could specify the color it is painted. When I was on our HOA BOD we received training and materials about this from our management company...but I have since discarded the information since I sold my condo and bought a house with no HOA.

You would of course need to present a proposal to your HOA BOD first (not to the property manager), and then if they turn you down, seek help. Your local ILC may also have information about this. This page may get you the law you need to quote (I don't have time to look): http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/ENVI/ada.html

(KLD)

[PeanutsLucy]

Good luck.

I hate HOAs. Knock on wood, so far ours hasn't given us any grief about the ramp we built out front.

Hang in there.

[ancientgimp]

My wife's sister had a park model in an RV 55 plus park in Florida. They introduced us to a para who lived there who was at the time embroiled in a lawsuit with the HOA (park had gone condo). The lawsuit was over the ramp which the HOA objected to. It wrapped around the entire park model to be long enough to get the correct pitch. He also had built a small deck at the top of the ramp to allow a stopping place at the top of ramp by door (ADA requirement for ramps at doors). The HOA objected to length of ramp and deck at top. He wound up winning the lawsuit and the settlement totaled several hundred thousand in damages, obviously some of this had to be for pain and suffering as he lived in his modified park model the whole time the litigation continued.

[Tom]

At the risk of derailing this thread, I'd like to wonder if JenJen couldn't simply withdraw from the HOA and do whatever she wanted? What legal precedent if any forces a private homeowner beholden to a separate entity like an HOA without the option to withdraw? If I had someone tell me I couldn't take steps to improve accessibility in my own home I'd tell 'em to buzz off, and enforce it with a shotgun. Good grief. It's not unreasonable to expect to keep a nice clean and neat property, but once you start getting anal-retentive about the smallest details, that's just merely infuriating and I'd tell some folks to go pound sand.

Sure hope it works out for ya, Jen!

Tom

[SCI-Nurse]

There is no way to "withdraw" from a HOA in CA unless you sell your property and move out. If you buy into a planned community that has a HOA you have no options but to comply with their CC&Rs and are subject (within the law) to decisions of the BOD. If you do not, they can fine you and even put a lien on your property until you pay the fine(s). Newer laws do mandate that they participate in mediation if you request this, which is what I would recommend in this case if necessary.

This is one reason I finally sold my condo and moved into a private home after 23 years, and would never again consider being in any type of housing that requires me to be at the mercy of a BOD again (even though they do take care of a lot of the maintenance in the building and grounds). You know what the rules are going into a HOA as they are required to provide them to you prior to closing.

(KLD)

[skippy13]

I'm so lucky. The condo I live in has a HOA also. When I got out of the hospital last january they offered to put in a wheelchair ramp for me at their expense. That way it would meet their standards and be within their rules for appearance and construction. They have been going out of their way to be accommodating to me even letting me park in a visitors spot that is more accessible. There are a lot of us old geezers living here, so that has an influence on the rules, I'm sure.

[bob clark]

There is no way to "withdraw" from a HOA in CA unless you sell your property and move out. If you buy into a planned community that has a HOA you have no options but to comply with their CC&Rs and are subject (within the law) to decisions of the BOD. If you do not, they can fine you and even put a lien on your property until you pay the fine(s). Newer laws do mandate that they participate in mediation if you request this, which is what I would recommend in this case if necessary.

This is one reason I finally sold my condo and moved into a private home after 23 years, and would never again consider being in any type of housing that requires me to be at the mercy of a BOD again (even though they do take care of a lot of the maintenance in the building and grounds). You know what the rules are going into a HOA as they are required to provide them to you prior to closing.

(KLD)

I'm glad to see the words in parentheses (within the law) are written. We should know what the rules are going in, but life is full of speed bumps and contracts full of small print. Must be that very fine print. Keep your lawyer attached as though a conjoined twin. No disrespect to conjoined twins intended. Yeah, I know, they aren't their speed bumps... yet. If they're dead set against you parking where you need to park for health reasons and aren't required to follow the guidelines of the ADA or any other possible applicable disability laws and they refuse to help you remedy the problem with comity, then let them buy you out at top dollar. Screw 'em, buy a nice house in the countryside with the proceeds and pocket some cash.

If that's not a plausable option, or if it fails, then as KLD recommends, participate in the "mediation process". Sounds like the cards are stacked against you going in though. Of course you don't have better, more pleasant things to do, such as going to the doctor or to the hospital.

I feel like cursing but I won't... I'm more gentlemanly and compassionate than that.

But I have become a bit jaded over the years reading about the uncaring nature of a lot of our society/country. Little houses, on a hillside, all alike. Little people, in a society, all alike. But unlike houses, some people can't be renovated.

Bob.

[cass]

I owned a home in Rancho Bernardo, CA in a HOA. You are bound when you buy the property to be in the HOA. It is in all your realty paperwork. KLD is right. You cannot withdraw from it. That's the point. And they are not obligated to buy you out. You sign up to it when you buy the house.

However, I wonder if the local PD could help. In Cerritos, all street parking was banned where I lived. However, my van was allowed because of dis plates/placard. I bet that would trump the HOA and encourage you to talk to your local Chief of Police.

I know in CA, they have spec. marked an hc spot in front of a dis person's house. Let the HOA try to fight that.

[lynnifer]

I think your letter is direct and to the point - excellent! I hope they stop harassing you. I love the convenience of my condo but hate the rules and no private yard.

[bob clark]

Hi JenJen,

If you could afford it and the HOA would agree, perhaps you could have a slab of concrete poured where your van's ramp comes to rest in your driveway. And have it nicely landscaped so it's not a potential eyesore to the HOA. That would get you closer to your front door to help with your aching shoulders by keeping you from having to wheel all the way up your rather steep driveway.

And that would also help protect your van from someone possibly crashing into it while it's parked in the street. Or from being vandalized by vindictive neighbors.

Just a thought.

Bob.

[dan_nc]

At the risk of derailing this thread, I'd like to wonder if JenJen couldn't simply withdraw from the HOA and do whatever she wanted? What legal precedent if any forces a private homeowner beholden to a separate entity like an HOA without the option to withdraw? If I had someone tell me I couldn't take steps to improve accessibility in my own home I'd tell 'em to buzz off, and enforce it with a shotgun. Good grief. It's not unreasonable to expect to keep a nice clean and neat property, but once you start getting anal-retentive about the smallest details, that's just merely infuriating and I'd tell some folks to go pound sand.


I, too, own a house (single family unattached) in a development that is part of a homeowners association. I'd guess that over 70% of the homes in my town are subject to restrictive covenants and belong to a HOA. If you don't like it, you can choose to live in another town.

Membership to the HOA is part of the deed restrictions on the property. You buy into the HOA when you purchase the home and the only way to leave the HOA is to sell your property.

The HOA can set dues, fines and assessments. They have the power to place lien on your property if they don't approve the color of your home, the style of your exterior home modifications/ramps, the style of your mailbox, unauthorized trees, shrubs or type of grass, if you don't water your lawn or properly maintain your landscaping. These are more restrictive than municipal zoning ordinances. They are not obliged to "buy you out." If you do not comply, HOA can charge a fine for each day that you are out of compliance and the HOA can even foreclose on your property and eject you from your residence.

[bob clark]

I, too, own a house (single family unattached) in a development that is part of a homeowners association. I'd guess that over 70% of the homes in my town are subject to restrictive covenants and belong to a HOA. If you don't like it, you can choose to live in another town.

Membership to the HOA is part of the deed restrictions on the property. You buy into the HOA when you purchase the home and the only way to leave the HOA is to sell your property.

The HOA can set dues, fines and assessments. They have the power to place lien on your property if they don't approve the color of your home, the style of your exterior home modifications/ramps, the style of your mailbox, unauthorized trees, shrubs or type of grass, if you don't water your lawn or properly maintain your landscaping. These are more restrictive than municipal zoning ordinances. They are not obliged to "buy you out." If you do not comply, HOA can charge a fine for each day that you are out of compliance and the HOA can even foreclose on your property and eject you from your residence.

Hi Dan,

My elderly mother (78) lives in a senior's gated community. You have to be at least 50 years old to live there. You can be younger but can only stay there/visit for a maximum of 2 weeks at a time. They have a guardhouse and a little gate that lifts up to allow you to pass after the proper authorization is received or you have a pass affixed to your windshield. And she's forced to use their landscaping and pest control companies, etc. It's okay by her.

I don't live in a such a place but there are certain rules that I have to live by here. As I suppose is true in most residential areas though I am kinda rural. The only rule that I'm familiar with here pertains to the type and heigth of fencing allowed though I'm sure there are others. But nothing like the HOA that JenJen and my mother are subject to.

If you don't like it, you can choose to live in another town.

Don't they take into consideration that a person may become disabled, due to no fault of their own, after they purchase their house so may need a "variance" accorded them?

Or do you get the boot as soon as you no longer fit their pre-defined mold?

And as far as selling a house goes. You may have bought the house when it was a seller's market and then and again, due to no fault of your own, be forced to sell it in a buyer's market or depressed real estate market like we find ourselves in now. What, you're supposed to take a possible 50% loss on your investment or totally lose your house due to fines and assessments because you can't find a buyer in time?

I'm not doubting your facts but it doesn't seem fair to me. Especially in light of the recent "enlightenment" era brought about by the ADA and other state and local disability rights laws recently enacted around the country.

Bob.

[dan_nc]

Don't they take into consideration that a person may become disabled, due to no fault of their own, after they purchase their house so may need a "variance" accorded them?

Or do you get the boot as soon as you no longer fit their pre-defined mold?

You're allowed to be disabled. You're even allowed to make home modifications. They can dictate the style and type of modifications (e.g. ramps might be required to be in the back of the home or access through the garage instead of the front and they might have to match the architecture of the community).

You don't get the boot; I mean, you still "own" the house/townhouse/condo. But the board can choose to make it uncomfortable for you to live there and hope you choose to live elsewhere. Other boards might be very accommodating.

There's also a wide range of HOAs in my town -- you can live in one that is more lax/less nitpicky or choose to live in one that is extremely strict and cookie-cutter. But most neighborhoods are organized into developments governed by a HOA. At least in my town, these developments exist to pay for the common areas on the grounds, so that those costs aren't passed onto the local government.

[bob clark]

You're allowed to be disabled.

Hmm, I don't know whether to say "Thank the Lord" or "Damn the Lord"! :)

Thanks for explaining some of the HOA rules and regulations. I've heard of such community governing bodies before but never took enough interest to learn about them. But count me out... I'm an American or more precisely, a US citizen, land of the free and all that garbage.

Bob.

[JenJen]

Thanks all. Dan's link gave me what I needed. I sent a final version of the letter in my OP earlier. The issue is now when my wheels and my ramp are on the same level, that incline is getting steep. Honestly, part if it could be that I'm still weak from being so sick. I'm supposed to start a few sessions of PT soon.

Plus, when I clench for the effort to go up, I spasm backward and try to flip out of the chair. I'd like to avoid that if at all possible.

When I park at the curb, the wheels are down about 5 inches so once the van kneels, the ramp "bridges" the curb more like a draw bridge than a ramp. That way my entry into the van is almost level and sooooo much easier than pushing upward.

FTR, I was disabled when I bought this house. The only thing that has changed is my ability to push up my ramp.

I sent pictures to the HOA documenting my problem. Seriously, if it comes down to it, I'll end up in Court at some point and once a judges sees the issue, I'll get the necessary accommodation. I hope this goes the easier route instead.

So, for anyone who may need to adapt it, here's the final letter I sent to my property manager.

Vicki,


In an effort to be a good neighbor, I have already completed this form. Perhaps it was wrong to have done so because it created an impression that it was acceptable for the HOA to attempt to abridge the rights of people with disabilities. Nonetheless, this matter has previously been resolved with the Board.


I will not complete this variance form again. I am NOT asking permission. I am, once again, making the HOA aware of my need for a reasonable accommodation.


I realize that you are coming into this in the middle. However, I am not responsible if the HOA files are incomplete or unclear on this matter. I do not intend to revisit this matter every time there is a change with in the HOA or management company.


This is a matter for you to review with the HOA's attorney regarding an understanding of the applicable Federal statutes. It is not a voting matter for the Board.


Here are the facts:

I legally reside at xxx

I am legally disabled as defined by the Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA) and the Fair Housing Act.

The ADA and Fair Housing Act are Federal laws that cannot be abridged or limited by any State or local law or ordinance.

The Fair Housing Act specifically makes it unlawful for any person to refuse "to make reasonable accommodations in rules, policies, practices, or services, when such accommodations may be necessary to afford ... person(s) [with disabilities] equal opportunity to use and enjoy a dwelling."

There is an identifiable relationship, or nexus, between the requested accommodation and my disability.

Courts have treated requests for parking spaces as requests for a reasonable accommodation and have placed the responsibility for providing the parking space on the housing provider, even if provision of an accessible or assigned parking space results in some cost to the provider. For example, courts have required a housing provider to provide an assigned space even though the housing provider had a policy of not assigning parking spaces or had a waiting list for available parking. However, housing providers may not require persons with disabilities to pay extra fees as a condition of receiving accessible parking spaces.

Providing a parking accommodation could include creating signage, repainting markings, redistributing spaces, or creating curb cuts. This list is not exhaustive.

I require this reasonable accommodation to ensure my safety and continued use of my property.
If you require, I can have my attorney provide a copy of the Fair Housing Act for your review.


At your first convenience, I would appreciate a letter for my files stating that this issue is resolved.


Thank you,

[dan_nc]

The text of the Fair Housing Act of 1968.

http://www.usdoj.gov/crt/housing/title8.htm

[Broknwing]

You're allowed to be disabled. You're even allowed to make home modifications. They can dictate the style and type of modifications (e.g. ramps might be required to be in the back of the home or access through the garage instead of the front and they might have to match the architecture of the community).

Actually, if you remember the battles that Ami went through with her HOA, she learned that they CAN NOT force you to have your primary/only access through the back/side/garage for their aesthetics...She had a huge battle quite a while back but I was pretty sure she got it all straightened out....

[dan_nc]

Actually, if you remember the battles that Ami went through with her HOA, she learned that they CAN NOT force you to have your primary/only access through the back/side/garage for their aesthetics...She had a huge battle quite a while back but I was pretty sure she got it all straightened out....

IIRC, she had her lawyer draft a letter to her HOA and her particular HOA backed down.

HOAs here in NC do have the right to regulate the look and placement of ramps. One of my neighbors had built ramps in front of their home because of their child with severe disability. The HOA forced the neighbor to take down the ramp (at cost to the homeowner) and build a new ramp inside their garage.

[Sue Pendleton]

However, I wonder if the local PD could help. In Cerritos, all street parking was banned where I lived. However, my van was allowed because of dis plates/placard. I bet that would trump the HOA and encourage you to talk to your local Chief of Police.

I know in CA, they have spec. marked an hc spot in front of a dis person's house. Let the HOA try to fight that.

The same goes in several areas in Maryland. In Baltimore City where street parking is legal you can get a specific 'resident only' parking sign in front of your home if disabled.

[JenJen]

Just got a letter from the property manager for my HOA. She'll be sending a permanent parking permit. She doesn't understand why this was not done previously and thanks me for my patience. LOL

[sjean423]

Finally someone who uses their brain, and doesn;t sit on it!

Glad to hear.

[dan_nc]

Just got a letter from the property manager for my HOA. She'll be sending a permanent parking permit. She doesn't understand why this was not done previously and thanks me for my patience. LOL

Beautiful and congrats, Jenjen!

[cass]

the beauty of a well written and informed letter! good job.

[HOAHomeowner]

Wanted to get an opinion. I have back and knee problems and had several surgeries. I am fortunate in that I can do some light work around the house. But no bending at the knees, or any lifting over 20#. However I am limited on how long I can be on my feet per day (About 2-hours per day) and have to take several long breaks off my feet completely between each work period. I have a utility trailer which is not allowed by HOA rules to be "parked" at the house but it is okay if its "in use". I try to be productive and do something around the house daily. Mostly light cleaning up, weeding, and some painting, putting up blinds, etc. We have just moved a few months ago and are going through boxes, putting up blinds, we had yard debris left by the previous owners in the yard to clean up. Due to my condition it take several days where most people to do do these jobs 4-5 hours. During the process I use the trailer for hauling and have to get help with the heavy items. But as soon as the trailer is disconnected from tow vehicle the HOA automatically considers it "parked" and fines me. Even if I could move the trailer back and forth to storage, it would decreases the time I can actually work on the property. But this wouldn't help either because I can't keep the trailer attach to the vehicle for 10-12 hours every day since my wife uses it for work, so I'd get fined anyway. I either am not allowed maintain the property which is a fine in itself, or not allowed to have the tools (in this case the trailer) on the property necessary to complete the job to avoid the fine. This is a temporary thing but there will be other projects in the future. How do I find something workable where I don't get fined for not maintaining the property or for the parked trailer and still be productive. If I wasn't disabled this wouldn't be an issue.